Discussion thread for "some interesting info around the world"

[fumtu]

Just now, SparvieroVV said:

I believe they decreased the range of Smolensk's rifles a little bit on the last pass?

 

That was previous changes which also includes buffs to Colbert. From everything I saw Smolensk is just as broken as it was before "nerf".

[Chaos_Umbra]

14 minutes ago, SparvieroVV said:

British aircraft carrier Ark Royal, tier VI:

• Fairey Albacore torpedo bombers replaced by Fairey Swordfish.
  • Aircraft hit points lowered from 1110 to 1070;
  • Aircraft cruise speed increased from 97 to 98 knots.

Fairey Swordfish squadrons are as famous as the Ark Royal aircraft carrier itself. For historical accuracy purposes, the Fairey Albacore torpedo bombers are replaced by Swordfish, which are a bit faster, but with a lower hit points

Best change in that list 

[DFens_666]

Colbert more buffs... what the [edited]are they smoking ?!

Or they are all the time looking at Kolberg stats and wonder why it performs so poorly

[Aotearas]

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Colbert more buffs... what the [edited]are they smoking ?!

Or they are all the time looking at Kolberg stats and wonder why it performs so poorly

That reminds me, gotta play my Emden with an AFT captain to train for those arcs.

[invicta2012]

On 6/20/2019 at 2:54 PM, Crysantos said:

105 mm secondary guns on Tirpitz, Bismarck, Graf Zeppelin and tiers VIII - X German cruisers:

• Armor penetration increased from 17 to 25 mm.

The change will allow 105 mm secondaries of German ships to penetrate the plating of destroyers, battleships and cruisers of tiers VI - VII.

 

Well, that's nice. Doesn't this actually mean that 105 mm German secondaries can now damage Tier VIII, IX and X DDs, so that we now have a German CV whose secondaries are more effective at damaging destroyers than the main battery of a Jutland or Daring?

 

 

[HaachamaShipping]

7 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

 

Well, that's nice. Doesn't this actually mean that 105 mm German secondaries can now damage Tier VIII, IX and X DDs? 

 

 

Yes. With IFHE, they can pen BB hulls too.

[invicta2012]

5 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Yes. With IFHE, they can pen BB hulls too.

That's completely absurd. What are WG smoking at the moment? Secondary guns should not be able to outperform main battery guns, ever, regardless of what ship class or nation is involved.

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, invicta2012 said:

That's completely absurd. What are WG smoking at the moment? 

Why is it absurd? Bismarck/Tirpitz follows in the footsteps of FdG, GK and Gneisenau thus, having secondaries that can directly pen other BBs. Thus, French got fire chance, USN has accuracy, Germans have penetration as their secondary strength.

[invicta2012]

10 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Why is it absurd?

Let's say I take my Tier X RN DD, Daring, sail up to within 1k of another Tier X DD like Gearing, and fire HE shells at it. What will happen? Nothing.

 

1/6 rule means my 113mm main guns can't penetrate Gearing's 19mm plating (113/6 = 18.83, so my shells shatter).

 

If I take a Graf Zeppelin and do the same thing, then I will cause damage. 105mm/4  = 26.25mm penetration. So auto aim, 3 second reload secondaries on a Tier VIII CV out perform the HE main battery of a DD two tiers up. That's absurd. 

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, invicta2012 said:

Let's say I take my Tier X RN DD, Daring, sail up to within 1k of another Tier X DD like Gearing, and fire HE shells at it. What will happen? Nothing.

 

1/6 rule means my 113mm main guns can't penetrate Gearing's 19mm plating (113/6 = 18.83, so my shells shatter).

 

If I take a Graf Zeppelin and do the same thing, then I will cause damage. 105mm/4  = 26.25mm penetration. So my auto aim, 3 second reload secondaries on a Tier VIII CV out perform the HE main battery of a DD two tiers up. That's absurd.

If you die to GZ secondaries, you did something wrong.

 

Also, GZ carries a good few 15 cm guns that already pen the 21(!) mm of Gearing hull plating (as well as BBs, because you know, German).

 

Also, Daring gets a ton of other things, like improved AP bounce angles.

[invicta2012]

1 minute ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

If you die to GZ secondaries, you did something wrong.

Well, let's say I'm trying to torpedo a Tirpitz in a Lightning. My torpedoes go 8k. This means I now have 500m grace before I run into Tirpitz's buffed secondaries (assuming they're stock, otherwise they go out to 9k). The 5.9 inch ones were bad enough, now I have to put up with the pew pew pew from 3s reload 4 inch guns which I was previously immune from before WG decided to surf the secondary wave. What have I done wrong?

 

[Toivia]

4 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Well, let's say I'm trying to torpedo a Tirpitz in a Lightning. My torpedoes go 8k. This means I now have 500m grace before I run into Tirpitz's buffed secondaries (assuming they're stock, otherwise they go out to 9k). The 5.9 inch ones were bad enough, now I have to put up with the pew pew pew from 3s reload 4 inch guns which I was previously immune from before WG decided to surf the secondary wave. What have I done wrong?

 

You got spotted.

 

Also fully upgraded secondaries from german and french BBs and Massa, Georgia go over 11kms.

 

EDIT: I have no explanation for them keeping on buffing Colbert. That is uttery absurd. It's like making a glass cannon and ending up "Well hey, it's kinda like glass, better make it steel or something".

It's otherwise interesting that Somers gets a torp reload nerf and Benham apparently not. They both looked a bit too strong in the torp department.

[HaachamaShipping]

5 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Well, let's say I'm trying to torpedo a Tirpitz in a Lightning. My torpedoes go 8k. This means I now have 500m grace before I run into Tirpitz's buffed secondaries (assuming they're stock, otherwise they go out to 9k). The 5.9 inch ones were bad enough, now I have to put up with the pew pew pew from 3s reload 4 inch guns which I was previously immune from before WG decided to surf the secondary wave. What have I done wrong?

 

Tirpitz has 7.5 km range stock, 11.3 km with all applicable upgrades. Your DD has a concealment of 5.5 km. Secondaries do not fire on unspotted ships.

[invicta2012]

12 minutes ago, Toivia said:

You got spotted.

Destroyers should be permanently unspotted or we're making "a mistake"? Really? At some point in the recent past I recall Destroyers being the class that excelled in a close-range melee, as long as you could do easy stuff like dodge enemy shells, position correctly, land your torps and get out again without dying (in the most fragile class of ship in the game) . Now it seems the best melee choice is a secondary build battleship and falling asleep over your keyboard in a pile of drool. 

 

12 minutes ago, Toivia said:

Also fully upgraded secondaries from german and french BBs and Massa, Georgia go over 11kms.

They do, but I can ignore the 100mm secondaries on a Jean Bart because they don't have the 1/4 pen advantage (the other ones are pretty scary, still).  

 

Overall this is a buff to lazy-[edited]BB captains who can't be bothered to learn how to position themselves or aim their main battery when under attack.

[HaachamaShipping]

2 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Destroyers should be permanently unspotted or we're making "a mistake"? Really? At some point in the recent past I recall Destroyers being the class that excelled in a close-range melee, as long as you could do easy stuff like dodge enemy shells, position correctly, land your torps and get out again without dying (in the most fragile class of ship in the game) . Now it seems the best melee choice is a secondary build battleship and falling asleep over your keyboard in a pile of drool. 

I mean, if you insist on suicide rushing a BB from 8 km while somehow being spotted at that range, and too inept to dodge the secondary shells that still are mostly all over the place, sure, yes, you deserve to get deleted by secondaries.

 

Yolo torp rushes were hardly ever a smart idea and in the few cases where they gave worthwhile results (e.g. by jumping out from behind cover) they still work, because guess what, when you pop up at 3 km from behind an island, secondary build doesn't make the BB magically scarier than they were years ago when Nagato secondary spec was a thing, it might even make it worse, because in the short time people might be slow to ctrl+click your ship.

[LastButterfly]

1 hour ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

to dodge the secondary shells that still are mostly all over the place

 

Unpredictability is the enemy of smart dodging. If it sprays randomly you cannot dodge, you can juste choose a path and get lucky.

[Toivia]

3 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

Destroyers should be permanently unspotted or we're making "a mistake"? Really? At some point in the recent past I recall Destroyers being the class that excelled in a close-range melee, as long as you could do easy stuff like dodge enemy shells, position correctly, land your torps and get out again without dying (in the most fragile class of ship in the game) . Now it seems the best melee choice is a secondary build battleship and falling asleep over your keyboard in a pile of drool. 

 

They do, but I can ignore the 100mm secondaries on a Jean Bart because they don't have the 1/4 pen advantage (the other ones are pretty scary, still).  

 

Overall this is a buff to lazy-[edited]BB captains who can't be bothered to learn how to position themselves or aim their main battery when under attack.

Umm, duh, yeah. Especially if you intend to torp targets.

 

Close range melee is only okay for DDs when fighting other DDs (with some DDs more suitable than others), absolutely not when fighting other classes of ships, that's always been suicide or at the very best a desperate yolo rush.

 

The fact that DDs rely on stealth is precisely why I don't recommend playing them with all the CVs around. Or you know, playing anything overall. Because whatever ship you are, you'll always get spotted if you try anything smart.

[HaachamaShipping]

I notice that the citadel changes on British BBs do not come with accuracy changes.

 

*sad Monarch noises*

[Toivia]

Oh nice, DoY gets some much needed buffs relative to KGV. Finally I'll be less pissed at myself for playing the premium instead of the main line ship.

[invicta2012]

13 hours ago, Toivia said:

Close range melee is only okay for DDs when fighting other DDs (with some DDs more suitable than others), absolutely not when fighting other classes of ships, that's always been suicide or at the very best a desperate yolo rush.

Oh gosh no, the whole raison D'etre of certain DDs is the fact they can one shot anything, including so-called brawling battleships. Or at least it is in the decent Tiers. 

[HaachamaShipping]

41 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Oh gosh no, the whole raison D'etre of certain DDs is the fact they can one shot anything, including so-called brawling battleships. Or at least it is in the decent Tiers. 

Maybe that's why in low tiers secondary builds are a joke and at high tiers, no DD has to rely on yolo rushes to get their job done. Like, the sole DD with stealth torp issues at high tier is the Khabarovsk, which usually however just guns you down from outside secondary range while dodging return fire.

[invicta2012]

12 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Maybe that's why in low tiers secondary builds are a joke and at high tiers, no DD has to rely on yolo rushes to get their job done.

I wasn't really thinking of yolo rushes. In the last game I played I ended up 5k from a Bismarck who was aggressively pushing into a cap that me (Mahan), a Baltimore and Cleveland were trying to take. That Bismarck captain probably hadn't spotted me before he pushed in and thought "Ah, US cruisers, no torps". And he got a nasty surprise. Making moves like that should be high risk, he shouldn't really be getting 16 extra secondaries to use in that situation, because they're not deployed through skilll. If his secondaries save him there - as they might do with the new pen rules - it's just an increase in the effect of RNG on a game.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, invicta2012 said:

I wasn't really thinking of yolo rushes. In the last game I played I ended up 5k from a Bismarck who was aggressively pushing into a cap that me (Mahan), a Baltimore and Cleveland were trying to take. That Bismarck captain probably hadn't spotted me before he pushed in and thought "Ah, US cruisers, no torps". And he got a nasty surprise. Making moves like that should be high risk, he shouldn't really be getting 16 extra secondaries to use in that situation, because they're not deployed through skilll. If his secondaries save him there - as they might do with the new pen rules - it's just an increase in the effect of RNG on a game.

I mean, The secondaries cannot kill a DD fast enough unless the DD is dawdling around or on low hp. Meanwhile, a good Bismarck could survive such an encounter anyway, given Bismarck has hydro and after it dodges the torps, your DD is basically just a minor annoyance.

[fumtu]

3 hours ago, Toivia said:

Oh nice, DoY gets some much needed buffs relative to KGV. Finally I'll be less pissed at myself for playing the premium instead of the main line ship.

 

Not sure if this would be a buff to KGV and DoY. Both those ships have horrid turret angles which means if you want to use all your guns you have to show a lot of broadside which could be then citadeled. If this is not a buff but just change I would prefer if they keep DoY as she is now and change KGV, make them more different.

[Toivia]

2 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

Oh gosh no, the whole raison D'etre of certain DDs is the fact they can one shot anything, including so-called brawling battleships. Or at least it is in the decent Tiers. 

Yeah, that's why no decent player or team will ever allow a DD to get that close and will delete him right as he gets spotted. Hence, DDs that want to torp should never get spotted.

 

EDIT: Wait a sec, what would make brawling BBs any better at surviving DD torp strikes than other BBs? In fact, german BBs have very bad torp protection unlike a number of IJN BBs that are much more long range focused. Also, pretty much every DD not limited to one torp launcher can one shot any similar tier ship if it were to hit all torps. Only some german DDs may have issues with that (cause bad torp alpha and quadrupe torp launchers at most).

23 minutes ago, fumtu said:

 

Not sure if this would be a buff to KGV and DoY. Both those ships have horrid turret angles which means if you want to use all your guns you have to show a lot of broadside which could be then citadeled. If this is not a buff but just change I would prefer if they keep DoY as she is now and change KGV, make them more different.

You misunderstand, I wrote "relative". I mean, DoY is gonna be better off compared to KGV after the changes. They both get the same nerf and same heal buffs. But DoY finally gets back the heal charge it had less than KGV and that I have been missing almost every battle I played with it.

As an aside, I think KGV needed a nerf for a while now. That ship is a monster at T7.