Discussion thread for "some interesting info around the world"

[Panocek]

3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

With that dispersion and volume of fire you'll get 10k hits with superstructure salvoes all day. Why would you ever want to use the bombs? 

10k on first salvo, then you get Kebab vs exhausted superstructure experience ie making lots of noise for not so much of an effect.

 

Unless Indentable comes with button to be guaranteed top tier, I'll pass

 

Plane speed is kek/10 tho

[NothingButTheRain]

1 hour ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

If you can't see the difference in "punishment" most high tier RN BBs take compared to other lines, then I don't know. Conqueror is second only to Großer Kurfürst in how little they have to care about exposing broadside, as worst case, the ships lose maybe 30k hp, if the enemy lands 12/12 shells on them. Meanwhile Montana and especially Yamato can potentially get oneshot or eat equal amounts of damage from just a few shells landing, but being citadels.

But it's not just about punishment of broadside BBs. It's about balance. And you also don't need to verbally assault me.

 

And you conveniently left out that GK and Conqueror have vastly different health pools. GK has the most while Conqueror has the least. So in your words it's the GK that would need the nerf. But that's not what you're saying, so the punishment of broadside battleships is not your actual point. It cannot be as you would have been all over GK instead and you're clearly not.

 

Montana and Yamato have more health and Yamato has the lolpen guns. And of course we can all see that, all strengths and weaknesses of all the ships you named included, none of these ships is vastly overpowered.

[El2aZeR]

8 minutes ago, Panocek said:

10k on first salvo, then you get Kebab vs exhausted superstructure experience ie making lots of noise for not so much of an effect.

 

Damage drop from saturation actually isn't particularly significant if TST Midway has told me anything. And you'll probably get a ton of fires, too.

But yeah, Indomitable lacks the reserves, plane regen and health to spam them anyway. I'll pass as well. If I want to have fun with rockets there's already a waifu ship in my port for that. 

 

Still funny tho that they thought giving anything TST Midway RF attributes would be a reasonable thing to do.

[Tyrendian89]

9 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

And you conveniently left out that GK and Conqueror have vastly different health pools.

yes they do. Conqueror has a measly 50k more potential HP (and will get closer to that total more often now unless you mess up and get citadelled), because of, you know, that super heal that is getting buffed?

[Prospect_b]

-- edited -- :D

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Damage drop from saturation actually isn't particularly significant if TST Midway has told me anything. And you'll probably get a ton of fires, too.

But yeah, Indomitable lacks the reserves, plane regen and health to spam them anyway. I'll pass as well. If I want to have fun with rockets there's already a waifu ship in my port for that. 

 

Still funny tho that they thought giving anything TST Midway RF attributes would be a reasonable thing to do.

Midway had and still has 32mm HE pen. Not 27mm. Even T10 cruisers are going to show you quite a middle finger against that

[El2aZeR]

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Midway had and still has 32mm HE pen. Not 27mm. Even T10 cruisers are going to show you quite a middle finger against that

 

Meh, I still attacked GKs for 10k damage. Conqs/Repus ate more like 20k.

And I did 300kn while doing that. 

[NothingButTheRain]

39 minutes ago, Toivia said:

Oh my oh my, NothingButTheRain posts a table that actually misproves his thesis that Conqueror is average (at best). Even for the better players that the table represents, Conqueror is the best in damage and k/d, second best in WR (no, I don't think counting Bourgogne is fair, even assuming it is not OP, very few players have it with overall few battles played, it's like comparing Stalingrad with other T10 cruisers or Kron/Alaska with other T9 - the stats are just wildly different).

 

Thing with the Conq raised citadel is that by itself, it indeed is a nerf for all, but a pretty small nerf. I would be fine with Conq receiving some small buff to compensate, but small. Right now it got its superheal buffed twice! and even the 12 guns got a buffed sigma. That's a freaking overcompensation if I've seen one.

 

4 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

What's your problem? There's just 6 ships in that list in total and HE is known for doing more damage statistically, but not where it matters so the slightly higher average damage is imo kinda negated by this effect.

 

All HE slingers should have slightly higher average damage.

So you already know that ships that depend on mostly HE/fire damage should have higher average damage. But of course you completely swipe away this fact.

 

And it's not just about what place a ship has in the list, but also how much the difference is between these ships.

And of course one can compare premium ships along with tech tree ships. Nobody is denying that reading stats is just about reading the numbers, but you have a peculiar way of doing this. But fine. If you want to interpret this as evidence that Conqueror is indeed vastly OP, well I guess you are entitled to your opinion. But so am I.

 

Anyway. I've done some fairly extensive research in finding which ships can be considered OP and Conqueror is not one of them. I'm pretty sure you want to believe it is but the numbers are not on your side.

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Meh, I still attacked GKs for 10k damage. Conqs/Repus ate more like 20k.

And I did 300kn while doing that. 

Obviously, buff Indentable. Can't have some colony biplane from the past outrun smug plywood plane delivering Tea to the surface peasants

[CptBarney]

We need lusty in the game hopefully they make her a good cv, along with yorktown and gang.

 

also happy about the monarch buffs, the conqueror buffs are very questionable and the lower tier russian bb’s seem like they will be paper now.

[NothingButTheRain]

18 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

yes they do. Conqueror has a measly 50k more potential HP (and will get closer to that total more often now unless you mess up and get citadelled), because of, you know, that super heal that is getting buffed?

He was talking about broadside tanking, not HE spam.

[NothingButTheRain]

7 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

We need lusty in the game hopefully they make her a good cv, along with yorktown and gang.

 

also happy about the monarch buffs, the conqueror buffs are very questionable and the lower tier russian bb’s seem like they will be paper now.

Lusty?

 

I'm also happy Monarch is getting some attention now, but balancing these raised and widened citadels is a difficult task to get right.

 

And that's what was not obvious to me until I saw a streamer show us the armor schemes. The citadels didn't just get raised, but they also got widened and kinda resemble a "T" now. And this shape of citadel proved too difficult to balance when Vanguard originally had such a citadel and WG ended up doing away with it completely.

But now Conqueror is being gifted a heal that is getting absurd by itself, simply so they can get this nerf negated.

 

Frankly, I'd say just give the Monarch an improved heal and be done with these ships.

 

The Russian BBs got some considerable nerfs and they lost their radar. But testing has not been completed yet, so I'm waiting what they are gonna do with them now.

[ghostbuster_]

50 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

Yes it would. And there is no need to verbally assault me simply because I believe that if an average ship gets nerfed (which raising citadel is, it is a straight out nerf without any benefits whatsoever), then it will decrease its performance and it doesn't need another nerf to its performance as its performance is already average.

 

If you can't even accept this, then we have nothing left to say to each other.

omg... this doesnt have any effect on a player who plays cong in a right way.... this change is not a nerf. let me give you some examples to possible nerfs. nerfing its dispercion, nerfing its concealment, nerfing its heal, lower the fire change, lower the he alpha. see gotit now? these would have been nerfs. but raising citadel wont be noticed by a good player. the ship wont be tard proof anymore (no ship should be tard proof). so only potatos who show full broadside will be affected.

[Panocek]

46 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

Lusty?

Spoiler

Illustrious class carrier(s)

Spoiler

Indomitable is kinda missed opportunity for additional 2d stuff and for T6 material she competes with Ark Royal and her Swordfishes. Or as Freemium carrier at tier 8, to go with her AL-esque complement of two fighters and TB, lets say Seafire+rockets, Seafire+1x500lb as actual divebomber (Langley bomb - 7300dmg, 42mm HE pen) and improved Swordfishes in Kaga config - slow, somewhat fragile and lots of them.

Just a hint for 3rd collab @MrConway 

 

 

58 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

We need lusty tier 6 prem CVs for Ops in the game hopefully they make her a good cv, along with yorktown and gang.

 

also happy about the monarch buffs, the conqueror buffs are very questionable and the lower tier russian bb’s seem like they will be paper now.

I'd point at least one existing prem carrier that could be safely downtiered to tier 6 and get historical complement of planes instead wehraboo wet dreams

Also Saratoga/Lexington with 8x203 secondaries. And if there is carrier worth using UK carpet bombing, its the Hornet with B-25s

[CptBarney]

38 minutes ago, Panocek said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Illustrious class carrier(s)

  Reveal hidden contents

Indomitable is kinda missed opportunity for additional 2d stuff and for T6 material she competes with Ark Royal and her Swordfishes. Or as Freemium carrier at tier 8, to go with her AL-esque complement of two fighters and TB, lets say Seafire+rockets, Seafire+1x500lb as actual divebomber (Langley bomb - 7300dmg, 42mm HE pen) and improved Swordfishes in Kaga config - slow, somewhat fragile and lots of them.

Just a hint for 3rd collab @MrConway 

 

 

I'd point at least one existing prem carrier that could be safely downtiered to tier 6 and get historical complement of planes instead wehraboo wet dreams

Also Saratoga/Lexington with 8x203 secondaries. And if there is carrier worth using UK carpet bombing, its the Hornet with B-25s

yeah but ark royal is a weridio

 

Also yes please but increase the number to 16 per side with 12km range for balans pls.

[Panocek]

3 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

yeah but ark royal is a weridio

 

Also yes please but increase the number to 16 per side with 12km range for balans pls.

IIRC even Arpeggio collab had voiceover change if you were using lets say, Kongo on normal ship and you had Kongo on her Kongo.

So imagine possibilities for ship class or ship specific kill. Or friendly ramming

[CptBarney]

26 minutes ago, Panocek said:

IIRC even Arpeggio collab had voiceover change if you were using lets say, Kongo on normal ship and you had Kongo on her Kongo.

So imagine possibilities for ship class or ship specific kill. Or friendly ramming

But smoll mutsuki....

 

Too many kongo's on...nevermind smoll and peace would get nightmares.

[Toivia]

@NothingButTheRain Seriously stop bending all I (and plenty others post). That's one of the reasons any debate with you is pointless at this rate.

 

You first argue Conqueror is average. Then you post a table showing Conqueror is close to being the best of regular T10 BBs. When I point it out, you accuse me of calling Conqueror OP.

 

You keep ending up saying I and others call Conqueror OP. Most of us do not. Yet you keep repeating that. Basically you are saying you know what we are saying better than us.

 

T citadel. Umm, you just found out, eh? Vanguard still has that citadel. Many if not most of the soviet BBs do as well. The only particular weakness that brings (in addition to any heightened citadel being easier to reach) is a potential vulnerability to AP bombs (because of the larger size relative to the ship).

 

Your comparing of Conqueror and Kurfurst HP obviously lacks mention of the heal making Conqueror capable of absorbing even more damage than Kurfurst (And before you again start shouting OPness about Conqueror, obviously NO, that's not what I am saying, it is however one of Conqueror's advantages). Others have already pointed that out (thanks @Tyrendian89).

[22cm]

8 hours ago, ghostbuster_ said:

 not enough. not every ship gets punished enough for doing stupid mistakes.

You mean the  carriers?

[NothingButTheRain]

6 hours ago, Toivia said:

@NothingButTheRain Seriously stop bending all I (and plenty others post). That's one of the reasons any debate with you is pointless at this rate.

 

You first argue Conqueror is average. Then you post a table showing Conqueror is close to being the best of regular T10 BBs. When I point it out, you accuse me of calling Conqueror OP.

 

You keep ending up saying I and others call Conqueror OP. Most of us do not. Yet you keep repeating that. Basically you are saying you know what we are saying better than us.

 

T citadel. Umm, you just found out, eh? Vanguard still has that citadel. Many if not most of the soviet BBs do as well. The only particular weakness that brings (in addition to any heightened citadel being easier to reach) is a potential vulnerability to AP bombs (because of the larger size relative to the ship).

 

Your comparing of Conqueror and Kurfurst HP obviously lacks mention of the heal making Conqueror capable of absorbing even more damage than Kurfurst (And before you again start shouting OPness about Conqueror, obviously NO, that's not what I am saying, it is however one of Conqueror's advantages). Others have already pointed that out (thanks @Tyrendian89).

Sorry, but where exactly did I state that someone said Conqueror is OP while the person did not say this? You should stop verbally assaulting me and perhaps focus more on the facts (and to interpret them more correctly instead of just briefly glancing over them and then smash the judges hammer into the table because you already have the definitive endconclusion and I am simply ignoring what in your eyes is the one and only possible truth here.

If you don't like what I say, feel free to add me to your ignore list. That could also save me the burdon to have to go look up numbers because some "tart" as some special other unicum here called it, had jumped on this bandwagon and thinks that he who shouts the loudest, is also the one that is most heard.

 

Sorry, what did I just find out? Afaik everybody only just found out about the shape of Conqueror citadel because it was only recently revealed to all of us. How does that make you wonder why I only just found that out? 

 

I'm not bending anything. You are, by saying the numbers I presented are a proof of Conqueror being OP and me simply ignoring this supposedly cold hard data, and I already explained why this interpretation is incorrect and my reservations against this interpretation are well founded. Not everybody will like this but that's not really my problem. I can't save the whole world of its ignorance.

 

I wasn't even the one who started bringing in the GK in this specific case, it was a point that someone else brought up with a single purpose and this statement was simply not an accurate representation of the point of discussion here. And I already mentioned that this superheal is only effective against fires and flood damage which is something different from broadsiding battleships which usually get damaged by AP shells.

 

And I'll add in an example of how nasty it can be to have any dialogue with you by stating that you are obviously and purposefully leaving out the increased cooldown time of a whopping 2 full minutes because you are a manipulative fanboy. And of course this is totally true and not suggestive in any way (but you only just found out right?) also totally a normal way to disagree with someone. Such a shame that I didn't bother to try and bring in the numbers to back up my claims 

[NothingButTheRain]

7 hours ago, Panocek said:

IIRC even Arpeggio collab had voiceover change if you were using lets say, Kongo on normal ship and you had Kongo on her Kongo.

So imagine possibilities for ship class or ship specific kill. Or friendly ramming

Weren't the ARP ships used to be considered their own country? This would explain why the voice sounded differently when put on another ship.

And afaik the dual-country hockey player also has a voice change when playing on either a soviet ship or a USN one. So I expect it has something to do with this. Could be fixable by some modding but of course that should be WG's job.

[NothingButTheRain]

8 hours ago, ghostbuster_ said:

omg... this doesnt have any effect on a player who plays cong in a right way

yes it does have any effect on a player who plays cong in a right way

[NothingButTheRain]

And there is one other thing that sprang to my mind.

 

It is supposedly a bad thing that something is easy to play? Well...why is this a bad thing?

If you don't like some ship because you think it's too easy, then don't play it.

 

There's nothing wrong with having ships of different difficulty level, both for beginner players and for the max skill ceiling.

[Toivia]

3 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

Sorry, but where exactly did I state that someone said Conqueror is OP while the person did not say this?

Right here:

11 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

If you want to interpret this as evidence that Conqueror is indeed vastly OP, well I guess you are entitled to your opinion.

While obviously I never interpreted the table presented "as evidence that Conqueror is indeed vastly OP". See more below where you again reach for the "OP" term.

 

3 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

Sorry, what did I just find out? Afaik everybody only just found out about the shape of Conqueror citadel because it was only recently revealed to all of us. How does that make you wonder why I only just found that out? 

The test Conqueror with the raised citadel in this shape has been officially announced in testing as of February 21, even including pics of the citadel:

You are welcome.

 

3 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I'm not bending anything. You are, by saying the numbers I presented are a proof of Conqueror being OP and me simply ignoring this supposedly cold hard data, and I already explained why this interpretation is incorrect and my reservations against this interpretation are well founded. Not everybody will like this but that's not really my problem. I can't save the whole world of its ignorance.

And again here you go with the OP nonsense. I stated literally "Conqueror is close to being the best of regular T10 BBs". How the hell is that turning into OP in your mind?! Being one of the best is fine, it also means the ship will probably survive any number of small nerfs at the price of being more average, which is still fine.

OP is something that is obviously above the rest of the competition. In the numbers you provided, Bourgogne could be considered OP (I don't want to call it as such because the stat sample is too small, the players that have Bourgogne are a very specific group etc.).

 

3 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I wasn't even the one who started bringing in the GK in this specific case, it was a point that someone else brought up with a single purpose and this statement was simply not an accurate representation of the point of discussion here. And I already mentioned that this superheal is only effective against fires and flood damage which is something different from broadsiding battleships which usually get damaged by AP shells.

 

And I'll add in an example of how nasty it can be to have any dialogue with you by stating that you are obviously and purposefully leaving out the increased cooldown time of a whopping 2 full minutes because you are a manipulative fanboy. And of course this is totally true and not suggestive in any way (but you only just found out right?***) also totally a normal way to disagree with someone. Such a shame that I didn't bother to try and bring in the numbers to back up my claims 

The superheal is as effective against any penetration and citadel damage as any normal battleship heal (Vanguard is an exception, US silver BBs have some benefits as does, I believe Warspite). Nothing to do with only effectiveness versus fires and floods.

 

I'll also point out the tested Conqueror specifically heals even far more penetration damage to its mid section than (at this point) any heal in the game.

 

2 minute cooldown? Why do I leave it out? Because:

A) it doesn't matter, Conqueror has the concealment to disengage and heal perfectly fine even with this longer CD on the heal. It was also specifically nerfed because the previous tested version with regular CD on the superheal was too strong (as you love the term, here you could probably say: OP);

B) the tested version has brought down that CD on the superheal (now stronger than ever) back to 80 seconds (see the above posted link - again dates back to February).

 

(but you only just found out right?***): Wait a second, are you insinuating I didn't know about Conqueror's heal CD? Jesus man, I'm starting to think you just found that out yourself and have barely any knowledge about the current Conqueror. That would honestly explain a lot.

[Panocek]

7 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

Weren't the ARP ships used to be considered their own country? This would explain why the voice sounded differently when put on another ship.

And afaik the dual-country hockey player also has a voice change when playing on either a soviet ship or a USN one. So I expect it has something to do with this. Could be fixable by some modding but of course that should be WG's job.

Initially yes, ARP ships were limited to their own captains. Then they turned into IJN premium/collector boats.

 

And I dont mean different voiceover, just additional line when starting battle in case of ship matching the captain