Discussion thread for "some interesting info around the world"

[SparvieroVV]

1 hour ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

Horseshit. We know for a fact that the UK was actually quite open with their archives, it just didn't line up with what WG wanted. They chose to not go through with what they got from the archives so that they could theorycraft some HE bbs instead.

 

Besides, they've has proven that they have absolutely no qualms about just making crap up (RU bbs), regardless of how [edited]ridiculous it is (Lyon). Considering how joyless these French dds seem to be, it seems to me that it was just easier for them. Why put effort into a line of Italian Heavy cruisers when you can copy/paste the french gimmick into the line they don't have yet? regardless of the fact that that gimmick is self-destructively worthless for that class of ships?

 

It is laziness, plain and simple.

So why are you getting angry at me. I stated the issue lies more with Lesta and proper planning.

[Makoniel]

15 minutes ago, fumtu said:

 

You have to take into consideration that unlike US or UK, French didn't have a chance to build ships during the better part of WW2 simply because they were occupied. And it is not like it is completely imaginary class too

 

 

1

But I totally do, and as a french, navy enthusiast, I know of the mogador class and its improvement.. Still, I think they missed an opportunity here. I still believe ships being planned and not laid down are not real. 
And it makes real, existing ships sit in forgotten tiers. Who would play TIX if it wasn't for the grind/economic bonuses from premium? 

[fumtu]

3 minutes ago, Okitank said:

But I totally do, and as a french, navy enthusiast, I know of the mogador class and its improvement.. Still, I think they missed an opportunity here. I still believe ships being planned and not laid down are not real. 
And it makes real, existing ships sit in forgotten tiers. Who would play TIX if it wasn't for the grind/economic bonuses from premium? 

 

Well If WG goes with that logic then we could have 4 lines, maybe two or three more and that would be that. No French BBs, not a single German or Soviet lines, French cruisers, RN BBs ... We would already be out of new content except tons and tons and tons of Fletchers, Clemsons, Wickes and Gearings. That would be fun.

[Makoniel]

Hey, I'm not saying they shouldn't do it, I'm just saying they are currently OVERdoing it. I really do not understand the need to put a slightly improved mogador at TX when the real one is here and IS tier X material. 

(And less soviet ships wouldn't be that bad, it's not like their navy was relevant, and yet they'll get their full tree before the Italian Navy, who they copied for most of their actual designs, even get one branch. THIS is what hits my nerves.)

[Panocek]

3 minutes ago, Okitank said:

Hey, I'm not saying they shouldn't do it, I'm just saying they are currently OVERdoing it. I really do not understand the need to put a slightly improved mogador at TX when the real one is here and IS tier X material. 

(And less soviet ships wouldn't be that bad, it's not like their navy was relevant, and yet they'll get their full tree before the Italian Navy, who they copied for most of their actual designs, even get one branch. THIS is what hits my nerves.)

Russians have their own server, unlike Italians

[FishDogFoodShack]

1 hour ago, SparvieroVV said:

So why are you getting angry at me. I stated the issue lies more with Lesta and proper planning.

 

I'm not angry with you.

 

You're right that it is their fault, but not being given access to archival records is something they've blatantly lied about before.

[HaachamaShipping]

3 hours ago, CptBarney said:

They should of given poi, 8km torps with smoke and maybe MRBR. Or maybe a really good AA suite along with any of those three options.

 

the asashio thing is lazy.

Giving it 8 km torps but both consumables would be something, keeping it's power level firmly in check too. Even normal DWT are a bit less crippling, but 15 km Asashio torps... it's like Yuudachi was some DD known for sitting behind the main lines safely torping BBs from stand-off range. And asashio has shown how toxic it becomes for both teams.

 

AA would never be a thing, as regardless of how many 25 mm guns you put on a ship, their range sucks too much.

[creamgravy]

5 hours ago, Okitank said:

I keep seeing people say the tiers are historically correct. Why? The TX never existed again. The improved Mogador class was never laid down. And both Mogador sank in 1942, never receiving the fantasy tripod mast + radar. So I'm really wondering why the Mogador itself isn't TX, as the improvements over it are not relevant in game.
(And, Actually the first 100% historically correct line is RN DDs, which, if I remember correctly, do not have any papership in. Aand, of course, US Carriers.) 

 

Historically correct as in all ships are fighting at roughly the correct tier, with the correct weapons and are the same type. There's no WW1 DD at tier 6, 1960s paper crap at tier 10, torp boat balanced as a gunboat etc.

Trying to balance ships/weapons at the wrong tier/class is almost impossible and creates problems across the board.

 

Isn't Fuselier is paper/fantasy Bourrasque plem design with 4 x 100mm guns?

 

The RN DD line is rubbish. Most are under tiered torpboats balanced to fit a gunboat gimmick. Lightning should be in a separate gunboat line with actual gunboat leaders like Jian Wei, Tribal etc. Low tier fire the wrong shells etc.

[invicta2012]

3 minutes ago, creamgravy said:

Isn't Fuselier is paper/fantasy Bourrasque plem design with 4 x 100mm guns?

I think she's one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M89-class_destroyer

[ImperialAdmiral]

And still no Italians... 

 

This is not even funny at this point. It is pathetic that they still don't have at least one line.

[Makoniel]

Fuselier seem like a fantasy ship indeed. 

 

And what pains me is that the line could have been even more historically correct. Replace Mogador with Le Hardi (that is actually a lighter Mogador with 3x2 of the same guns, still better than Fantasque, yet, worse than Moga, would give a true sensation of upgrade), and put Mogador at tier X, and your line is full of ships that sailed. ... Maaaybe except the tier II and III, which I do not understand why they are not actual WW1 designs. 
(Which were quite garbage, indeed.)

[fumtu]

17 minutes ago, Okitank said:

Replace Mogador with Le Hardi (that is actually a lighter Mogador with 3x2 of the same guns, still better than Fantasque, yet, worse than Moga, would give a true sensation of upgrade)

 

Guns are not the same. Le Hardi class had 130mm guns while Mogador had 139mm guns. Considering that all French DDs starting from T6 have 139mm guns, 130mm would be deviation.

[HaachamaShipping]

2 hours ago, creamgravy said:

 

Historically correct as in all ships are fighting at roughly the correct tier, with the correct weapons and are the same type. There's no WW1 DD at tier 6, 1960s paper crap at tier 10, torp boat balanced as a gunboat etc.

Trying to balance ships/weapons at the wrong tier/class is almost impossible and creates problems across the board.

That's why Mogami coexists with Mikhail Kutuzov and Amagi shares her tier with all those 30s designs of BB. And the Prinz Eitel Friedrich was historically planned to be a most ridiculous AA ship and totally wouldn't have been justified to be a T5.

[Zemeritt]

So Yuudachi gets the Asashio treatment?

BB/CV only torps are a hideous design.

 

I hope they think this one over.

 

 

Glorious soviet BB-Line gets of course another T10 prem

This appeasement of the russian market is getting dull rather fast.

 

And a torpedo US DD at T9 aswell. I smell TRB with DWTs

[Toivia]

What I still fail to understand is how WG was able to code Roma, Giulio Cesare, Duca d'Aosta and Duca degli Abruzzi while supposedly not having access to Italian archives yet they are not able to complete a single tech line.

I mean, either they need actual precise information to actually create a ship or they can do without the archives. Did they create the four ships just based on generally known info yet unwilling to do other ships? Or do they actually have all the info they need and simply don't feel like releasing italian lines?

[Exocet6951]

2 hours ago, ImperialAdmiral said:

And still no Italians... 

 

This is not even funny at this point. It is pathetic that they still don't have at least one line.

 

 

In before T8 premium cruiser Duca Kekosta with 4x3 152mm guns with even less AP performance than the Abruzzi and Aosta, and an even bigger citadel.

 

[cicciolorenz]

14 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

 

In before T8 premium cruiser Duca Kekosta with 4x3 152mm guns with even less AP performance than the Abruzzi and Aosta, and an even bigger citadel.

 

AA: 2x2 13.2 mm

        4x1 40mm pom pom

        12x1 Beretta shotguns 

[ImperialAdmiral]

31 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

 

In before T8 premium cruiser Duca Kekosta with 4x3 152mm guns with even less AP performance than the Abruzzi and Aosta, and an even bigger citadel.

 

Wargaimig is really treating Regia Marina fans like dog crap.

"Let's introduce Pan Asian cruisers before 4th largest navy of WWII that had interesting ships and was meaningful."

 

Edit: And yes I am pissed as the customer of their product since I'm waiting for almost 4 years for that line.

[josykay]

2 hours ago, fumtu said:

 

Guns are not the same. Le Hardi class had 130mm guns while Mogador had 139mm guns. Considering that all French DDs starting from T6 have 139mm guns, 130mm would be deviation.

Well, German DDs have plenty of deviations as well. It is at 105 at Tier 5, goes to 150 at tier 6,  to 128 at tier 7, to 150 at tier 8 again, and then goes back to 128.

So it is certainly not outside the realm of possibilities.

And then we got a Tier 6 Premium with 128 mm and a Tier 7 one with 150...

 

Some tech trees pretty much do not care about "avoid deviation" or "consistent caliber growth".

[creamgravy]

The Italian line will cost the most $$ to create.

 

3 hours ago, Okitank said:

Fuselier seem like a fantasy ship indeed. 

 

And what pains me is that the line could have been even more historically correct. Replace Mogador with Le Hardi (that is actually a lighter Mogador with 3x2 of the same guns, still better than Fantasque, yet, worse than Moga, would give a true sensation of upgrade), and put Mogador at tier X, and your line is full of ships that sailed. ... Maaaybe except the tier II and III, which I do not understand why they are not actual WW1 designs. 
(Which were quite garbage, indeed.)

 

5 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

I think she's one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M89-class_destroyer

 

Fuselier is too new/small for M89 (or Lion)

 

Le Hardi is a torpilleurs (torpedo boat/fleet destroyer) not a contre-torpilleurs (counter torpedo boat/fast scout) That line is harder to fill, something like this?

 

Enseigne Gabolde > Fuselier   > Bourrasque  > L'Adroit >                 >                    > Le Hardi (comparable to J-class/Benson) > ? > ?

                                    M89 refit > Lion 139mm > Jaguar > Guépard > Vauquelin > Le Fantasque > Mogador > Kléber 

 

 

[Chaos_Umbra]

4 hours ago, Toivia said:

What I still fail to understand is how WG was able to code Roma, Giulio Cesare, Duca d'Aosta and Duca degli Abruzzi while supposedly not having access to Italian archives yet they are not able to complete a single tech line.

I mean, either they need actual precise information to actually create a ship or they can do without the archives. Did they create the four ships just based on generally known info yet unwilling to do other ships? Or do they actually have all the info they need and simply don't feel like releasing italian lines?

The reason they had access to those ships is that 2 were given as reparations to the Soviet Union, one is a sub class of one such ship and the Roma had a version of some of the designs for the class as part of a design study sent to the Soviet Union in the 1930s.

 

That's probably why those ships were able to be put into the game earlier.

[SparvieroVV]

4 hours ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

 

In before T8 premium cruiser Duca Kekosta with 4x3 152mm guns with even less AP performance than the Abruzzi and Aosta, and an even bigger citadel.

 

That would be if Lesta finds the paper napkin where the MMI dreamed of turning Abruzzi into an AA cruiser with 4 x 3 135/45 dp turrets. I don't think it ever went past that stage?

 

If WG doubles down on the current cruiser setup for CLs

 

Ciano in one of these forms for tier VIII

 

 

 

Unfortunately or not since this will probably go for the Pan-EU line, since Lesta claims they can't find anything high tier for Italy, we are probably safe?

 

[fumtu]

7 hours ago, josykay said:

Well, German DDs have plenty of deviations as well. It is at 105 at Tier 5, goes to 150 at tier 6,  to 128 at tier 7, to 150 at tier 8 again, and then goes back to 128.

So it is certainly not outside the realm of possibilities.

And then we got a Tier 6 Premium with 128 mm and a Tier 7 one with 150...

 

Some tech trees pretty much do not care about "avoid deviation" or "consistent caliber growth".

 

Not exactly. German DDs also had uniform gun caliber starting from T6, 128mm. Gaeda and Z-23 had OPTION to use 150mm guns but you can finish their grind without even researching them. I prefer Z-23 with 128mm over 150mm because I don't think that 150mm are better option even tho they give one more gun.

 

Also premium ships don't need to follow their regular counterparts. Use them as a reference is useless.

 

I expect that Le Hardi would be premium DD or maybe part of the sub-branch to T-47/T-53 which could be French torpedoboats.

[fallenkezef]

9 hours ago, ImperialAdmiral said:

Wargaimig is really treating Regia Marina fans like dog crap.

"Let's introduce Pan Asian cruisers before 4th largest navy of WWII that had interesting ships and was meaningful."

 

Edit: And yes I am pissed as the customer of their product since I'm waiting for almost 4 years for that line.

 

It was the same for the Brits, we had to wait and watch line after line until the 2nd most significant navy of WW2 turned up.

[josykay]

2 hours ago, fumtu said:

 

Not exactly. German DDs also had uniform gun caliber starting from T6, 128mm. Gaeda and Z-23 had OPTION to use 150mm guns but you can finish their grind without even researching them. I prefer Z-23 with 128mm over 150mm because I don't think that 150mm are better option even tho they give one more gun.

 

Also premium ships don't need to follow their regular counterparts. Use them as a reference is useless.

 

I expect that Le Hardi would be premium DD or maybe part of the sub-branch to T-47/T-53 which could be French torpedoboats.

Weirdly enough, the Type 1936 A (To which Z 23 belongs) never had 4x1 128 mm guns. The earlier models had 4x1 150mm guns due to delays in the construction of the turret, but most  were later converted to the intended model. Type 1936 B had, like earlier ships again, 5x128 mm guns, and Type 1936 C (Known ingame aus Z 46) was supposed to use 3x2  128mm guns.

WG could in theory have made the complete techtree without 150 mm guns.

 

They could have used Type 1936 B for Tier 8 instead. But guess, those were to similiar to Mass. And give them a uniform caliber. Guess, the use of Z 23 comes down to the fact, that Type 1936 A had 15 ships completed, while Type 1936 B had only 3, so obviously the first one is the much better known one.