[POPPY] Chaos_Umbra [POPPY] Players 1,662 posts 20,300 battles Report post #13951 Posted March 1, 2019 24 minutes ago, Toivia said: Also, are they actually trying to make RN BBs normal BBs now? First they test citadels, now they test normal AP pen. Next they will have more Normal HE and might be able to hit the broadside of a barn from within the barn... Came to the conclusion that the reason you don't use AP is that 90% of time you would have done more with HE as you don't need to hit a specific part of the ship like with AP, so to balance the OP HE they made the guns inaccurate to compensate and this is why the HE spam exists... Well if the Line gets normalized I might actually start enjoying them, cause atm the only RN BBs I enjoy playing are Warspite, Hood and Vanguard, all of which are more normal BBs in terms of guns. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spunyarn Players 533 posts Report post #13952 Posted March 1, 2019 4 hours ago, fumtu said: Georgia: AP pen is very similar to Conqueror's 457mm Wut? So much for my comment that a shame that the RN couldn't buy some "proper" AP from the USN... 4 hours ago, fumtu said: Test version of Conqueror 419mm, Monarch: These experimental ships are now equipped with normal fuse AP. Wut? Wut? Okay, I could be wrong but I thought one of the attractions of Vanguard was that she got normal AP? Which got undercut when Hood got normal AP (on top of the improved autobounce angles), and would be really undercut if Monarch also got normal AP... Plus a common suggestion for how to make the 457s on Conqueror more attractive has been to give them better AP, so the 419s can be higher theoretical dpm and better fire-starters but the 457s would be more reliable for AP work. So WG are testing the 419s with one of the things suggested for the 457s and which when applied to the Hood's guns was called a buff? "We'll make Georgia's AP as bad as Conqueror's 457s, and make Conqueror's 419s better so that is even worse by comparison..." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[POPPY] Chaos_Umbra [POPPY] Players 1,662 posts 20,300 battles Report post #13953 Posted March 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Johmie said: Okay, I could be wrong but I thought one of the attractions of Vanguard was that she got normal AP? Which got undercut when Hood got normal AP (on top of the improved autobounce angles), and would be really undercut if Monarch also got normal AP... The Vanguard still has the Rudder and Accuracy going for it as the Silver ships feel less accurate than a Scharnhorst... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[T-N-T] Toivia Players 4,019 posts 23,935 battles Report post #13954 Posted March 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Chaos_Umbra said: Next they will have more Normal HE and might be able to hit the broadside of a barn from within the barn... Came to the conclusion that the reason you don't use AP is that 90% of time you would have done more with HE as you don't need to hit a specific part of the ship like with AP, so to balance the OP HE they made the guns inaccurate to compensate and this is why the HE spam exists... Well if the Line gets normalized I might actually start enjoying them, cause atm the only RN BBs I enjoy playing are Warspite, Hood and Vanguard, all of which are more normal BBs in terms of guns. I mean that is pretty accurate. I kept trying AP with all the line. But I kept being so underwhelmed with the absolutely horrendous dispersion (so the usual 1 overpen per AP salvo) that simply throwing HE at the general direction of enemies ends up being a more effective choice most of the time. Half the time you still miss, but the other half, you get a fire and decent DMG, no matter where you hit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PEZ] Yedwy Players 11,301 posts 39,586 battles Report post #13955 Posted March 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Johmie said: Wut? So much for my comment that a shame that the RN couldn't buy some "proper" AP from the USN... Wut? Wut? Okay, I could be wrong but I thought one of the attractions of Vanguard was that she got normal AP? Which got undercut when Hood got normal AP (on top of the improved autobounce angles), and would be really undercut if Monarch also got normal AP... Plus a common suggestion for how to make the 457s on Conqueror more attractive has been to give them better AP, so the 419s can be higher theoretical dpm and better fire-starters but the 457s would be more reliable for AP work. So WG are testing the 419s with one of the things suggested for the 457s and which when applied to the Hood's guns was called a buff? "We'll make Georgia's AP as bad as Conqueror's 457s, and make Conqueror's 419s better so that is even worse by comparison..." When did Vanguard have normal AP? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #13956 Posted March 1, 2019 47 minutes ago, Yedwy said: When did Vanguard have normal AP? Since her introduction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darth_Glorious Beta Tester 2,464 posts Report post #13957 Posted March 1, 2019 Georgia has very bad rear gun firing angle at close range (~5km) due to the guns being blocked by AA mounts. it needs to angle ~50 deg to shoot full broadside at that range Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humorpalanta ∞ Players 2,025 posts 13,785 battles Report post #13958 Posted March 1, 2019 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NAN0] HaachamaShipping Players 8,474 posts 10,052 battles Report post #13959 Posted March 1, 2019 7 hours ago, Johmie said: Wut? Wut? Okay, I could be wrong but I thought one of the attractions of Vanguard was that she got normal AP? Which got undercut when Hood got normal AP (on top of the improved autobounce angles), and would be really undercut if Monarch also got normal AP... I mean, at least Vanguard has proper penetration, because Hood at range just relies on overmatching upper belt. Vs Monarch, Vanguard is more accurate and maneuverable. And Monarch got its citadel raised, so the difference there also becomes less pronounced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PEZ] Yedwy Players 11,301 posts 39,586 battles Report post #13960 Posted March 1, 2019 Well they changed hood shells recently? As for vanguard it somehow always feels to me like his shells are better for cruiser blapping and somehow dont do that good a job on bbs and that in wows usually means some shenanigans was done with penetration and/or fuse timers but I might be wrong there? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DK-CP] NothingButTheRain Players 6,338 posts 14,259 battles Report post #13961 Posted March 1, 2019 8 hours ago, Toivia said: It's all the more fun when you remember Conway or Sehales (EDIT: It was SubOctavian, see below) commenting that Missouri radar will not be buffed because it is already strong. https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/111990-surveillance-radar-interface-improvement-flooding/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-2833589 Also, are they actually trying to make RN BBs normal BBs now? First they test citadels, now they test normal AP pen. I'm not liking the latter part. Conqueror is unique in how it plays and is not OP. It's also a good coice for certain missions and come on, if it becomes just another tier 10 like any of the other more bland ones, then what would be its point? Frankly, I think Conq is fine as she is now. The people whining about her are mostly players that also whine about other ships or ship classes due to personal reasons (like how Flamu hates carriers). Frankly, when I play the Conq, the BB I like to see on the enemy team the most by far! Is another Conq! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DK-CP] NothingButTheRain Players 6,338 posts 14,259 battles Report post #13962 Posted March 1, 2019 8 hours ago, Chaos_Umbra said: Next they will have more Normal HE and might be able to hit the broadside of a barn from within the barn... Came to the conclusion that the reason you don't use AP is that 90% of time you would have done more with HE as you don't need to hit a specific part of the ship like with AP, so to balance the OP HE they made the guns inaccurate to compensate and this is why the HE spam exists... Well if the Line gets normalized I might actually start enjoying them, cause atm the only RN BBs I enjoy playing are Warspite, Hood and Vanguard, all of which are more normal BBs in terms of guns. I think there's another reason for the HE spam in Conqueror: I actually purposefully spam almost exclusively HE with Conq because I want the change in gameplay. All other tier 10 BBs are already better with AP and I hardly ever use HE in them (well, maybe a little bit more after BB AP got nerfed but I still prefer AP with virtually all battleships except the Conq). Making Conq into another AP BB will only remove one of the gameplays I enjoy from the game and Conq will become more a mediocre bland and boring white sheep. The superheal is ok, it makes Conq be able to tanka lot of HE spam which can really help the team, if played correctly. I would actually enjoy the brit BBs less if it were to be turned into another BB AP line. You can play literally all other BB lines in the way that you like. Gimme HSM Thunderer! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[T-N-T] Toivia Players 4,019 posts 23,935 battles Report post #13963 Posted March 1, 2019 I'm curious what the citadel changes bring. It would already be a good change to make an idiot Conq player pay for constantly setting you on fire while just sitting broadside in his spawn. The RN BB HE is technically a problem as well (and might still need an adjustment after RN BBs get actual citadels), but first things first. Generally it is not so much as the RN BBs being necessarily OP in a given game, but being extremely hard to outplay even if you do everything right (same as against an Asashio if you just happen to be in a BB). Right now the Conqueror in front of you can be a potato and he might still wreck you before you overcome his heal. If he gets a hittable citadel, that should no longer really happen (unless you are really unlucky, but that applies to every ship). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spunyarn Players 533 posts Report post #13964 Posted March 1, 2019 I did say "one of the attractions of Vanguard" was the difference in the AP fuses, and the possibility of the guns feeling as reliable when firing AP as other ships do was something that tempted me. So I was not disputing that Vanguard has other advantages, just commenting that changing the AP fuses on other ships would remove one of the differences. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[POPPY] Chaos_Umbra [POPPY] Players 1,662 posts 20,300 battles Report post #13965 Posted March 1, 2019 6 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said: Making Conq into another AP BB will only remove one of the gameplays I enjoy from the game and Conq will become more a mediocre bland and boring white sheep. The superheal is ok, it makes Conq be able to tanka lot of HE spam which can really help the team, if played correctly. I would actually enjoy the brit BBs less if it were to be turned into another BB AP line. You can play literally all other BB lines in the way that you like. Fine if you feel that Spamming HE from max range against targets that can't counter it, as you can't angle against HE, is fun that is your opinion but in terms of game balance and more specifically Class balance it messes everything up, sure you can happily farm 200k damage on unfortunate BBs that happen to be within your 26km range but it doesn't really help you win the game like supporting your DDs and Cruisers... Battleships are meant to counter mistakes by cruisers or battleships by devastating their broadsides thus assisting he DDs allowing your team to gain control of the caps. So as you can see the Conqueror is not OP it is just incredibly frustrating to play against and for someone who actually wants to support the caps any other BB is much less frustrating to use for the job and will perform better, the RN BB line is for potatoes that don't want to worry about angling, ammo selection and target selection and only want to pad their damage stats with ineffective 100% heal-able fire damage (Guess that's why you like facing an enemy Conqueror in your one his supper heal means you can farm the damage on the same ship all over again). Basically in conclusion the RN BB line is a cancer to the game more so than RTS style CV's ever were! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DK-CP] NothingButTheRain Players 6,338 posts 14,259 battles Report post #13966 Posted March 2, 2019 8 hours ago, Chaos_Umbra said: Fine if you feel that Spamming HE from max range Basically stopped reading here, you're obviously not taking it seriously. It is frustrating to play against FOR YOU. Not for me, no matter what ship I play in. Not everybody enjoys your play style, but that doesn't mean you should start your reaction by ridiculing someone who likes to play a ship that you don't like. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[POPPY] Chaos_Umbra [POPPY] Players 1,662 posts 20,300 battles Report post #13967 Posted March 3, 2019 On 3/2/2019 at 12:12 AM, NothingButTheRain said: Basically stopped reading here, you're obviously not taking it seriously. It is frustrating to play against FOR YOU. Not for me, no matter what ship I play in. Not everybody enjoys your play style, but that doesn't mean you should start your reaction by ridiculing someone who likes to play a ship that you don't like. Well if you stopped there because I hit the nail on the head then it's your loss, cause I was actually making a rather valid point, but oh well. For one example I experienced was in the GK, I was spotted by one of the ships on the team with 2 Conquerors and I was sailing with my fleet to support then those 2 open up from 26km with HE and in the time it took to disengage I had already lost 3/4 of my HP not from the fires but the raw HE Alpha which no ship in that situation can do anything about apart from disengage, I couldn't even fire back as even using a spotter plane they were out of range, note they didn't sink me they just ruined my match in particular and I think they still lost. You tell me how you are meant to counter that? And if you noticed I didn't say the ship is OP I said that it just farms irrelevant BB damage rather than supporting ships to take the caps, sure there are some good Conquer players that will use the stealth and the AP to good effect against cruisers supporting the DDs but for most and it is generally more rewarding to just farm fires and HE damage on BBs. There is making a line feel different and making it something that the class isn't, you wouldn't say that the US, IJN, German & French BBs all play the same, that is stupid. The all use AP in the majority of situations while switching to HE when required, the RN BBs it is you spam HE cause it is the most effective thing to use outside of 8km while the AP is very situational... Sounds more like a cruiser to me... Also should have guessed over 50% of your games are in BBs who would have thought... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #13968 Posted March 3, 2019 If you lose 3/4 of your HP from two ships at 26km, you are doing wrong. 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[POPPY] Chaos_Umbra [POPPY] Players 1,662 posts 20,300 battles Report post #13969 Posted March 3, 2019 2 hours ago, ColonelPete said: If you lose 3/4 of your HP from two ships at 26km, you are doing wrong. It does take quite a while to turn a GK around while being cautious of being torpedo'd... and when every HE salvo does like 15k, so 2 concs means 30k every 30 secs plus fires, GK had about 100k HP so that is only 3 salvos... so one and a half minutes... with Zero counter play... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #13970 Posted March 3, 2019 be in a different position in the first place turn sooner use cover a ship getting hit that hard that consistent at that distance sails in a straight line 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[POPPY] Chaos_Umbra [POPPY] Players 1,662 posts 20,300 battles Report post #13971 Posted March 3, 2019 1 hour ago, ColonelPete said: be in a different position in the first place turn sooner use cover a ship getting hit that hard that consistent at that distance sails in a straight line Spawned at A on north, was actually going to support the DDs unlike most BB idiots spamming from the map border in there German BBs... Hard to do when you don't know what was spotting you turning too early is just asking to be torped... I did when I eventually reached it not much cover on high tier maps... not really with the shot gun dispersion you gonna be hit regardless of any change in speed and direction... The only true counter for a Conqueror is a Shima getting close and devstikeing him negating the heal... that is if said Shima manages to get past all the radar ships... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #13972 Posted March 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chaos_Umbra said: Spawned at A on north, was actually going to support the DDs unlike most BB idiots spamming from the map border in there German BBs... Hard to do when you don't know what was spotting you turning too early is just asking to be torped... I did when I eventually reached it not much cover on high tier maps... not really with the shot gun dispersion you gonna be hit regardless of any change in speed and direction... The only true counter for a Conqueror is a Shima getting close and devstikeing him negating the heal... that is if said Shima manages to get past all the radar ships... Then use the island at A Torps need a time to load and if your DD is at the cap, torps cannot surprise you Except the island at A.... 15k salvos mean 50% hitrating, .... at that distance.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CR33D] fumtu [CR33D] Players 3,842 posts 38,979 battles Report post #13973 Posted March 8, 2019 Georgia stats, 3D model and armour model USS Georgia Seems like her secondary have better dispersion formula then Massa but RoF and range (6sec & 6km) are the same as Iowa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BRITS] fallenkezef [BRITS] Players 1,788 posts 1,954 battles Report post #13974 Posted March 8, 2019 So Conq has 4 2x457 turrets nobody uses. WG creates a BB with only 3 of them and expects people to go for it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CR33D] fumtu [CR33D] Players 3,842 posts 38,979 battles Report post #13975 Posted March 8, 2019 47 minutes ago, fallenkezef said: So Conq has 4 2x457 turrets nobody uses. WG creates a BB with only 3 of them and expects people to go for it? Why not if they make it work. Let's first see how Georgia will look in the end before judge her. Sure now she doesn't look particularly attractive but I guess there would be a lot of changes before release. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
