[SINT] Jvd2000 Players 1,639 posts 31,167 battles Report post #14576 Posted May 21, 2019 2 hours ago, ColonelPete said: There was no planned variant. That would be pure fantasy. And would it be highly probable that such a ship stayed a BB. Yes, there was a planned version with much less armor, no torps, higher speed and dp secondaries. Project 1047 for the Dutch navy. And compared with the current premium large cruisers stats wise comparable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #14577 Posted May 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, Jvd2000 said: Yes, there was a planned version with much less armor, no torps, higher speed and dp secondaries. Project 1047 for the Dutch navy. And compared with the current premium large cruisers stats wise comparable. That is not a variant, but a completly different design by a diferent nation (even if they had german help). And the belt armor was 225mm. That is not less.... And 1047 had one knot less speed... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[T-N-T] Toivia Players 4,019 posts 23,935 battles Report post #14578 Posted May 21, 2019 About the 6 gun issue: Georgia has been in testing recenty and afaik turned out to be pretty damn strong with only 6 guns as well (granted, that was after an unhealthy addition of gimmicks). Now, this famed O-class, it would get torps as well as decent armor, right? As in, better armor than Kronshtadt still? If so, I am sure that with a better than Alaska/Stalingrad/Azuma dispersion, this O-class can work. The issue is that it would crap on a large amount of cruisers even when they go bow in. Stalingrad and Alaska usually need at least a bit of an angle to pen. Kron needs a little bit more, but the high pen helps. Azuma needs pretty much a full broadside. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[POMF] Verdius Beta Tester 1,989 posts 4,247 battles Report post #14579 Posted May 21, 2019 2 hours ago, fumtu said: WG is really flooding high tiers with premium ships. Seems like majority of newly announcement ships and ships in active testing are T9 and T10. Yeah, seems like WG found out that charging obscene amounts for a T9 prem has made them loads of money, or just to get people to grind huge amounts of resources. New UK BB looks like a 457mm Conq (They know LWM made Thunderer as a joke/to highlight bad ship design right) Spoiler Really wish we'd see something else amid this flood of T9s and 10s in such short time. It feels like this isn't good for the high tier meta (especially T8s) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taliesn Players 2,238 posts 16,405 battles Report post #14580 Posted May 21, 2019 1 hour ago, DFens_666 said: People are constanly crying, how OP Stalingrad is. And most of the time, its only using his front guns (that would be 6 too). So having a Cruiser with bigger guns, better reload AND better dispersion would be truely OP. 6 Guns doesnt matter - what matters is, how often you can make them count. And 380mm guns also bring a considerable increase in penetration with them. You could wreck Cruisers literally from any angle (except US/German CAs) and citadel lots of BBs reliably aswell. The KM BC would only be firing 4 guns more often than not though, so still 50% less than a similarly angled Stalingrad. And the problem with Stalingrad is not only the guns, is it? It is also the health pool (biggest of all cruisers), and the sigma (again, best of all ships) the armour, and the radar... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CHEFT] DFens_666 Players 13,162 posts 11,029 battles Report post #14581 Posted May 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Taliesn said: The KM BC would only be firing 4 guns more often than not though, so still 50% less than a similarly angled Stalingrad. And the problem with Stalingrad is not only the guns, is it? It is also the health pool (biggest of all cruisers), and the sigma (again, best of all ships) the armour, and the radar... Why would you bowtank in any other BC tho? Stalingrad has huge citadel, but strong lower bow/plating/deck armor. So it best option is to sit somewhere, protecting one side by an island. The same tactic in any other BC would result in punishment by BBs or HE spammers even. Unless the german BC would have same armor (which i doubt as it would receive some sort of turtleback), it would benefit more from roaming around, using all its turrets. I think, Sigma is not the biggest issue on Stalingrad. It has railguns, with a bit better AP angles, but also shorter fuse AP and the shells need less armor to arm. Those characteristics ensuse, that you get more citadels on Cruisers, and more pens on thin armor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CR33D] fumtu [CR33D] Players 3,842 posts 38,979 battles Report post #14582 Posted May 21, 2019 If you slap enough consumables and gimmick to the ship you can balance anything. Huanghe and Georgia are examples to this. O Class with 6 380mm guns could work at T9 if WG find correct combination and number of consumables/gimmicks. It maybe won't be fun to play so everybody but still it could work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taliesn Players 2,238 posts 16,405 battles Report post #14583 Posted May 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, Toivia said: About the 6 gun issue: Georgia has been in testing recenty and afaik turned out to be pretty damn strong with only 6 guns as well (granted, that was after an unhealthy addition of gimmicks). Now, this famed O-class, it would get torps as well as decent armor, right? As in, better armor than Kronshtadt still? If so, I am sure that with a better than Alaska/Stalingrad/Azuma dispersion, this O-class can work. The issue is that it would crap on a large amount of cruisers even when they go bow in. Stalingrad and Alaska usually need at least a bit of an angle to pen. Kron needs a little bit more, but the high pen helps. Azuma needs pretty much a full broadside. A sigma/dispersion somewhere in between the most accurate cruisers and Alaska/Azuma... would be fine. Armor looks (according to wiki...) to be slightly thinner than Alaska's, so good but definately not special. Not sure if turtleback would be a thing with this design. Torps would be similar to Roon's I guess, except 3 per side instead of 4. 4 guns firing every 15-18 seconds is hardly crapping on a large amount of cruisers unless of course the cruiser is making a mistake, and that should be punishable in every ship. 1 minute ago, DFens_666 said: Why would you bowtank in any other BC tho? Stalingrad has huge citadel, but strong lower bow/plating/deck armor. So it best option is to sit somewhere, protecting one side by an island. The same tactic in any other BC would result in punishment by BBs or HE spammers even. Unless the german BC would have same armor (which i doubt as it would receive some sort of turtleback), it would benefit more from roaming around, using all its turrets. I think, Sigma is not the biggest issue on Stalingrad. It has railguns, with a bit better AP angles, but also shorter fuse AP and the shells need less armor to arm. Those characteristics ensuse, that you get more citadels on Cruisers, and more pens on thin armor. Not sure about the turtleback in this case, so can't comment. Now honestly, in which cruisers do you really go roaming around showing all or most of your side in order to shoot with all your guns? That's a recipe for disaster in any cruiser, turtleback or not. O Class BC doesn't need to have the shorter fuse AND angles AND the sigma. But even if it did, it would still be way below Stalingrad in hp, lack of radar, number of guns... and of course so it should. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DREAD] josykay Players 711 posts Report post #14584 Posted May 21, 2019 Engine-Boost, Hydro, Torpedos, 27 mm Plating, 20 Seconds-Wehrboo-Reloadzeit. Reloadboost because of reasons. And cruiser accuracy! What Gimnick? All of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[T-N-T] Sigimundus Weekend Tester, Players, In AlfaTesters 6,566 posts 16,011 battles Report post #14585 Posted May 21, 2019 45 minutes ago, Toivia said: About the 6 gun issue: Georgia has been in testing recenty and afaik turned out to be pretty damn strong with only 6 guns as well (granted, that was after an unhealthy addition of gimmicks). Now, this famed O-class, it would get torps as well as decent armor, right? As in, better armor than Kronshtadt still? If so, I am sure that with a better than Alaska/Stalingrad/Azuma dispersion, this O-class can work. The issue is that it would crap on a large amount of cruisers even when they go bow in. Stalingrad and Alaska usually need at least a bit of an angle to pen. Kron needs a little bit more, but the high pen helps. Azuma needs pretty much a full broadside. Here some info from wiki . . . I'm not sure if it is correct https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-class_battlecruiser 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Comodoro_Allande Players 2,240 posts 8,469 battles Report post #14586 Posted May 21, 2019 Max contrast on that pan-european DD. Seems like only two gun turrets, one forward and one aft 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #14587 Posted May 21, 2019 The nation is the most interesting thing of the ship... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DREAD] 1MajorKoenig Players 13,110 posts 7,885 battles Report post #14588 Posted May 21, 2019 22 minutes ago, Taliesn said: A sigma/dispersion somewhere in between the most accurate cruisers and Alaska/Azuma... would be fine. Armor looks (according to wiki...) to be slightly thinner than Alaska's, so good but definately not special. Not sure if turtleback would be a thing with this design. Torps would be similar to Roon's I guess, except 3 per side instead of 4. 4 guns firing every 15-18 seconds is hardly crapping on a large amount of cruisers unless of course the cruiser is making a mistake, and that should be punishable in every ship. Not sure about the turtleback in this case, so can't comment. Now honestly, in which cruisers do you really go roaming around showing all or most of your side in order to shoot with all your guns? That's a recipe for disaster in any cruiser, turtleback or not. O Class BC doesn't need to have the shorter fuse AND angles AND the sigma. But even if it did, it would still be way below Stalingrad in hp, lack of radar, number of guns... and of course so it should. 7 minutes ago, Sigimundus said: Here some info from wiki . . . I'm not sure if it is correct https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-class_battlecruiser There were multiple iterations on this design. Ranging from very bad armor to decent. So this time WG really had the choice. With regards to the very conservative German shipbuilding principles it was still literally unprotected though. Hence their nicknames in the Geman Navy „Ohne, Panzer, Quatsch“ („No-Armor-Nonsense“) - an aliteration on theirs provisonal designatipns „O“, „P“, „Q“ under which they were ordered Nevertheless THE one big factor in game will be the guns. If the reload is fast and the dispersion is good the ship will be great. If not... well... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DREAD] 1MajorKoenig Players 13,110 posts 7,885 battles Report post #14589 Posted May 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Comodoro_Allande said: Max contrast on that pan-european DD. Seems like only two gun turrets, one forward and one aft That looks modern though 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Comodoro_Allande Players 2,240 posts 8,469 battles Report post #14590 Posted May 21, 2019 Seems dutch. I'm trying to fit Holland and Friesland. Both are pretty close, but still not a perfect fit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CR33D] fumtu [CR33D] Players 3,842 posts 38,979 battles Report post #14591 Posted May 21, 2019 Just now, Comodoro_Allande said: Seems dutch. I'm trying to fit Holland and Friesland. Both are pretty close, but still not a perfect fit I think you are right. It seems as one of those two classes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[XODUS] JaiFoh Players 799 posts 4,868 battles Report post #14592 Posted May 21, 2019 i think it is Holland Class myself but could also be Friesland class close run thing, what is more interesting is the 1.5 second reload guns and zero anti ship torpedoes.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[T-N-T] Sigimundus Weekend Tester, Players, In AlfaTesters 6,566 posts 16,011 battles Report post #14593 Posted May 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said: There were multiple iterations on this design. Ranging from very bad armor to decent. So this time WG really had the choice. With regards to the very conservative German shipbuilding principles it was still literally unprotected though. Hence their nicknames in the Geman Navy „Ohne, Panzer, Quatsch“ („No-Armor-Nonsense“) - an aliteration on theirs provisonal designatipns „O“, „P“, „Q“ under which they were ordered Nevertheless THE one big factor in game will be the guns. If the reload is fast and the dispersion is good the ship will be great. If not... well... I found more info here https://books.google.cz/books?id=mxfP8bF_lZ4C&pg=PA151&lpg=PA151&dq=Schlachtkreuzer+O&source=bl&ots=Y210BugYZV&sig=ACfU3U0Tzp9lQm8OKd-pLxiYtwVglusOCQ&hl=cs&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjnw_bJ56ziAhXKeZoKHbSBCrIQ6AEwDHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=Schlachtkreuzer O&f=false Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taliesn Players 2,238 posts 16,405 battles Report post #14594 Posted May 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sigimundus said: I found more info here https://books.google.cz/books?id=mxfP8bF_lZ4C&pg=PA151&lpg=PA151&dq=Schlachtkreuzer+O&source=bl&ots=Y210BugYZV&sig=ACfU3U0Tzp9lQm8OKd-pLxiYtwVglusOCQ&hl=cs&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjnw_bJ56ziAhXKeZoKHbSBCrIQ6AEwDHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=Schlachtkreuzer O&f=false Now we know where the guy who wrote the wiki took his info from, that's almost word for word what the wiki says 15 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said: There were multiple iterations on this design. Ranging from very bad armor to decent. So this time WG really had the choice. With regards to the very conservative German shipbuilding principles it was still literally unprotected though. Hence their nicknames in the Geman Navy „Ohne, Panzer, Quatsch“ („No-Armor-Nonsense“) - an aliteration on theirs provisonal designatipns „O“, „P“, „Q“ under which they were ordered Nevertheless THE one big factor in game will be the guns. If the reload is fast and the dispersion is good the ship will be great. If not... well... The unprotected bit is misleading at best. Most of these designs were certainly protected to defend against 203mm armed cruisers. And nothing more but that's just as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Comodoro_Allande Players 2,240 posts 8,469 battles Report post #14595 Posted May 21, 2019 Closest fit so far is the Zeeland (Holland class). Equipment doesn't fit (especially on the back) , but the hull is almost identical (tried with models of the several refits of the Holland present on Shipbucket, but didn't fit as well as this) 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CR33D] fumtu [CR33D] Players 3,842 posts 38,979 battles Report post #14596 Posted May 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, JaiFoh said: close run thing, what is more interesting is the 1.5 second reload guns and zero anti ship torpedoes.... Seems like Utrecht and Overijssel did received 8 torpedo tubes during 1960s, which were soon removed, but not sure where they here placed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HOO] Fat_Maniac [HOO] Players 2,337 posts 4,238 battles Report post #14597 Posted May 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, Comodoro_Allande said: Seems dutch. I'm trying to fit Holland and Friesland. Both are pretty close, but still not a perfect fit https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classe_Gerard_Callenburgh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[XODUS] JaiFoh Players 799 posts 4,868 battles Report post #14598 Posted May 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, fumtu said: Seems like Utrecht and Overijssel did received 8 torpedo tubes during 1960s, which were soon removed, but not sure where they here placed. now i need to dive into the books Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CR33D] fumtu [CR33D] Players 3,842 posts 38,979 battles Report post #14599 Posted May 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classe_Gerard_Callenburgh No this is not a Gerard Callenburgh class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DREAD] 1MajorKoenig Players 13,110 posts 7,885 battles Report post #14600 Posted May 21, 2019 18 minutes ago, Taliesn said: Now we know where the guy who wrote the wiki took his info from, that's almost word for word what the wiki says The unprotected bit is misleading at best. Most of these designs were certainly protected to defend against 203mm armed cruisers. And nothing more but that's just as well. Correct - which is in WOWS terms super soft. And it is a 100% contradiction to the German shipbuilding philosophy which was always “a ship’S First and foremost task is to stay afloat” no matter the time it was built Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
