[TTTX] Tyrendian89 [TTTX] Players 4,608 posts 8,139 battles Report post #14101 Posted March 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, Aragathor said: According to Sub they are looking at the Legendary Module and not the ship, because "we feel it contributes to her status a lot". As someone who has played CBs up to Typhoon I must say I haven't seen any HIV's with the LM, so I don't get where they are getting this. Am I missing something? Did the KOTS teams use only LM HIVs? I'd imagine CV spotting does contribute to making the loss of concealment a lot more viable (similar to how CE is arguably "only" a good pick, not a must-have, on BBs nowadays)... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Culiacan_Mexico Players 2,844 posts 14,993 battles Report post #14102 Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Aragathor said: Saw that post of his. And I'm wondering, if their tools are so great and better detailed, then why are they so bad at balancing? With data beyond our ability to see, they should be able to pinpoint issues and correct them, without resorting to heavy handed nerfs. And yet here we are, with YueYang being the least played T10 DD after Daring and having the second worst WR after Z-52. Something doesn't add up. How can us puny mortal expect to understand? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Culiacan_Mexico Players 2,844 posts 14,993 battles Report post #14103 Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, El2aZeR said: Quick summary of everything of importance I've seen so far: - CV rework "went more or less as planned" (LOL) Battle of Cannae went more or less as planned. Roman Senate August 216 1 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TTTX] Tyrendian89 [TTTX] Players 4,608 posts 8,139 battles Report post #14104 Posted March 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said: Battle of Cannae went more or less as planned. Roman Senate August 216 to be fair, that could also mean WG was already expecting it to be a bit of a mess complicated before they went into it... and things are just not worse than they thought they'd be 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[THROW] wilkatis_LV [THROW] Players 5,061 posts 10,702 battles Report post #14105 Posted March 25, 2019 4 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said: And there's nothing wrong with the British BBs. I even saw @wilkatis_LV state that the RN BBs were horrible to play against or something along those lines. So I asked him what made them so terrible to play against but I think he never responded? I don't see any problem with the RN BBs, they are actually adding something unique to the game and I think they should stay this way. Didn't I answer? Must have slipped me They're annoying and frustrating to play against because of what they bring to the table. But, ofc, that doesn't make them strong or weak, that just makes them annoying / frustrating. I too think RN BBs are perfectly fine, in fact I like their sAP significantly better than the normal AP every other BB gets 2 hours ago, Aragathor said: According to Sub they are looking at the Legendary Module and not the ship, because "we feel it contributes to her status a lot". As someone who has played CBs up to Typhoon I must say I haven't seen any HIV's with the LM, so I don't get where they are getting this. Am I missing something? Did the KOTS teams use only LM HIVs? You also forgot to mention the hard no to implementing a tutorial. The way I see that - most players never reach rating like Typhoon. Inevitably this means that "most played" ships come from down below, with the largest number of cases making up the "standard build". Doesn't mean they understand why they run it, doesn't mean they are even close to being correct. S-O mentioning "it's very popular" is what leads me to think this. They're not addressing what makes HIV so desirable (I have to ask - does WG even know?) , they're just going from "they use this a lot, must be the answer". And as another Typhoon clan player I can vouch for what you already said - I don't know / probably haven't seen anyone running LM on HIV in CB. It's fun for randoms, not competitive 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-FF-] elblancogringo Players 1,207 posts 7,342 battles Report post #14106 Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, El2aZeR said: - HIV competitive dominance has been noticed, will be addressed but no big nerfs Why are top teams using HIV a lot? Is it because it counters Stalingrad? If it's the case, I guess a slight nerf to Stalingrad is a good way to fix this issue... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CHEFT] DFens_666 Players 13,162 posts 11,029 battles Report post #14107 Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, elblancogringo said: Why are top teams using HIV a lot? Is it because it counters Stalingrad? If it's the case, I guess a slight nerf to Stalingrad is a good way to fix this issue... Stalingrad has been nerfed by introduction of CVs already. HIV is just the best package of everything. Fast, good guns, reloadbooster, even torps. With CVs, you cant just sit at Islands, so you need Cruisers which can open water gunboat. HIV is better than Hindenburg easily. And Zao suffers more from CVs i think. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[4_0_4] Zemeritt Players 9,337 posts 16,243 battles Report post #14108 Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, El2aZeR said: - CV rework "went more or less as planned" (LOL) - CV spotting is fine beyond initial spotting speed Suuuuure. 3 hours ago, El2aZeR said: - CV overall balance is largely fine. Individual CV, CV-DD interaction, AA sector mechanic and auto pilot changes are still planned Year of the rebalanced rework 2025? 3 hours ago, El2aZeR said: - premium CVs will be on sale in the near future So they can finally make cash again, properly the main reason for this rework? 3 hours ago, El2aZeR said: - 2 CVs per team is new hard limit, 3 CVs per team will likely be removed Amazing Not like the majority of players are already overwhelmed with a single CV 3 hours ago, El2aZeR said: - new CV AI is still wip Oh well. I doubt it'll be effective tho. Properly good to farm plane kills 3 hours ago, El2aZeR said: - UI improvements take a lot of time due to various factors Main factor: Doesn't create CA$H. 3 hours ago, El2aZeR said: - CA vs CL changes are still planned, took a backseat to rework etc. After the rework I fear the ideas of the devs. 3 hours ago, El2aZeR said: - no accuracy buff for German BBs (who the even asked for that?!) This kind: 3 hours ago, El2aZeR said: - no comment on subs Good. 3 hours ago, El2aZeR said: - no comment on AL collab phase 2 Of course not 3 hours ago, El2aZeR said: - MM tiering issues are being worked on Just no template system. 3 hours ago, El2aZeR said: - updates to old models is low priority due to more pressing issues Again, properly because: no CA$H 3 hours ago, El2aZeR said: - Stalingrad is a well balanced ship Of course she is Ever looked at the flag on the flagpole? 3 hours ago, Aragathor said: You also forgot to mention the hard no to implementing a tutorial Of course. Educated players properly do not spent as much money as a n00b, hoping to get advantages due to it. 2 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SICK] Exocet6951 Weekend Tester 5,151 posts 11,809 battles Report post #14109 Posted March 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, Zemeritt said: 3 hours ago, Aragathor said: You also forgot to mention the hard no to implementing a tutorial Of course. Educated players properly do not spent as much money as a n00b, hoping to get advantages due to it. "Player retention? The lower the number the better, right?" - WoWS strategy executives 1 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SparvieroVV Players 684 posts 73 battles Report post #14110 Posted March 25, 2019 5 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said: Why not ask Wargaming about this? They've been asked repeatedly only to get silence. We only know so much because of people fishing in the CIS forums. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DK-CP] NothingButTheRain Players 6,338 posts 14,259 battles Report post #14111 Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said: Didn't I answer? Must have slipped me They're annoying and frustrating to play against because of what they bring to the table. But, ofc, that doesn't make them strong or weak, that just makes them annoying / frustrating. I too think RN BBs are perfectly fine, in fact I like their sAP significantly better than the normal AP every other BB gets The way I see that - most players never reach rating like Typhoon. Inevitably this means that "most played" ships come from down below, with the largest number of cases making up the "standard build". Doesn't mean they understand why they run it, doesn't mean they are even close to being correct. S-O mentioning "it's very popular" is what leads me to think this. They're not addressing what makes HIV so desirable (I have to ask - does WG even know?) , they're just going from "they use this a lot, must be the answer". And as another Typhoon clan player I can vouch for what you already said - I don't know / probably haven't seen anyone running LM on HIV in CB. It's fun for randoms, not competitive I think DDs are more annoying and frustrating to play against (exept when I play DD myself, of course. CC is idc what DDs are concerned). I don't find the HE BBs frustrating or annoying to play against. I mean, -what- does them make annoying or frustrating to play against? Just because some people are complaining out of this air? Why then? Because that I don't understand, even though I read it a lot (well I read complaining a lot, because there's so much of it around). I hope HIV doesn't get nerfed. I'm not an expert but isn't part of the reason why it is so popular because it's the best counter vs a certain stalinium ship out there? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[T-N-T] Toivia Players 4,019 posts 23,935 battles Report post #14112 Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, NothingButTheRain said: I think DDs are more annoying and frustrating to play against (exept when I play DD myself, of course. CC is idc what DDs are concerned). I don't find the HE BBs frustrating or annoying to play against. I mean, -what- does them make annoying or frustrating to play against? Just because some people are complaining out of this air? Why then? Because that I don't understand, even though I read it a lot (well I read complaining a lot, because there's so much of it around). I hope HIV doesn't get nerfed. I'm not an expert but isn't part of the reason why it is so popular because it's the best counter vs a certain stalinium ship out there? Eveerybody has been explaining what is wrong with RN BBs for months, I don't understand how you could have missed it. RN BBs are frustrating to play against because you get wrecked no matter what you do and cannot really do the same to them, provided you both are of similar skill. If you are forced into an HE vs. HE fight (say you are both angled), RN BB wins. If you are both broadside, RN BB will not get citadelled while th other one potentially will (and if the RN BB keeps shooting HE, he will still do very high damage and get fires). Then there is the case of concealment. If somehow the RN BB is unlucky with RNG (fires, citadels), that one has the option to get unspotted and potentially keep the enemy spotted still, keeping the initiative and the moment of surprise. HIV is AFAIK popular for a number of reasons: 1) decent vs. CVs; 2) comparatively great DPM versus anything on the seas thanks to overmatch (over RN cruisers), HE pen with IFHE (counters all that unusual 50mm and lower plating german BBs, US BBs on their decks and soviet cruisers and BBs get); 3) is a fast ship capable of making plays when needed (Main battery reload booster + torps + speed + even solid AP can allow to outplay more varied opponents than other cruisers can). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PFFC] MRGTB [PFFC] Players 1,285 posts Report post #14113 Posted March 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, Toivia said: If you are both broadside, RN BB will not get citadelled No, all depends which RN BB you are in. Actually, many RN BB are easy to cit when broadside on to you. Take Nelson, Vanguard, Hood. All three BB are known to be weak if they go broadside against the likes of American or German BB's which are far more durable. They will wreck you with AP shots. The main strength of RN BB is avoiding flashing the broadside and shooting HE at range to burn other nations BB. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[T-N-T] Toivia Players 4,019 posts 23,935 battles Report post #14114 Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, MRGTB said: No, all depends which RN BB you are in. Actually, many RN BB are easy to cit when broadside on to you. Take Nelson, Vanguard, Hood. All three BB are known to be weak if they go broadside against the likes of American or German BB's which are far more durable. They will wreck you with AP shots. The main strength of RN BB is avoiding flashing the broadside and shooting HE at range to burn other nations BB. Umm, we are talking the main line ones here. Those do still have very submerged citadels. So far, that is. There are tests running with finally extending their citadels at the waterline or even slightly higher. (Currently Conqueror and Monarch are tested.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PFFC] MRGTB [PFFC] Players 1,285 posts Report post #14115 Posted March 25, 2019 Hmm... Suppose so then. I guess most of the tech tree (non premium) BB are nothing like those 3 premium RN BB mentioned thinking about it. No, they don't have very weak citadels like them 3 ships. But what I find with a lot of RN BB is that the AP isn't anything like as good at range compared to German, Japan and French and American BB. They lack the pen shooting at range with AP that tends to force you into using HE at range and save using AP only when close in brawling. The AP then is actually pretty good for pen when fighting close in. But at distance you get way to many shatters and bounces with RN BB shooting AP at range. So it's not that RN BB players like to spam HE all the time, it's just that the AP is pretty useless at far distance. HE is the better ammo to use then on RN BB against other BB, unless shooting at Cruisers or DD 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DK-CP] NothingButTheRain Players 6,338 posts 14,259 battles Report post #14116 Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Toivia said: Eveerybody has been explaining what is wrong with RN BBs for months, I don't understand how you could have missed it. RN BBs are frustrating to play against because you get wrecked no matter what you do and cannot really do the same to them, provided you both are of similar skill. If you are forced into an HE vs. HE fight (say you are both angled), RN BB wins. If you are both broadside, RN BB will not get citadelled while th other one potentially will (and if the RN BB keeps shooting HE, he will still do very high damage and get fires). Then there is the case of concealment. If somehow the RN BB is unlucky with RNG (fires, citadels), that one has the option to get unspotted and potentially keep the enemy spotted still, keeping the initiative and the moment of surprise. And all these advantages are offset by other factors as these ships are not OP. So you have to be missing something here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[POMF] Verdius Beta Tester 1,989 posts 4,247 battles Report post #14117 Posted March 26, 2019 13 hours ago, drmajga said: Giulio and D´Aosta were no problems since these ships were transferred to the Soviet Union, including their plans. So WG got the plans from Russian archives. Regarding Roma and Abruzzi i am not sure... Maybe WG created Abruzzi with an eye on Aosta´s plans since they were half-sisters. Also the fact that Italy "fell apart" mid-war and lost its construction-bureau to plan new mega-ships (which would fit TX in Wows) leaves some blank spots for high-tier material. (Just guessing here) Don't forget that they are putting Leone into the game. Also considering WG made Hindenburg and Roon based on nothing but a sketch for a turret I don't see a problem, especially since there are design studies that could easily fit T9 and T10, like Ansaldo design proposals for a 3x3 250mm gun cruiser which seems quite in line for a T10. Or these for T9 Spoiler 3x3 203mm gun cruiser and a 4x3 152mm cruiser respectively, both with torp launchers Maybe slap a 1950s fictional AA refit on the things if needed 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SparvieroVV Players 684 posts 73 battles Report post #14118 Posted March 26, 2019 Quote Also the fact that Italy "fell apart" mid-war and lost its construction-bureau to plan new mega-ships (which would fit TX in Wows) leaves some blank spots for high-tier material. (Just guessing here) I was actually surprised how much effort was placed on the Impero conversion long after it was viable. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F3WVPKX As the designs shown in here look much more advanced than the hydro model found at the museum in Venezia. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[T-N-T] Toivia Players 4,019 posts 23,935 battles Report post #14119 Posted March 26, 2019 9 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said: And all these advantages are offset by other factors as these ships are not OP. So you have to be missing something here. I was not arguing they are OP, I was arguing why they are frustrating to play against. That is the important difference. Similarly it is hard to say that globally, Asashio is OP, because it is potentially limited to spotting in a cruiser heavy MM. Yet if it has many BBs against it, it is absurdly powerful even if the BBs try to maneuver and angle against the likely direction torps will be coming from. Why? 16 torps that only get spotted too late for any last second evasion and that cover too large of an area. That's frustrating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[R3B3L] HystericalAccuracy Players 1,505 posts 40,425 battles Report post #14120 Posted March 26, 2019 10 hours ago, Verdius said: there are design studies that could easily fit T9 and T10, like Ansaldo design proposals I take it they seem to fit high tiers very well! Didn´t know about these, so thank you for sharing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TORAZ] El2aZeR Beta Tester 15,786 posts 26,801 battles Report post #14121 Posted March 26, 2019 According to this: https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/b5odmz/082_st_fr_dd_tree_and_poi_are_coming_datamined/ Kleber will take full damage from BB AP pens. Kek. Also I think Yuudachi has OLD FUBUKI TORPS! (15km range, 57kn, NO DW) YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] WolfGewehr Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters 2,844 posts 11,496 battles Report post #14122 Posted March 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, El2aZeR said: Also I think Yuudachi has OLD FUBUKI TORPS! (15km range, 57kn, NO DW) YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[AAO] rnat Players 1,597 posts 21,919 battles Report post #14123 Posted March 26, 2019 28 minutes ago, El2aZeR said: Also I think Yuudachi has OLD FUBUKI TORPS! (15km range, 57kn, NO DW) YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! 1) 57knots/2.5km detectability. This is literally worse than the 20km set on the Shima. 2) How old exactly is that ? Pretty sure she didn't have those when she was my No1 love-boat at T8. (either that or i ran TA on her and am too crap to remember ^^) 3) Iirc they mentioned that they are envisioning an Asashio-like play style for her, so i wouldn't take DW out of the equation yet. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[POMF] Verdius Beta Tester 1,989 posts 4,247 battles Report post #14124 Posted March 26, 2019 43 minutes ago, El2aZeR said: According to this: https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/b5odmz/082_st_fr_dd_tree_and_poi_are_coming_datamined/ Kleber will take full damage from BB AP pens. No smoke no heal. Old mid tier IJN gun reload. Kleber just looks sad. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DREAD] 1MajorKoenig Players 13,110 posts 7,885 battles Report post #14125 Posted March 26, 2019 17 hours ago, Zemeritt said: Amazing Not like the majority of players are already overwhelmed with a single CV Some players are already overwhelmed by moving their ship out of spawn. You can’t go by this 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
