Discussion thread for "some interesting info around the world"

[HaachamaShipping]

3 minutes ago, Verdius said:

Don't forget that Georgia has superheavy shells so it will likely get the improved pen angles.

Anything of NC and up has SHS and gets normal pen angles, so, likely no.

[Toivia]

1 hour ago, BruceRKF said:

Never seen this thread that far back (it was on page four!)

 

So, new t9 US BB Iowa-like thing with 3x2 457 mm guns. Not a fan right now, mainly because she looks distinctly strange.

 

And actual citadels for Monarch (which gets an improved heal to compensate) and Conqueror. That is a good thing, I guess.

I'm not that versed in USN ships, but doesn't Georgia look more like an NC than an Iowa (bow and superstructure wise)?

Looks to me like another Richelieu -> Jean bart situation. This time not because of AA (and probably without reload booster) but because of almost Musashi guns. But it looks very meh so far. 6 guns is usually just not enough to get consistent(ly good) results. Hell even 8 guns with large spacing tend to behave weirdly (République etc.).

 

Also of interest, Monarch citadel still appears to be just below the waterine. But it doesn't get the actual British heal, just the middle of the road improved heal (Vanguard might be the most similar given the shorter reload).

[BruceRKF]

3 minutes ago, Toivia said:

I'm not that versed in USN ships, but doesn't Georgia look more like an NC than an Iowa (bow and superstructure wise)?

Looks to me like another Richelieu -> Jean bart situation. This time not because of AA (and probably without reload booster) but because of almost Musashi guns. But it looks very meh so far. 6 guns is usually just not enough to get consistent(ly good) results. Hell even 8 guns with large spacing tend to behave weirdly (République etc.).

 

Also of interest, Monarch citadel still appears to be just below the waterine. But it doesn't get the actual British heal, just the middle of the road improved heal (Vanguard might be the most similar given the shorter reload).

Yeah, could be NC-ish hull as well, didn't look at it that closely because those turrets are too hideous for a longer look ;)

[Toivia]

Yep, it is not a looker. At all.

[fumtu]

16 minutes ago, Toivia said:

I'm not that versed in USN ships, but doesn't Georgia look more like an NC than an Iowa (bow and superstructure wise)?

 

It is very similar to Iowa class with her original (wartime) bridge. It is quite different from NC class.

 

 

 

 

 

Only bow is different but still not the same as NC class.

[Toivia]

In the devblog thread, people call it the SoDak hull. Could be that. Either way it is not an Iowa hull which begs the question how it can possibly reach 33 knots.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, Toivia said:

In the devblog thread, people call it the SoDak hull. Could be that. Either way it is not an Iowa hull which begs the question how it can possibly reach 33 knots.

Frankly, I'm more interested in whether it'll be 38 mm centre deck like NC, Iowa and Montana or 32 mm like SC-class. Because even with 38 mm, this ship has 5 advantages over a Musashi:

• Better speed (likely the most consistent advantage there is)
• Better AA (matters in CV matches, but ok. Also, that explosion damage is quiestionable)
• Less citadel (but still is USN, so overmatchable cit deck is to be expected)
• Better accuracy (2.0 sigma and APR2)
• Better turret traverse (nice, but can be mitigated)

Meanwhile Musashi has:

• Better HP pool
• Better HE protection (by far with 57 mm center deck that ignores German HE, almost no superstructure and 50 mm section over much of the bow where USN has 32 mm)
• Better torp protection
• 32 mm overpen
• Much better dpm (50% more guns and MBM3. Combined with base IJN dispersion, I don't give a hoot about Georgia accuracy, 50% more guns is just much better)

If this ship gets SC 32 mm deck, it's just more insulting.

[ColonelPete]

Georgia looks a bit boring.

Following features could make Georgia interesting:

• high accuracy (maybe more than 2.0 Sigma)
• improved richochet angles like US CA
• secondaries like Massa or even better

Otherwise I fear her offensive power is too limited with just 6 guns.

[fumtu]

35 minutes ago, Toivia said:

In the devblog thread, people call it the SoDak hull. Could be that. Either way it is not an Iowa hull which begs the question how it can possibly reach 33 knots.

 

It is not. SoDak hull has only one stack, Georgia has two, just like Iowa class. Position of the secondary guns also match Iowa class not SoDak class. Georgia is more related to Iowa class then any other class.

[El2aZeR]

While I am happy that BBs finally get a reliably punishable citadel again, why Monarch? That ship is already sub-par to say the least.

I don't see any reason to nerf the Monarch specifically unless ofc this will apply to all RN BBs in the future.

[Toivia]

36 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

While I am happy that BBs finally get a reliably punishable citadel again, why Monarch? That ship is already sub-par to say the least.

I don't see any reason to nerf the Monarch specifically unless ofc this will apply to all RN BBs in the future.

 

As I said before, Monarch citadel still seems submerged, might not even make a difference. And it gets a better, faster heal. I guess giving it the full british heal is also an option.

 

2 hours ago, fumtu said:

 

It is not. SoDak hull has only one stack, Georgia has two, just like Iowa class. Position of the secondary guns also match Iowa class not SoDak class. Georgia is more related to Iowa class then any other class.

 

Secondaries seem to fit exactly Massachussets, same as the shape of the superstructure and the hull itself. As you point out, it however gets an extra funnel. So apparently an elongated SoDak. Thus I see where they're coming from with the 33 knots, though that still feels too much.

[fumtu]

1 hour ago, Toivia said:

Secondaries seem to fit exactly Massachussets, same as the shape of the superstructure and the hull itself.

 

All three USN classes, know as fast battleships, had same secondaries, 5x2 5inch on each side and all of them are in the same disposition, two in first row and three in the second. But there are some differences.

 

First NC. If you look her secondaries, two of them are on the main deck level while three in the second row are elevated. They are also spaced with almost equal distance between them.

 

 

South Dakota has all five turrets elevated from the deck, and they were quite cramped as ship and its superstructure is shorter. Also notice that first two turrets are elevated from the main deck.

 

 

Now look as Missouri. You can see that first two turret are elevated on their platforms which were positioned on the main deck, not on the same deck. Also there is noticeable distance between thee turrets on the right and two turrets on the left. Also one more detail worth noticing is that boat on the deck between two turrets in the first row

 

 

Now compare all these three ships with Georgia

 

 

Sorry image is not the best but you can see that two turrets in first row are positioned on the platforms on main deck and that there is a distance between three front turrets and two back turrets. And there is a boat between two turrets on platforms. This is clearly showing that Georgia secondaries match those on Iowa class. Also Georgia superstructure looks like that of SoDok because Iowa class originally had almost same superstructure which you can see in the images I posted in earlier post.

 

So Georgia is relative to Iowa class and that is where Georgia speed of 33kn came from. It is the same as Missouri and Iowa.

 

[Affeks]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

While I am happy that BBs finally get a reliably punishable citadel again, why Monarch? That ship is already sub-par to say the least.

I don't see any reason to nerf the Monarch specifically unless ofc this will apply to all RN BBs in the future.

Holy jesus why does everyone see this as a nerf?!

 

Read the notes man. 20% better heal and even more healable damage from pens to midship? Thats a buff 9/10 times. Especially for the playstyle RN BBs promote. 

 

I played Vanguard lately, and I can confirm that the .6 heal is more important than having an unhittable citadel. At least for players like us.

[DFens_666]

3 minutes ago, Affeks said:

Holy jesus why does everyone see this as a nerf?!

 

Read the notes man. 20% better heal and even more healable damage from pens to midship? Thats a buff 9/10 times. Especially for the playstyle RN BBs promote. 

 

I played Vanguard lately, and I can confirm that the .6 heal is more important than having an unhittable citadel. At least for players like us.

 

Yes i agree with the change not being a nerf. Yeah, potatoes probably die faster because they will sail broadside and get citadelled. But for people who can protect their citadel? How will you kill a conqueror if he literally will heal >75% of the damage he receives? (assuming he will receive fire damage aswell). I mean, how many Cruisers could a conqueror tank? Hard to say at this point...

Horrible move imo... Id rather giving conqueror 10k more HP in return then to buff its heal to even crazier levels.

[rnat]

8 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

I mean, how many Cruisers could a conqueror tank? Hard to say at this point...

I'd say no more than 1 high dpm one or 2 low dpm ones, assuming they hit relatively consistently.

Just did a bit of a test and a Hinden  can spam down a full health Bot-Conq in under 2 minutes without AP.

(opening fire-> death: 1:30-1:55, conditions: no AP, no dmg-con, fire reduction, range 12-15km, always aiming midships -> saturation)

(there's better data to be had if someone literally wants to sit there and be shot at for half an hour (or tape down LMB) for further testing. SCIENCE! )

which means if the BB under Fire can't disengage in that time it is as dead as it would be without the change.

 

I'd say it'd be a strong survivability buff against other BBs if it's well played or during unexpected dmg-spikes.

[Toivia]

2 hours ago, fumtu said:

 

All three USN classes, know as fast battleships, had same secondaries, 5x2 5inch on each side and all of them are in the same disposition, two in first row and three in the second. But there are some differences.

 

First NC. If you look her secondaries, two of them are on the main deck level while three in the second row are elevated. They are also spaced with almost equal distance between them.

 

 

South Dakota has all five turrets elevated from the deck, and they were quite cramped as ship and its superstructure is shorter. Also notice that first two turrets are elevated from the main deck.

 

 

Now look as Missouri. You can see that first two turret are elevated on their platforms which were positioned on the main deck, not on the same deck. Also there is noticeable distance between thee turrets on the right and two turrets on the left. Also one more detail worth noticing is that boat on the deck between two turrets in the first row

 

 

Now compare all these three ships with Georgia

 

 

Sorry image is not the best but you can see that two turrets in first row are positioned on the platforms on main deck and that there is a distance between three front turrets and two back turrets. And there is a boat between two turrets on platforms. This is clearly showing that Georgia secondaries match those on Iowa class. Also Georgia superstructure looks like that of SoDok because Iowa class originally had almost same superstructure which you can see in the images I posted in earlier post.

 

So Georgia is relative to Iowa class and that is where Georgia speed of 33kn came from. It is the same as Missouri and Iowa.

 

Okay okay, the secondaries are even closer to the Iowa, doesn't change the fact that the hull is clearly that of the SoDak, only lenghtened in the middle.

Definitely coes from SoDak and gets some supersctructure modifications (those secondaries of yours) based o the newer Iowa.

 

2 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Yes i agree with the change not being a nerf. Yeah, potatoes probably die faster because they will sail broadside and get citadelled. But for people who can protect their citadel? How will you kill a conqueror if he literally will heal >75% of the damage he receives? (assuming he will receive fire damage aswell). I mean, how many Cruisers could a conqueror tank? Hard to say at this point...

Horrible move imo... Id rather giving conqueror 10k more HP in return then to buff its heal to even crazier levels.

Wait what? Did I miss something? Conqueror is not getting any heal buffs, is it? It's just the Monarch that gets a nice healing buff while it's citadel is slightly higher.

Conqueror only gets a noticeably heightened citadel. No buffs.

[DFens_666]

15 minutes ago, Toivia said:

Wait what? Did I miss something? Conqueror is not getting any heal buffs, is it? It's just the Monarch that gets a nice healing buff while it's citadel is slightly higher.

Conqueror only gets a noticeably heightened citadel. No buffs.

 

Unless i missjudged what ive read, they stated Overpen/Penetration damage will be repairable to 75% rather than to current 60% - and that goes for Conq aswell.

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/113950-st-cvs-georgia-monarch-conqueror/

 

Quote

Both ships have very low citadel and this results in huge difficulty hitting it. Test ships will have their citadels placed higher. But the restoration of the casemate (non-citadel) damage increased from 60% to 75%. Also parameters of "Repair Party" were changed:

 

Nope, i read correctly: Both ships.

[LastButterfly]

7 hours ago, fumtu said:

Georgia is more related to Iowa class then any other class

 

4 hours ago, Toivia said:

So apparently an elongated SoDak

 

If I may, you should be able to find more infos on this question in Friedman's US Battleships, around pages 300~310.
If I recall correctly, it's where it details amongst else the US 1938+ battleship design projects centered around new artillery. At thi time, the US was studying 406mm and 457mm guns ; the design serie split in 2 series, a battleship-centered one with vessels capable of 27 to 29kn and carrying usually 12 406mm guns or 9 457mm ones, and a battlecruiser-centered one with ships capable of 33kn with some designs carrying 6 457mm in three turrets - most likely the inspiration for the Georgia, as I don't know any other US design with 457mm in double turrets (excepted some weird Tillmann's variants best forgotten and obviously not related to georgia).

The "battlecruiser" design serie would be further refined and serve as one of the inspiration for the Iowa class, while the "battleship" serie would be used to devellop, later on, the Montana class plans.

 

If I'm not wrong, this technically puts Georgia closer to Iowa than Sodak design-wise, as she's more or less of a predecessor/inspirational basis of Iowa and is linked to Sodak only by their common inspirational basis, North Cal ; but all of them stem from North Carolina in one way or another anyway, Iowa included, so telling which is closer to which is really nitpicking ^^".

 

I wish I could give sources, but I'm quoting all this from memories as I don't own Friedman's US Battleship ; as such, I apologize for not being able to give more details on the matter.

[Toivia]

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Unless i missjudged what ive read, they stated Overpen/Penetration damage will be repairable to 75% rather than to current 60% - and that goes for Conq aswell.

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/113950-st-cvs-georgia-monarch-conqueror/

 

 

Nope, i read correctly: Both ships.

But then they talk about Monarch's better heal...

So wait, does Monarch even get the faster heal or is that Conqueror only? Dammit, now I am completely confused as to what they bloody meant.

 

It should have been nerf+buff for Monarch while nerf only for Conqueror, this is madness.

 

@LastButterfly, Is it so difficult to see that 1) the bow is identical to SoDaks; 2) the broadside armor indentation is identical to SoDak; 3) the curvature of the hull is identical to SoDak?

Iowa has a completely different hull.

[DFens_666]

8 minutes ago, Toivia said:

But then they talk about Monarch's better heal...

So wait, does Monarch even get the faster heal or is that Conqueror only? Dammit, now I am completely confused as to what they bloody meant.

 

Conqueror has already 2,0% heal per second, unlike Monarch which currently has 0,5% standard reapair party.

Monarch will get 0,6% and 120 second cooldown on repair party as an additional buff.

[LastButterfly]

3 minutes ago, Toivia said:

Is it so difficult to see that 1) the bow is identical to SoDaks; 2) the broadside armor indentation is identical to SoDak; 3) the curvature of the hull is identical to SoDak?

Iowa has a completely different hull.

 

Look, I'm sorry for trying to bring actual sources regarding what design Georgia was based on and where it originates from.
The thing is - yes, it's difficult to see all the thing you mentionned, because Wargaming might aswell have combined elements from various designs and/or ships. I don't know, and in all honesty, I don't really care what kind of mashup Georgia actually is. I just thought some people might find it interesting to know that the root papership that served as an initial basis for the ship was amongst the post-NC studies that would further serve at defining the Iowa class.

[Toivia]

2 hours ago, LastButterfly said:

 

Look, I'm sorry for trying to bring actual sources regarding what design Georgia was based on and where it originates from.
The thing is - yes, it's difficult to see all the thing you mentionned, because Wargaming might aswell have combined elements from various designs and/or ships. I don't know, and in all honesty, I don't really care what kind of mashup Georgia actually is. I just thought some people might find it interesting to know that the root papership that served as an initial basis for the ship was amongst the post-NC studies that would further serve at defining the Iowa class.

Ah, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I'm only talking about the picture of the ship ingame, I know (nearly) nothing of real USN ships (and honestly don't care much, 95% of them are ugly as hell). So I am only interested about ingame qualities of USN ships as opposed to their actual designs.

2 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Conqueror has already 2,0% heal per second, unlike Monarch which currently has 0,5% standard reapair party.

Monarch will get 0,6% and 120 second cooldown on repair party as an additional buff.

I'm now not sure which ship is affected by the CD change. If the Monarch then great, if the Conqueror . And thing is, Monarch already has 120s (80s on premium) reload on the heal. It's the Conqueror that has 180s (120s on premium) on its superheal.

[fumtu]

11 hours ago, LastButterfly said:

 

 

If I may, you should be able to find more infos on this question in Friedman's US Battleships, around pages 300~310.
If I recall correctly, it's where it details amongst else the US 1938+ battleship design projects centered around new artillery. At thi time, the US was studying 406mm and 457mm guns ; the design serie split in 2 series, a battleship-centered one with vessels capable of 27 to 29kn and carrying usually 12 406mm guns or 9 457mm ones, and a battlecruiser-centered one with ships capable of 33kn with some designs carrying 6 457mm in three turrets - most likely the inspiration for the Georgia, as I don't know any other US design with 457mm in double turrets (excepted some weird Tillmann's variants best forgotten and obviously not related to georgia).

The "battlecruiser" design serie would be further refined and serve as one of the inspiration for the Iowa class, while the "battleship" serie would be used to devellop, later on, the Montana class plans.

 

If I'm not wrong, this technically puts Georgia closer to Iowa than Sodak design-wise, as she's more or less of a predecessor/inspirational basis of Iowa and is linked to Sodak only by their common inspirational basis, North Cal ; but all of them stem from North Carolina in one way or another anyway, Iowa included, so telling which is closer to which is really nitpicking ^^".

 

I wish I could give sources, but I'm quoting all this from memories as I don't own Friedman's US Battleship ; as such, I apologize for not being able to give more details on the matter.

 

11 hours ago, Toivia said:

But then they talk about Monarch's better heal...

So wait, does Monarch even get the faster heal or is that Conqueror only? Dammit, now I am completely confused as to what they bloody meant.

 

It should have been nerf+buff for Monarch while nerf only for Conqueror, this is madness.

 

@LastButterfly, Is it so difficult to see that 1) the bow is identical to SoDaks; 2) the broadside armor indentation is identical to SoDak; 3) the curvature of the hull is identical to SoDak?

Iowa has a completely different hull.

 

Iowa predecessor had very similar hull as South Dakota class but this was later changes in the final product.

 

 

What I want to say is that Georgia was mostly based on Iowa studies and that is were majority of her stats come, her relation to Iowa class. That's way is her speed 33kn, same as Iowa.

[BruceRKF]

Does anyone now any source that has plans/drawings of this North Carolina/South Dakota/Iowa hull and/or these planned 457 mm (Georgia). I would be really interested in looking up the history on those. Normally, I find something after looking through the internet for a bit, but I couldn't for this. Would appreciate it.

 

Edit: Or is the hull made up by WG?

[JaiFoh]

i found her