Discussion thread for "some interesting info around the world"

[Verdius]

Bayard only having 13mm plating with no heal or smoke just looks bad. Its basically a worse more squishy Cleveland without radar.

 

French DD concept just looks terrbible imho (pun intended)

Only having engine boost, no smoke, on tiers 2-5 is going to be craptastic

Beyond that the T9 and T10 have just have such terrible reload that their ability to actually gunboat is going to suffer a lot. Not having any defensive tools aside from speed is going to make them really annoying to play, and depending on their balistics is going to cripple them.

[El2aZeR]

7 minutes ago, rnat said:

How old exactly is that ? Pretty sure she didn't have those when she was my No1 love-boat at T8.

 

I'm pretty sure T8 Fubuki used to have 15km running at 57kn. Don't remember their concealment tho.

And I believe TA didn't exist back then. ^^

 

But yeah, 2,5km concealment is pretty horrible. I'm fairly certain that they used to deal more damage as well.

[Panocek]

Quote

Other FRDD

• Tier7, 9, 10: Not protected by 10% limit so that they can take devastating damage from large caliber AP.

 

WG giving randomly full pens to FR destroyers... "consistency is important for average player to keep up with the game" or what was it?

 

Still, serviceable camo, brutal torps, presumably solid gunnery (Ayyygle not so much, dunno about Le Trollible guns), no smoke, no heal, Baguette grade Engine  Boost and no overpen only...

 

[DFens_666]

3 minutes ago, Panocek said:

 

WG giving randomly full pens to FR destroyers... "consistency is important for average player to keep up with the game" or what was it?

 

Not sure how to react to WG nonsense these days. Its a bit of facepalming and helplessness

[Mr_Tayto]

I'd imagine it's down to how fast they are (and therefore hard to hit) and that they would seem to be ideal for fast ambushes and YOLO Toro runs on BBs - gotta have some counterplay to that as a BB.

 

Aigle and le terrible have terrible shell arcs, I would hope we don't get that again with the silver ships.

[rnat]

18 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

And I believe TA didn't exist back then. ^^

Used to be a 3 pointer (watched some old Eurobeat to confirm)

I remember that one because back then i thought 20km Shima torps+TA would be a brilliant idea.

(torpedo spotting range ? never heard of it, literally)

[Panocek]

23 minutes ago, Mr_Tayto said:

I'd imagine it's down to how fast they are (and therefore hard to hit) and that they would seem to be ideal for fast ambushes and YOLO Toro runs on BBs - gotta have some counterplay to that as a BB.

 

Aigle and le terrible have terrible shell arcs, I would hope we don't get that again with the silver ships.

First, why yolo when they have more than enough range on torps making IJN derpstroyers jelly?

 

And considering entire line is going to use the same guns as Ayyygle (T6 and T7) and Trollible (T8 onwards), you're free to ditch AFT for CE. Combined with more than workable base rudder shift, you can safely take Camo Mod1, so you end up with 6.3? 6.5? surface detection. Enough for some Need4TorpedoBeat montages while capable of delivering considerable dakka on your own.

[NothingButTheRain]

9 hours ago, Toivia said:

I was not arguing they are OP, I was arguing why they are frustrating to play against. That is the important difference. Similarly it is hard to say that globally, Asashio is OP, because it is potentially limited to spotting in a cruiser heavy MM. Yet if it has many BBs against it, it is absurdly powerful even if the BBs try to maneuver and angle against the likely direction torps will be coming from. Why? 16 torps that only get spotted too late for any last second evasion and that cover too large of an area. That's frustrating.

I was actually (also) arguing that they are not frustrating to play against.

[Toivia]

Hmm, don't see any arguments in that post of yours.

[Capra76]

7 hours ago, Panocek said:

And considering entire line is going to use the same guns as Ayyygle (T6 and T7) and Trollible (T8 onwards), you're free to ditch AFT for CE

 

Not quite.

 

Aigle plus the T6/7 silver ships use the 1929 gun with its 700 m/s muzzle velocity, T8 and onwards (and I think this includes Le Terrible) get the 1934 gun with 840 m/s so AFT might be viable.

[Panocek]

3 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

Not quite.

 

Aigle plus the T6/7 silver ships use the 1929 gun with its 700 m/s muzzle velocity, T8 and onwards (and I think this includes Le Terrible) get the 1934 gun with 840 m/s so AFT might be viable.

Looking at recent-ish Le Trollible gameplays, she seems to have about 8s@12km, no footage running AFT though so no idea what time to impact would be at max range. Around 11-12s? Can't have baguettes outrussian Russian gunboats anyway, thats for sure

[Desteban]

7 hours ago, Panocek said:

Looking at recent-ish Le Trollible gameplays, she seems to have about 8s@12km, no footage running AFT though so no idea what time to impact would be at max range. Around 11-12s? Can't have baguettes outrussian Russian gunboats anyway, thats for sure

Yeah, I tried her with AFT but that was a futile effort. As much as I wanted her to be a RU like gunboat she is way better at hit and run tactics.

Her AP is ridiculous at close range and with the reload booster you can hurt ships with an easy to hit citadel quite hard. Killed a full HP Aoba in a single drive by...

[ReapingKnight]

Maybe they should have a unique smoke similar to the RN Cruisers but less duration.

 

Like 5-10 action time, and 20-40 second duration. So they can only use it to disengage from fights.

[creamgravy]

40 minutes ago, ReapingKnight said:

Maybe they should have a unique smoke similar to the RN Cruisers but less duration.

 

Like 5-10 action time, and 20-40 second duration. So they can only use it to disengage from fights.

 

10s action time with 40s duration smoke sounds familiar...

 

21 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I'm pretty sure T8 Fubuki used to have 15km running at 57kn. Don't remember their concealment tho.

 

 

1.8km. Easy to dodge but everyone sailed broadside at 1/2 speed, zoomed in back then...

[DFens_666]

48 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

An additional clarification of the CV MM by Sub_Octavian:

 

Oh i can make fake data which shows what would happen if we would limit CVs to 1 per side - But its not real

WTF? seriously WTF???

 

I think this would only make sense, if majority of games would have 2CVs in it (which i doubt). Ofc which would happen is, that most games would have CVs in it (wasnt that what they were going for anyway?). But since there are games without CV too, i cant take him seriously.

 

Yesterday played 5x T7 games - 1 had 1 CV /side in it. And 3x T5 games with one game having double CV /side, the others no CV... I really dont think they are telling the truth. Talking about prime time too, evening that is.

Even more so, when lowtiers have more CVs in it compared to Hightiers, which they admit themselves

[El2aZeR]

- High tier CV numbers are roughly equal to pre-rework state

- Pre-rework one CV per team system did not lead to overcrowding

- "We can't change CV MM to one per team because it would lead to overcrowding."

 

[ImperialAdmiral]

On 3/26/2019 at 1:15 PM, Verdius said:

Bayard only having 13mm plating with no heal or smoke just looks bad. Its basically a worse more squishy Cleveland without radar.

 

French DD concept just looks terrbible imho (pun intended)

Only having engine boost, no smoke, on tiers 2-5 is going to be craptastic

Beyond that the T9 and T10 have just have such terrible reload that their ability to actually gunboat is going to suffer a lot. Not having any defensive tools aside from speed is going to make them really annoying to play, and depending on their balistics is going to cripple them.

You might be right. Majority of my Le Terrible damage came from torps. Le Terrible is a garbage gunboat and even with the reload booster. 

[Aragathor]

14 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

- High tier CV numbers are roughly equal to pre-rework state

- Pre-rework one CV per team system did not lead to overcrowding

- "We can't change CV MM to one per team because it would lead to overcrowding."

 

Looking at what WG employees are saying, is like looking at someone caught up in their own lies. You just can't do anything but shake your head in disbelief.

[Panocek]

18 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

- High tier CV numbers are roughly equal to pre-rework state

- Pre-rework one CV per team system did not lead to overcrowding

- "We can't change CV MM to one per team because it would lead to overcrowding."

 

Logic 404 not found

[NothingButTheRain]

17 hours ago, Toivia said:

Hmm, don't see any arguments in that post of yours.

Yes there is. The argument is that they are not annoying or frustrating to play against.

It is an argument because your argument is basically that they are frustrating and annoying to play against, for no good reason at all.

 

I don't need to find a reason why they are not annoying, you need to find a reason why they are indeed annoying.

[NothingButTheRain]

On 3/25/2019 at 6:58 PM, wilkatis_LV said:

Didn't I answer? Must have slipped me

They're annoying and frustrating to play against because of what they bring to the table. But, ofc, that doesn't make them strong or weak, that just makes them annoying / frustrating.

And kinda similar to the critisism I pointedout towards @Toivia, you still haven't said what they then bring to the table. Saying "what they bring to the table" ends up being exactly as uninformative as "they are frustrating and annoying to play against, just because I said so".

 

So far both of your opinions sound like hypocritic horsedung to me 

[NothingButTheRain]

I mean, if I see a Conqueror on the enemy team, it gives me absolutely no extra negative feelings whatsoever, nor do I find it frustrating or annoying to play against one. There is absolutely nothing annoying about fighting them.

 

Frankly, I think the people who do find them annoying and cry about the HE BBs are doing just that: Crying. I don't think they should be taken seriously.

 

Personally, I've come to the stance that the RN BBs should remain as they are, if only because the sound of the crybabies giving WG their feedback deserves to become a bit more humble. They are wanting to turn this game into another World of Tears. Lets not 

[Uglesett]

27 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

It is an argument because your argument is basically that they are frustrating and annoying to play against, for no good reason at all.

 

I don't need to find a reason why they are not annoying, you need to find a reason why they are indeed annoying.

Why, though?

 

I mean, if they supply further specific reasons (beyond the ones brought up previously) for why they find them frustrating and annoying, you're still going to consider those reasons to be subjective. And if you want "objective" arguments, then there's pretty much nothing to discuss about the game, ever.

 

For example, take this:

Quote

RN BBs are frustrating to play against because you get wrecked no matter what you do and cannot really do the same to them, provided you both are of similar skill. If you are forced into an HE vs. HE fight (say you are both angled), RN BB wins. If you are both broadside, RN BB will not get citadelled while th other one potentially will (and if the RN BB keeps shooting HE, he will still do very high damage and get fires). Then there is the case of concealment. If somehow the RN BB is unlucky with RNG (fires, citadels), that one has the option to get unspotted and potentially keep the enemy spotted still, keeping the initiative and the moment of surprise.

It's a perfectly valid set of (yes, subjective) reasons for considering the RN BBs not OP, but irritating.

 

Because when you get down to it, this is an entertainment product. And the entertainment value is always going to be grounded in subjective opinions.

[Toivia]

Well, @NothingButTheRain, you're confusing arguments and statements. I supplied an argument and explained it with examples. If you don't want to read that, your choice, just don't say I didn't state any reason for why RN BBs are frustrating to play against when I actually did.

 

("x is/isn't frustrating to play against" is merely a statement of your opinion on a subject)

 

Btw, the testing of raised citadels on Conqueror and (somewhat surprisingly Monarch) would indicate WG is aware of issues with RN BBs and is allocating ressources to try and fix them. Which for once - and on a whole* -  I welcome.

 

*It would obviously be ridiculous if Monarch got a raised citadel making it subsceptible to get punished yet Lion stayed as is.

[Mr_Tayto]

Meh, I don't care about conqs in the enemy team either.

 

I care about my own conq, which is deathly effing boring to play. Just a pointless, boring ship.