Baltiless - Des Moines. Your advice please

[Ferry_25]

OK, I'm suffering through the Baltimore now. Actually: the last USN cruiser I liked was the St Louis... Granted: Cleveland was 1000% better: "meh, not entirely the piece of crap I am used to. But that's it." In every cruiser I thought: the next 1 will be better! I had the absolute best match ever in my Baltiless today. Loss of course. 76 hits with demo expert. 2 [edited] fires. actually 2 kills! Oh: point your nose toward the enemy! It is SO hard. Yes it actually is! I only get 4 citadels instead of being 1 shot (getting my out of my misery right away. So if THAT's better?!) when a BB is looking at me funny. No!! The RADAR! you can pinpoint all the DD's that way! Yeah! Like I ever get close enough to the DD's in the first place. No Ferry, it's the AA.... That is so marvelous!! Well... How much CV's have you seen lately (going back to november 2015) in tier 9?? And they don't venture their planes near me anyway.

OK. My point is clear I guess. What's your advice? Should I just give up the USN cruiserline or suffer through this IMO Lepra POS miracle to be afloat at all boat (sorry I can't call this a ship) and get to Des Moines? Or is this on tier 10 the same 9 square big floating citadel, getting 1 shot by any stray shot from a tier 6 DD like the Omaha - Baltiless like I'm used to?? I highly value your advice.

And if you're at it, maybe you could muster up a trick for me in Baltimore... The only way I can figure out is to start a battle and immediately quit again. it has no torps, when I'm in a knife fight with a DD I must make an appointment for next week Friday for my next salvo, my shells are scrathing paint in the most extreme optimistic situation, hit = quadruple cit (again in the most optimistic situation when 1 shell manage to get through the mountain I'm behind). On YT I see this IMO POS as being "such a fantastic boat ingame." It's probably me of course but I don't recognise anything about it... My stats are open for all: you'll see I suck in the B-less in the bottom 3 of all ships.

Or is there anyone who shares my POV??

 

[allufewig]

The worst T9 by far nowadays. It does have extremely little going for it. Theres the AA, but Donskoi beats it at that. Guns? Lolz, its basically Pensa-firepower at T9. You dont even notice that few microscopical buffs to it.
 

Of course, it doesnt matter how bad a ship is, some people will always like and defend it, now matter how hard the evidence (global averages and maximums) contradicts them.
 

Just a word of warning: Des Moines is largely the same as Baltimore (handling, mobility, size, looks, armor etc are very similar), but with more than double the rate of fire. Continue the grind only if you think this change could make the ship fun for you.

[T_H_0_R]

If you can't get Balmer to work, high chance you won't get Des to work either. Des has worse concealment, turns slower and is larger thus easier to hit. I found Balmer to be somewhere in between Des and Pensa / NO as far as maneuverability goes.

 

Now seriously, if the only ship you had fun with was Cleveland - change the bloody cruiser line. After learning how to Pensa and other cruisers that follow her I found Cleveland utterly boring with her OP AA, too good armor and orbital shells.

 

Oh, ans Des loses turrets more than any other ship out there. Wait until you try that feature out.

[Panocek]

As said, Des is pretty much the same ship as Baltimore, only with autoloaded cannons and one of the best AA set ups in game. Trajectory and shell velocity are still bad, but extra RoF gives DM the same "brawling" niche as Cleveland, except its much more difficult to brawl in tier 10 than in tier 6.

 

DM can be fun, it can obliterate destroyers, cruisers and careless battleships at close distances and HEspam till kingdom come, but I'll risk saying every other T10 cruiser beats Des in overall utility, due to having actual cannons, not ballistas.

[Ferry_25]

Thanks. I was expecting these answers but wanted your opinions anyways. I simply can't make the USN cruiserline to function. Highly enjoy the BB and DD lines. As I did the cruisers until Phoenix. And I did not like Cleveland very much. It only raised 1 eyebrow hair only Spock would notice. (-; I'll take your advice to heart: if DM = slower, even MORE visible ship with pokemonball guns and 2 shots per decade instead of 1 Baltimore. It wouldn't be my cup of coffee.

[Turnipsi]

Baltimore feels like it's doing everything right and at least decently, except one thing... And that one thing is the fatal flaw that makes me not like it much: Doing damage.

 

I mean yeah, I've done amazing games in baltimore, but when compared to it's contemporaries of other nations, the guns just don't seem to hold up.

[Poster_2015]

That actually surprises me. Guns on Baltimore I personally rate the best at t9 OVERALL. Other guns have some niches they perform better at, but overall Baltimore guns are just fine. They do have pretty bad trajectories - but not really worse then Ibuki. High distance sniping is indeed harder then Donskoi or Roon, but when you hit, you do more damage in general (if they are perfect broadside even at high range, Roon or DD sure outperform Balti, but if any angling is present, Balti pulls ahead). At brawling Balti guns are by far the best, able to citadel even heavily angled cruisers - where other cruisers have to use HE for any real damage. 

 

Balti indeed could use some RoF buff to the guns - there is no real reason for over twice the ROF gap between Balmer and DM too. But thats mostly because it lacks torpedoes, so I feel guns should be even better at brawling, not because they lack on their own. If Balti had ANY torpedoes, I wouldnt even suggest buffing guns, as it is, I feel if it has only guns they could shoot a bit faster. 

[Sander93]

Better guns than Ibuki and Roon? Are we playing the same game?

 

I managed 107.000 and 105.000 average damage in both. Baltimore? 63.300 rofl. It's a piece of crap. That abomination does not belong at tier 9 in its current state.

[Poster_2015]

Well I managed more damage in Ibuki then Balti as well. But thats not because of guns alone, but the whole ship - thats one. The other is, as experience also indicates is that Balti damage matters more - its usually cruiser citadels, and DDs killed, while ibuki I mostly burned BBs. Fire dmg on BBs doesnt matter that much, its repairable and BBs are just dmg whorin targets in general. It was easy to burn a Yamato in an Ibuki for 130-140k dmg, but killing a Zao and Roon in another game in Balti is more useful even if its only 90k dmg.  

Roon is just great against bad players, which I try to not put too much weight on. if they show broadsides to roon, they die - but good players wont. 

 

Overall looking at my stats I have lowest damage of all t9 in Balti but most experience and most kills out of all of them. It also works much better with aggressive play thats much more efficient then playing safe - its way more efficient to do 60k dmg in 5 mins, die and go to another ship, then to play for 20 mins and 180k . 

[S4h3L]

fastest way to do dmg in Baltimore: ramming enemy BBs - instant 42k dmg + flooding

[Trainspite]

Better guns than Ibuki and Roon? Are we playing the same game?

 

I managed 107.000 and 105.000 average damage in both. Baltimore? 63.300 rofl. It's a piece of crap. That abomination does not belong at tier 9 in its current state.

 

Please don't go down the line that people on NA are suggesting.

 

Which is move Pensacola, New Orleans and Baltimore all down a tier. Based solely on the statistics. Which is a horrible idea.

[gR3iF]

I dont get people that cant play the pensa and then go on in their grind...

 

If one thing is for sure in WOWS: Lines dont differ from ship to ship.... normally strengths and weakness stays the same.

 

For the Baltimore: Get a 15 or more point cpt. Normally it should be 15 by reaching Baltimore. Get Ce and then start to play with a 9.x concealment.

You have the same as an Atago or Zao. Which means: You decide when to fight, you can start shooting or letting it be.

 

Second point: Use AP as your main weapon only rarely switch to HE. American AP can do crazy citadels if you hit the target.

The bounce angles are the best of all cruisers....

 

When you manage this play style on Pensa and NewO then get the Baltimore and be an expert in this. Afterwards you get the DM as reward.

 

AND please dont complain too much about average DMG. DM and Baltimore gets more XP and credits for the same dmg as a Zao or Dimitry and so on.

[Sander93]

AND please dont complain too much about average DMG. DM and Baltimore gets more XP and credits for the same dmg as a Zao or Dimitry and so on.

 

So you want to compare average XP instead? You mean that one statistic that fundamentally can not be used to compare because the modifiers for it differ from ship to ship?

[Poster_2015]

Well it fundamentally is the one you WANT to compare - because grinding ships is about xp not damage. Even at t10 Des Moines is top ship in my book because it gets me most free xp/credits, even though I get better damage/win ratio in Zao. 

[Comrad_StaIin]

the Des Moins is just a Baltimore with better AA and faster RoF so if you dont enjoy the Baltimore you wont enjoy the Des Moins eather

[T_H_0_R]

the Des Moins is just a Baltimore with better AA and faster RoF so if you dont enjoy the Baltimore you wont enjoy the Des Moins eather

 

As I said earlier. If you cannot make Balmer work, high chances are you won't Des either.

 

As for Des being better Baltimore... I have mixed feelings about that. Des has worse concealment, maneuverability and is larger thus easier to hit and loses turrets like no ones business. You trade all that for killer ROF and AA.

 

IMHO I'd give Baltimore tad better ROF and Des concealment and some armor to her turrets. Losing turrets so often is what killed the fun out of that ship for me. But I am digressing now...

[allufewig]

Well it fundamentally is the one you WANT to compare - because grinding ships is about xp not damage. Even at t10 Des Moines is top ship in my book because it gets me most free xp/credits, even though I get better damage/win ratio in Zao.

 

 

Aside from progressing upwards my most important goal is winning as much as possible. And Baltimore is just really bad at that. As it is with doing damage and killing enemies - no surprise.

 

Artificially inflated XP-gains are nice because they make the grind feel a little less horrible than it would normally be. But XP is but probably the worst metric of all when comparing performance, because it is not a ship-neutral stat. Usually people want to compare combat-related strenghts, not grindspeed. After another defeat in a piss-poor ship I do not look at the XP and say "hey that number is really big. Awesome stuff!" Or maybe Im an outlier.

[T_H_0_R]

Dealing damage is one way of winning. Using radar and supporting your DDs is another. 70% WR on my Balmer. Low damage since I focused on killing DDs exclusively.

[Poster_2015]

 

 

Aside from progressing upwards my most important goal is winning as much as possible. And Baltimore is just really bad at that. As it is with doing damage and killing enemies - no surprise.

 

Artificially inflated XP-gains are nice because they make the grind feel a little less horrible than it would normally be. But XP is but probably the worst metric of all when comparing performance, because it is not a ship-neutral stat. Usually people want to compare combat-related strenghts, not grindspeed. After another defeat in a piss-poor ship I do not look at the XP and say "hey that number is really big. Awesome stuff!" Or maybe Im an outlier.I 

 

I actually have highest WR in Dimitri followed by Baltimore followed by Roon and by Ibuki - almost reverse of highest damage. In fact damage is one of the worst metrics, because it just shows your target priority among BB/CA/DDs , not actual contribution. 

[shamelesscreature]

the Des Moins is just a Baltimore with better AA and faster RoF so if you dont enjoy the Baltimore you wont enjoy the Des Moins eather

 

What if lack of DPM is the part you dislike the most about the Baltimore?

 

 

[allufewig]

Dealing damage is one way of winning. Using radar and supporting your DDs is another. 70% WR on my Balmer. Low damage since I focused on killing DDs exclusively.

 

 

It is global stats that counts when comparing performance. Baltimore doesnt win and it doesnt do damage. I have good stats on some crap ships too, but it doesnt change the facts that these underperform.

 

 

Single players stats are usually blurred because of games played, individual experience etc. Devs cant look at T_H_O_R when trying to balance, gthey have to look at the whole playerbase, because when you look at those bigger numbers carefully, they usually dont lie.

[T_H_0_R]

Fully agreed. No one would be more happier if they buff her than me. As mentioned, I'd shave off 2-3s off her reload to boost DPS. Should help some.

[Trainspite]

I would give Balti somewhere in the region of 4.5 to 5 RPM on her gun options, to make her feel a bit more of an upgrade in firepower from New Orleans, and a bit more like an intermediate between NO and DM.

[T_H_0_R]

IIRC she has 4.6 with the last upgrade. 13 second reload compared to 14 on NO. Thus should be buffed to 10-11 seconds IMHO or in the ballpark of +5.5 RPM.

 

Dunno if any of this is historical or not, but I see no point in holding on to historical values when she is battling with fictional T9 cruisers (well except Ibuki, to some extent).

[piritskenyer]

I think 5 RPM would be the very least she should get, after all, she's the CA with the least guns now (tie with Roon, but that one gets better DPM - pöwercreep much?), although 5.5-6 would be better.

 

EDIT: saying that having not played her yet.