Discussion thread for "some interesting info around the world"

[NothingButTheRain]

13 minutes ago, mariouus said:

No. I am saying what I have always sayed. 

 

There is bit of a difference of being statistically "Fine" and being Balanced.

 

It is not Balanced due the fact that players playing some other BB have to but mutch more effort and skill into them do achive the same level. Conqurer gets it on the basis of being substantilly dumbed down.

In a top tier player vs player game it is non-sense, you can not have something that defies user-input.

 

That is the reason why WG is saying that they do not want change statistical performance but how it playes.

 

 

I already explained why having ship in the game that may or may not be harder, or easier to play, is probably actually good for the game.

Also explained why diversity is good for the game (if only so it takes longer to get bored of it lol).

And I also had mentioned, if you don't like the ship, then don't play the ship.

Quote

So no, you do not need do explane what balance is. You probably need do learn what it is instead.

If you say so 

[El2aZeR]

10 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Can't find a CV rework number on the AP bomb fuze timings to make a more educated guess.

 

Probably because they don't exist yet.

Everything we know about AP bombs so far is based on training room tests, live experience and pure guesswork.

 

Maybe @Darth_Glorious can help since he previously posted all that stuff about rockets and HE bombs?

[Aotearas]

11 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

So it either is a nerf to the widened part of the citadel, or nothing changes, depending on how AP bombs will pen? Is this correct?

Yes (note my previous comment's edit on the target area for AP drops).

 

But that's still only half the changes, as the healing buff allows much more regular AP pens (basically every AP hit that doesn't citadel you) and all HE pens (since you're never going to get citadeled with HE in a Conqueror), the latter of which constitutes all the alpha potential that HE DBs can do to a Conqueror. That means a Conqueror can just laugh at something like Midway ~16k HE drops and fires since you only lose 15% of that damage (for a 16k example that's jsut 2400 HP lost) permanently.

 

Conqueror vulnerability to CV drops would thus only shift slightly towards AP bombs (how much depending on if the widened citadel volume actually catches those bombs or if they overpen the segment) from HE bombs.

Conqueror would still be absolutely at the mercy of any halfway competent CV player however as basically all of its AA dps in very flimsy 40mm mounts centered on and around its superstructure and thus losing it at alarming rate as soon as something hits it with HE and knocks out AA modules. Plus the Conqueror still suffers just as much from TB strikes due to its crappy torpedobelt.

 

 

Even if the widened citadel segment would catch the occasional AP bomb for full damage (which I doubt, but we'll see), the ultimate end result of a determing CV strike against Conquerors would still be the same, a dead Conquorer. Precious little will have changed in that regard.

 

 

 

Now that I think of it ... if anything I'd even say the heal buff would be quite a nasty secondhand nerf to the Midway since literally nothing she can damage the Conqueror with will stick (rockets and HE bombs only do regular HE pens and fires which can be healed 85% and 100% respectively and the torps which count as citadel damage have such ridiculously low alpha you'd have spend the entire game doing nothing but hitting the Conqueror with torps to do significant damage).

Conqueror would literally see a Midway on the enemy team and just laugh as he can safely ignore it all game long.

[Ruth_clifton]

this   IFHE  IS   CR-AP   2

[NothingButTheRain]

1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

You mean your nonsense about not being able to angle against everything and the oh so dreaded AP DBs?

 

I already gave you the answers to that, you can angle against multiple ships easily as long as you keep an eye on the minimap and not hopelessly expose yourself to a crossfire and a CV will have its ways with a Conqueror anyway, AP DBs or not ... nevermind that you already can citadel Conquerors with AP DBs.

 

And nothing will change in regards to torpedoes because any hit in the midsection would already count as a citadel hit anyway and the length of the citadel isn't getting changed, only its height, ergo no more hit area for torps. Besides, torps are already the bane of the Conqueror due to its relatively low HP and poor torpedo belt.

 

Once more all you do is grasp at straws. And not ONCE have you ever given a scenario where a halfway angled Conqueror player would suffer citadel damage in any form of regularity for it to counteract the benefits the improved heal provides every single time you use it compared to the rare or downright made-up citadel scenarios you keep repeating as if that nonsense would start being a reasonable argument if you just keep spouting those.

 

 

Give me practical scenarios where a properly angling Conqueror would take citadel damage. Still waiting.

 

1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

The Conqueror citadel gets RAISED, not widened.

Next time, don't use such harsh language against me while you're the one potatoing.

[Aotearas]

26 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

 

Next time, don't use such harsh language against me while you're the one potatoing.

 

Maybe you ought to wait for the actual results after the nerf before getting all smug because I argued based on what WG has been consistently saying was going to be changed.

For all we know even widening the citadel may make no difference if the AP bombs just fly through the shallow casemate hitbox and your "but AP bombs" argument turns out inconsequetial just the same.

 

And your "can't angle against everything" argument that you've made a couple times is still nonsense, nothing changed in that field.

So far the AP bomb scenario is the only thing that's a potential concern and even then it's only a minor concern because newsflash: the Conqueror isn't supposed to be resilient to CV strikes. You want a BB that's a tough AA nut to crack, play the Montana and that one can get AP bomb citadeled pretty easily, so go figure that one out ...

 

Meanwhile aside from all theoriticall buts and ifs regarding AP bombs, the heal improvement is a 100% quantifiable buff that will always give you its improved benefits no matter the circumstances. That's still more than a fair trade for the occasional citadel you get for missplaying!

 

 

Also:

1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

The Conqueror citadel gets RAISED, not widened.

What part in that comment is harsh language? Taking a comment that much out of context just looks as if you're trying to to play the victim.

You will also have found that once we established that WG dun f*cked up their communication, I was argueing strightforward and factually. So don't act as if I was just ignorantly bashing you the whole time.

[mariouus]

1 hour ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I already explained why having ship in the game that may or may not be harder, or easier to play, is probably actually good for the game.

Also explained why diversity is good for the game (if only so it takes longer to get bored of it lol).

And I also had mentioned, if you don't like the ship, then don't play the ship.

Really? So one not playing that ship would magically remove this ship from opposing team aswell? Again, it is player-vs-player game.

 

 

[Toivia]

Don't bother. NothingButTheRain will never admit his mistakes and keep repeating nonsense.

 

Point is that even the initial round of testing was easily giving the Conqueror a large enough buff (heal CD decrease) to outweigh the raised citadel (which is again almost inconsequential to non potato players). And making the heal so much more effective while also giving Conq a sigma buff is just huge overkill.

[ghostbuster_]

1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

 

Also:

What part in that comment is harsh language? Taking a comment that much out of context just looks as if you're trying to to play the victim.

You will also have found that once we established that WG dun f*cked up their communication, I was argueing strightforward and factually. So don't act as if I was just ignorantly bashing you the whole time.

you have been discussing with a complete potato who was enjoying his monqueror while playing it like a complete monq and now he "thinks" (at least he tries) this "nerf" is too much and was not needed. 

 

just letting you know. you might want to stop wasting time with that that guy with mindblowing logic.

[HaachamaShipping]

2 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I already explained why having ship in the game that may or may not be harder, or easier to play, is probably actually good for the game.

Also explained why diversity is good for the game (if only so it takes longer to get bored of it lol).

And I also had mentioned, if you don't like the ship, then don't play the ship.

A ship that allows someone to do way more than is justified for a certain skill level isn't good for the game, even if there's limitations on skill ceiling. Same reason why I absolutely detest the concept behind Asashio. It doesn't help that a potato in one of those ships will likely never carry, they would never have done that anyway in a properly designed ship either. But that they can crap all over other people's proper gameplay with little effort and get disproportionate results for what they actually did is just dumb. The changes to Conqueror at least make it a little bit less of a stupid ship to play, it still has allround HE potatoes can use to farm damage from 20+ km away.

[Aotearas]

Just now, ghostbuster_ said:

you have been discussing with a complete potato who was enjoying his monqueror while playing it like a complete monq and now he "thinks" (at least he tries) this "nerf" is too much and was not needed. 

 

just letting you know. you might want to stop wasting time with that that guy with mindblowing logic.

Oh, I do know.

 

I just find it funny that someone who pretends to want on honest discussion just completely threw away the discussion on the ONE decent argument he had by trying to be a smug arse. A broken clock doesn't get to be proud of itself just because it happens to show the correct time twice a day.

[fumtu]

Well Notser opinion is that it is too powerful now

 

 

While I would admit that raised citadel is a big thing but this weakness is still very situational and could be negated I think that  this is a small price especially when you consider all the things you are getting for it which are useful all the time like increased sigma and changes to heal.

 

[Toivia]

What a surprise. Stuntman also mentions roughly half way that Conq would be fine with merely raising the citadel (with the fixed citadel deck, obviously) without the heal buffs - or even the mystifying 419mm sigma buff.

 

[Aotearas]

2 hours ago, fumtu said:

From Reddit:

 

Datamined.

• Georgia

  • Secondary range has been extended to 7.5km from 6.

  • Main battery's dispersion is now identical to Cruisers' one. 6.9*x(km)+33 (m)

  • Repair Party has been changed to Gascogne's from Colorado's.

  • French Engine boost for Tier6, 7 Cruisers has been added to new slot.

• Soviet BB

  • Range upgrade has been disabled.

  • Tier9, 10: Main Battery has received additional 20000HP. (Total HP is 40000 for each turret, hardly destroyable)

  • T8, 9, 10: AP penetrations have been nerfed.

• Sov. Soyuz

  • Casemate and central deck have been thickened to 60mm from 40mm.

  • Anti torpedo protection has improved. To 0.216 from 0.262.

• Kreml

  • 60mm Central deck. Who would could kill this already-overly-enough-tanky ship?

  • Torpedo Proctection buffed to 0.179 from 0.236.

• Pobeda (Slava)

  • Range has improved to 24680m from 20680m.

  • Sigma has increased to 1.9 from 1.7. Dispersion remains the same as tree BBs.

  • 32mm Deck.

  • Equipped with Normal DCP for BB .

 

 

 

I can't even ...

 

Georgia gets cruiser dispersion (plus secondary range and speedboost gimmick), RU tier IX and X BBs get 60mm central deck armour (only HE that could now damage that part is battleship caliber or Hindenburg with IFHE).

The only thing that doesn't have my head shaking in disbelief is the Slava changes.

 

 

Azuma had gotten its armour profile gutted into basically non-existence to get slightly better dispersion than the other big gun cruisers. And Georgia now gets even better dispersion, with cruiser overmatch galore guns on a battleship hull. The f*ck? Double the f*ck if that's on top of the reload buff!

And why should any cruiser be a serious threat to glorious russian battleships? Just plaster 60mm armour over what will likely be close to half the ship and make it effectively impervious to cruiser HE (only superstructure, bow and aft left to damage with HE and those sections saturate fast, after that you're down to praying to RNG for fires).

 

 

Meanwhile, Slava's gimmick is going to be a relatively normal BB. Yeah ... we'll see how long that lasts.

[SparvieroVV]

Bumping up to 60mm is interesting. Something with a 10" rifle at high tier was placed on the long term dev plan? 

 

Georgia isn't just getting cruiser dispersion. The Gascogne repair party doesn't seem to get much notice and then secondary memes/speed boost. I'm hoping they are just looking to see which feature the player base finds most fun/op and keep that dropping the others. However once you add something to test people tend to respond negatively when it is dropped.

[Panocek]

9 minutes ago, SparvieroVV said:

Bumping up to 60mm is interesting. Something with a 10" rifle at high tier was placed on the long term dev plan? 

 

Georgia isn't just getting cruiser dispersion. The Gascogne repair party doesn't seem to get much notice and then secondary memes/speed boost. I'm hoping they are just looking to see which feature the player base finds most fun/op and keep that dropping the others. However once you add something to test people tend to respond negatively when it is dropped.

Assuming 1/6 rule you would need 361mm+ or 14.2" guns, thats larger than Fuso or midtier dreadnoughts in general.

 

IFHEndenburg meta soon?

 

Or 3rd RU battlecruiser, Kron sister or somesuch with 1/5 HE pen for balans reasons

[HaachamaShipping]

4 minutes ago, SparvieroVV said:

Bumping up to 60mm is interesting. Something with a 10" rifle at high tier was placed on the long term dev plan? 

Nah, this and freeing up captain points with extra repair party on Hindenburg is to give IFHE Hindenburg a new role in the meta.

[fumtu]

19 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

RU tier IX and X BBs get 60mm central deck armour (only HE that could now damage that part is battleship caliber).

 

Wonder how long before we some someone with IFHE build for Alaska, Krony, Azuma and ST.

[GulvkluderGuld]

26 minutes ago, Panocek said:

IFHEndenburg meta soon?

IFHE Balancegrad too?

[Aotearas]

42 minutes ago, SparvieroVV said:

Georgia isn't just getting cruiser dispersion.

Erm, ...

 

Quote

Main battery's dispersion is now identical to Cruisers' one. 6.9*x(km)+33 (m)

 

[SparvieroVV]

7 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Erm, ...

 

 

Read it again, carefully. This time without cropping out part of the post. 

[Aotearas]

10 minutes ago, SparvieroVV said:

Read it again, carefully. This time without cropping out part of the post. 

You said Georgia doesn't get cruiser dispersion. Datamined informations say she does get cruiser dispersion. Other changes to the Georgia are irrelevant towards that claim you made.

 

Nevermind, I somehow overlooked the "just" which completely changed the nature of that statement, apologies.

[SparvieroVV]

49 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Assuming 1/6 rule you would need 361mm+ or 14.2" guns, thats larger than Fuso or midtier dreadnoughts in general.

 

IFHEndenburg meta soon?

 

Or 3rd RU battlecruiser, Kron sister or somesuch with 1/5 HE pen for balans reasons

A 254mm Regia Marina rifle would join the Henri IV in 50+mm IFHE land at 54mm after correction. This was my silly reference. 

 

Honestly the built in IFHE(1/4) for German HE originally justified by base fuse yet still allowing ifhe as an accessible skill is silliness. Now extended to other ships. We can’t have an SAP shell however a base fuse for your base fuse is ok. 

[HaachamaShipping]

2 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

You said Georgia doesn't get cruiser dispersion. Datamined informations say she does get cruiser dispersion. Other changes to the Georgia are irrelevant towards that claim you made.

You might want to read that more carefully.

1 hour ago, SparvieroVV said:

Georgia isn't just getting cruiser dispersion. 

Relevant part highlighted by me.

[Aotearas]

Just now, Cagliostro_chan said:

You might want to read that more carefully.

Relevant part highlighted by me.

 

Yeah, already caught that mistake.