Discussion thread for "some interesting info around the world"

[1MajorKoenig]

20 minutes ago, Comodoro_Allande said:

Closest fit so far is the Zeeland (Holland class). Equipment doesn't fit (especially on the back) , but the hull is almost identical (tried with models of the several refits of the Holland present on Shipbucket, but didn't fit as well as this)

 

Awesome!

[Taliesn]

4 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Correct - which is in WOWS terms super soft. And it is a 100% contradiction to the German shipbuilding philosophy which was always “a ship’S First and foremost task is to stay afloat” no matter the time it was built 

 

Yeah, well, ship for ship and tier for tier in both cruiser and BB lines they are usually the best armored of the lot, so at least comparatively to other countries' ships that still holds true.

That they are not even better protected is just a matter of pure balance.

[Sigimundus]

28 minutes ago, Comodoro_Allande said:

Closest fit so far is the Zeeland (Holland class). Equipment doesn't fit (especially on the back) , but the hull is almost identical (tried with models of the several refits of the Holland present on Shipbucket, but didn't fit as well as this)

So first DD in WoWs without torps? 

[BruceRKF]

3 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Awesome!

You mean the effort to macth the picture to one from ship bucket or WG's idea to put this into the game? The former I find awesome as well (thanks for the effort, Comodoro_Allande), the latter though: Why another post-war ship? The Dutch had some ships during WW2, didn't they? And it would be nice to have some more mid tier ships for a change, since all the foggy pictures seem to be high tier ships. Not exited right now.

 

[fumtu]

2 minutes ago, Sigimundus said:

So first DD in WoWs without torps? 

 

As I mentioned earlier, two ship of the class received 8 533mm torpedo tubes so they could launch British Mk20 torpedo. I guess WG will use this instead of torpedoless destroyer.

[Sigimundus]

4 minutes ago, fumtu said:

 

As I mentioned earlier, two ship of the class received 8 533mm torpedo tubes so they could launch British Mk20 torpedo. I guess WG will use this instead of torpedoless destroyer.

OK this looks more reasonable then torpedo-less DD . . . or it implicates of adding submarines to the game because Holland-class had 2 × quad 357 mm anti-submarine mortars . . .  

[1MajorKoenig]

10 minutes ago, BruceRKF said:

You mean the effort to macth the picture to one from ship bucket or WG's idea to put this into the game? The former I find awesome as well (thanks for the effort, Comodoro_Allande), the latter though: Why another post-war ship? The Dutch had some ships during WW2, didn't they? And it would be nice to have some more mid tier ships for a change, since all the foggy pictures seem to be high tier ships. Not exited right now.

 

 

I admit I really like these early Cold War destroyers with these huge radar antennas. They look amazing to me but are more or less not any more powerful. They tend to have very few very fast firing small guns. Let’s see 

 

Maybe autoloaders....?

[Toivia]

1 hour ago, Taliesn said:

 

A sigma/dispersion somewhere in between the most accurate cruisers and Alaska/Azuma... would be fine.

Armor looks (according to wiki...)  to be slightly thinner than Alaska's, so good but definately not special. Not sure if turtleback would be a thing with this design.

Torps would be similar to Roon's I guess, except 3 per side instead of 4.

 

4 guns firing every 15-18 seconds is hardly crapping on a large amount of cruisers unless of course the cruiser is making a mistake, and that should be punishable in every ship.

 

 

Not sure about the turtleback in this case, so can't comment. Now honestly, in which cruisers do you really go roaming around showing all or most of your side in order to shoot with all your guns? That's a recipe for disaster in any cruiser, turtleback or not.

 

O Class BC doesn't need to have the shorter fuse AND angles AND the sigma. But even if it did, it would still be way below Stalingrad in hp, lack of radar, number of guns... and of course so it should.

 

Alright, I somehow expected the O-cass to be very similar to the ingame Gneisenau, just somewhat less armored and potentially faster.

Anyway, if you give 380mm guns cruiser accuraccy (I don't think they will set another midpoint between supercruisers and regular cruisers - Azuma already somehow has a very slightly better dispersion than Alaska and Stalingrad, not sure why), you will delete bow in IJN, french, soviet and CL US cruisers with it. That is potentially very strong.

Technically if the O-class had armor that cannot be overmatched by most BBs, and given it should have torps, it could even get away with bad dispersion and serve as a brawler (maybe even with good secondaries). That would be new for supercruisers. But given the armor doesn't seem likely to be that good, I'm afraid it will need ridiculous accuracy, which in turn makes it a very questionable addition.

 

2 minutes ago, BruceRKF said:

You mean the effort to macth the picture to one from ship bucket or WG's idea to put this into the game? The former I find awesome as well (thanks for the effort, Comodoro_Allande), the latter though: Why another post-war ship? The Dutch had some ships during WW2, didn't they? And it would be nice to have some more mid tier ships for a change, since all the foggy pictures seem to be high tier ships. Not exited right now.

 

Oh well, the flooding of high tiers with very expensive premium ships continues. People apparently did buy Jean Barts, Alaskas and maybe even Azumas in droves, insane prices be damned.

[ColonelPete]

43 minutes ago, Comodoro_Allande said:

Closest fit so far is the Zeeland (Holland class). Equipment doesn't fit (especially on the back) , but the hull is almost identical (tried with models of the several refits of the Holland present on Shipbucket, but didn't fit as well as this)

But that is much too modern for my taste.

[BruceRKF]

1 minute ago, Toivia said:

Oh well, the flooding of high tiers with very expensive premium ships continues. People apparently did buy Jean Barts, Alaskas and maybe even Azumas in droves, insane prices be damned.

Unfortunately. I don't mind high tier ships, but I'd like some change of pace every once in a while...

 

Just now, ColonelPete said:

But that is much too modern for my taste.

Exactly my sentiment.

[1MajorKoenig]

Hopefully they are not steel though 

[Comodoro_Allande]

Yet another edit with both contendents: Holland for best hull fit and Friesland for best back equipment (radar antennas) and weapons (two 40 mm instead of one) fit

[Taliesn]

1 hour ago, Toivia said:

Alright, I somehow expected the O-cass to be very similar to the ingame Gneisenau, just somewhat less armored and potentially faster.

Anyway, if you give 380mm guns cruiser accuraccy (I don't think they will set another midpoint between supercruisers and regular cruisers - Azuma already somehow has a very slightly better dispersion than Alaska and Stalingrad, not sure why), you will delete bow in IJN, french, soviet and CL US cruisers with it. That is potentially very strong.

Technically if the O-class had armor that cannot be overmatched by most BBs, and given it should have torps, it could even get away with bad dispersion and serve as a brawler (maybe even with good secondaries). That would be new for supercruisers. But given the armor doesn't seem likely to be that good, I'm afraid it will need ridiculous accuracy, which in turn makes it a very questionable addition.

 

Oh well, the flooding of high tiers with very expensive premium ships continues. People apparently did buy Jean Barts, Alaskas and maybe even Azumas in droves, insane prices be damned.

 

Not really sure how many of those cruisers you will be deleting with 4 guns firing every 15-18 seconds before they are right at your nose. I am of course working under the assumption that if he's coming at you bow in he at least knows what he's doing. Of course, under the best of circumstances, any ship can nuke every other ship in the same tier.

 

She would have had 6x53.3cm torps, that's 1 less than Roon per side (3 instead of 4) that's the very definition of a very situational weapon.

 

No cruiser in game is a good brawler anyway. Hindenburg? Its 51k hp melt away very fast in spite of the turtleback. Others rely on island hugging or middle to long range sniping to avoid showing their broadside.

If the O-class is given 60k odd hp and moves like the rest of the supercruisers she will be a medium range ship with maybe the option to close in. That is not a bad thing.

[Toivia]

22 minutes ago, Taliesn said:

 

Not really sure how many of those cruisers you will be deleting with 4 guns firing every 15-18 seconds before they are right at your nose. I am of course working under the assumption that if he's coming at you bow in he at least knows what he's doing. Of course, under the best of circumstances, any ship can nuke every other ship in the same tier.

 

She would have had 6x53.3cm torps, that's 1 less than Roon per side (3 instead of 4) that's the very definition of a very situational weapon.

 

No cruiser in game is a good brawler anyway. Hindenburg? Its 51k hp melt away very fast in spite of the turtleback. Others rely on island hugging or middle to long range sniping to avoid showing their broadside.

If the O-class is given 60k odd hp and moves like the rest of the supercruisers she will be a medium range ship with maybe the option to close in. That is not a bad thing.

Huh? 4 citadels is enough to devastate cruisers easily. You need just one shot. With pinpoint accuracy, you'll hit a bow on cruiser every time.

 

Anyway, if it gets a better armor than Alaska and Kron and has torps and secondaries on top, it's a perfect brawler. It's already quite fun brawling with Alaska. Remember that Gneisenau/Scharnhorst also only have 3 torps per side.

 

But this is all very hypothetical anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if this german cruiser eventually gets triple 280mm guns cause reasons, no torps and no armor. Only for WG to later unveil a full version with triple 380mm guns with torps and armor.

[Makoniel]

Are they really doing it now?... A pan european ship, before Italy, the 4th most powerful navy at the start of the war, even gets one branch?
... I'm going to sob in a corner, wake me up when this nonsense is finally explained. 

I'd never thought the joke would become a reality. 

[cicciolorenz]

1 minute ago, Okitank said:

Are they really doing it now?... A pan european ship, before Italy, the 4th most powerful navy at the start of the war, even gets one branch?
... I'm going to sob in a corner, wake me up when this nonsense is finally explained. 

I'd never thought the joke would become a reality. 

Another navy's premium ships is not a huge problem, i remember people whining for RN BBs when Duca d'aosta came out

[HaachamaShipping]

1 hour ago, Toivia said:

Alright, I somehow expected the O-cass to be very similar to the ingame Gneisenau, just somewhat less armored and potentially faster.

Anyway, if you give 380mm guns cruiser accuraccy (I don't think they will set another midpoint between supercruisers and regular cruisers - Azuma already somehow has a very slightly better dispersion than Alaska and Stalingrad, not sure why), you will delete bow in IJN, french, soviet and CL US cruisers with it. That is potentially very strong.

Technically if the O-class had armor that cannot be overmatched by most BBs, and given it should have torps, it could even get away with bad dispersion and serve as a brawler (maybe even with good secondaries). That would be new for supercruisers. But given the armor doesn't seem likely to be that good, I'm afraid it will need ridiculous accuracy, which in turn makes it a very questionable addition.

You know what overmatches all cruisers and has silly dispersion? Georgia. And if you want your 25 mm extremity plating cruisers to not eat heavy damage from the front, then the issue with this ship is the caliber, not the accuracy. You could give it battlecruiser accuracy, it'd still do the same. If a supercruiser gets 38 cm guns, then regardless of accuracy, the most stupid approach is trying to bowtank it and Henri and Zao will have to tread this ship like pretty much any BB they face.

 

And sure, it'd be better off as a BB, because what the heck will the armour of this thing be?

[Makoniel]

2 minutes ago, cicciolorenz said:

Another navy's premium ships is not a huge problem, i remember people whining for RN BBs when Duca d'aosta came out

The RN was already established with a questionnable line of light cruisers, but still a line. 

It seems like for WG, Italy (who gave most of the technology to the soviet navy of this era) is of less relevance than Pan Asian ships. 

[fumtu]

5 minutes ago, Okitank said:

Are they really doing it now?... A pan european ship, before Italy, the 4th most powerful navy at the start of the war, even gets one branch?

 

What? As far as I know there are four Italian premium ships in the game and one that was in the test but disappeared somewhere. This is one premium ships not a full line of Pan Eu ship.

[invicta2012]

9 minutes ago, Okitank said:

Are they really doing it now?... A pan european ship, before Italy, the 4th most powerful navy at the start of the war, even gets one branch?

The thing is... There's a full line of actual Pan European DDs with Premiums and room for expansion. No paper ships, interesting designs. Ditto Pan American ones. If WG are having problems with Italian archives (and it looks like they are) then you can see why they've gone this route. But we want the RM too... 

[Toivia]

3 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

You know what overmatches all cruisers and has silly dispersion? Georgia. And if you want your 25 mm extremity plating cruisers to not eat heavy damage from the front, then the issue with this ship is the caliber, not the accuracy. You could give it battlecruiser accuracy, it'd still do the same. If a supercruiser gets 38 cm guns, then regardless of accuracy, the most stupid approach is trying to bowtank it and Henri and Zao will have to tread this ship like pretty much any BB they face.

 

And sure, it'd be better off as a BB, because what the heck will the armour of this thing be?

Wait, Georgia has supercruiser accuracy or cruiser accuracy?

 

And the problem being the caliber: entirely agree. If the ship ends up having very few guns and overmatching guns, it's not fun for cruisers.

 

Btw, wait, how do you treat any other BBs in your Zao and Henri if not angling your bow or stern to them, trying to evade most of the shells?

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, Toivia said:

Wait, Georgia has supercruiser accuracy or cruiser accuracy?

 

And the problem being the caliber: entirely agree. If the ship ends up having very few guns and overmatching guns, it's not fun for cruisers.

 

Btw, wait, how do you treat any other BBs in your Zao and Henri if not angling your bow or stern to them, trying to evade most of the shells?

Not get hit or try get hit on angled mid-section. Arguably works best on Hindenburg. But trying to bow-tank Montanas is just asking to get crapped on throgh the bow.

[Toivia]

1 minute ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Not get hit or try get hit on angled mid-section. Arguably works best on Hindenburg. But trying to bow-tank Montanas is just asking to get crapped on throgh the bow.

Baiting shots on angled broadside armor only works on idiot enemies that get actually baited. Dodging obviously only works at long range.

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, Toivia said:

Baiting shots on angled broadside armor only works on idiot enemies that get actually baited. Dodging obviously only works at long range.

If the enemy can aim accurately for your bow, then why are you going bow-in? To make sure shells can go right into the cit?

 

Not to mention, there's a reason why Zaos and Henris don't brawl BBs. But if you get shot at and can't dodge, this is basically what you try to get hit on.

[Toivia]

5 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

If the enemy can aim accurately for your bow, then why are you going bow-in? To make sure shells can go right into the cit?

 

Not to mention, there's a reason why Zaos and Henris don't brawl BBs. But if you get shot at and can't dodge, this is basically what you try to get hit on.

So far, every shell that overmatches has pretty bad dispersion. That's why you go bow in in those cruisers when you yolo torp charge them BBs. You bet on their guns having a terrible dispersion and missing you entirely by showing them the smallest target profile.

But when you get overmatching guns that are actually cruiser accurate, you cannot do anything.