Discussion thread for "some interesting info around the world"

[Hades_warrior]

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ST. Black Friday.

New containers dedicated to Black Friday have been added to the game.

4 new ships are available: Tirpitz B, Atago B, Black Asashio B, Massachusetts B

So its been announced this new Collection which will start I assume from next month(?) where we will have to collect these new containers.

 

What are the rewards from this new Collection and are Black Friday containers part of that Collection? I must be missing something.

Those ''new'' B Premiums T8 are only available in Premium shop?

 

This black camo for free EXP grind would be very nice to have on Yamato. IF it's not to greedy to get her im up for it.

[Azakeit]

Will the french cruiser "spaced armor" be affected by these changes ? (not that it was very useful before you could say...)

[Darth_Glorious]

7 minutes ago, Azakeit said:

Will the french cruiser "spaced armor" be affected by these changes ? (not that it was very useful before you could say...)

no, only torpedo bulge

[Exocet6951]

42 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

...

 

And I havent said ONE word about torpedo-bulges.

 

 

And we throw Graf Spee under the bus? This is supposed to be 285 mm @MrConway @Crysantos

 

 

 

Probably because of Nassau's 283mm guns.
They don't want to have one BB (especially the starting BB of hte most played BB branches) being able to regular pen DDs. It sets false precedents.

 

 

1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

170 damage per hit though, if the bulge previously ate them. You aren't going to kill anything anytime soon.

 

That's still 170 quite a lot.
Imagine the Minotaur...

As I said, I have no way of seeing the ramifications and consequences as of yet so it might be limited, but the potential of spamming someone's main belt to death with some of the small AP rounds in the game just because it has a torpedo bulge is something I don't particularly welcome.
If nothing comes of it, alright why not.
If it turns out that it's a game changer, then it's another move into the "who has the most DPM wins" race we seem to be in currently, which I'm not a big fan of.

[Gvozdika]

46 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Well, the Graf is already horrible against DDs, let's nerf it more so that it becomes a cr@p premium.

To be honest - if you are spending any significant amount of time trying to blap away at a DD-sized target in the Graf Spee (at anything other than point-blank) you're unlikely to hit the thing anyway. BB dispersion with only six guns doesn't lend itself to DD hunting at the best of times.

[HaachamaShipping]

Graf Spee gets shafted a bit. But let's be real. The ship was never good vs DDs and continues not being too good against DDs. AP full pens typically were either a lucky shot or taking out a DD trying to rush you, in which case, I guess now you have to be more careful and have to work them over with crappy HE. Despite liking the Graf Spee a lot, I take it in return for never again having to listen to people claiming Kronshtadt is a good anti-DD ship.

10 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

That's still 170 quite a lot.
Imagine the Minotaur...

I don't know many ships that have large above water torp bulges without already having crappy plating all over the ship. Like, Amagi might have an insane torp bulge, but getting penned in the bulge still hurts less than getting penned next to the bulge where it's 32 mm.

[El2aZeR]

19 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

Probably because of Nassau's 283mm guns.

 

Also Scharnhorst.

[mariouus]

47 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Graf Spee gets shafted a bit. But let's be real. The ship was never good vs DDs and continues not being too good against DDs. AP full pens typically were either a lucky shot or taking out a DD trying to rush you, in which case, I guess now you have to be more careful and have to work them over with crappy HE. Despite liking the Graf Spee a lot, I take it in return for never again having to listen to people claiming Kronshtadt is a good anti-DD ship.

 I am hardly jumping in joy, because WG with that chance is making DD the most survivable class after BBs. Oh what joy cruiser players will have....

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, mariouus said:

 I am hardly jumping in joy, because WG with that chance is making DD the most survivable class after BBs. Oh what joy cruiser players will have....

No armour, no hp, mostly no repair party, mostly no meaningful AA. Certainly, the most survivable of all ship classes....

[piet11111]

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A new special Black Friday camouflage has been added:

-3% detectability range by sea
-4% dispersion of shells fired by the enemy attacking your ship
+75% XP per battle
+150% Free XP
+100% Commander XP

 

Not sure if this is the permanent camo that comes with the ships or a 1 use only camo you can get from the event.

If its a perma camo for the ships its a nice big middle finger to those who bought the original premium ships.

[WolfGewehr]

3 minutes ago, piet11111 said:

 

Not sure if this is the permanent camo that comes with the ships or a 1 use only camo you can get from the event.

If its a perma camo for the ships its a nice big middle finger to those who bought the original premium ships.

Quote

4 new ships are available: Tirpitz B, Atago B, Black Asashio B, Massachusetts B. Ships main differences are the color scheme permanent camouflage. They have identical characteristics to the existing Ships.

 

A new special Black Friday camouflage has been added:

 

 

As I read the statement, the only difference in permacamos on these Black versions of the premium ships is the color scheme. The stats you quoted are for the new expendable camo which can be used on any ship, like Ocean Soul etc.

[ForlornSailor]

1 hour ago, Exocet6951 said:

Probably because of Nassau's 283mm guns.

 

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Also Scharnhorst.

 

Yup, Scharn came to my mind aswell. But its not like WG would has no options to make an expemption for the Graf Spee.

 

1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

Graf Spee gets shafted a bit. But let's be real. The ship was never good vs DDs and continues not being too good against DDs.

 

Exactly. But beeing bad at something hardly justifies to nerf it even more, right? I mean it would be like "T10 IJN DDs torpedo damage reduced by 50% due to overperformance of Harugumo". Wait, we throw Shima under the bus? Ah well, shima suxx anyway

[DFens_666]

1 hour ago, Gvozdika said:

To be honest - if you are spending any significant amount of time trying to blap away at a DD-sized target in the Graf Spee (at anything other than point-blank) you're unlikely to hit the thing anyway. BB dispersion with only six guns doesn't lend itself to DD hunting at the best of times.

 

Killing a DD last second in his smoke because i got a pen on him won the game for us once.

Makes a huge difference sometimes

[mariouus]

5 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

No armour, no hp, mostly no repair party, mostly no meaningful AA. Certainly, the most survivable of all ship classes....

First off, where did I say most survivable ship class?I did say most survivable after BB. And it will. You can calculate it your self. But do not forget taking into account the superiour manouvrability, consilement and smaller size of the DDs when compared to CA/CLs.And do not forget the main thing that people tend do forget -HE does alot less damage than AP and DD can never be Fully damaged. Cruisers will get shafted by this change both directly and indirectly.

 

 

Not do mention that "fixing" any damage will take any sort of "idiot factor" out of the game. While it is against popular belief, large portion of DDs players who die of those penetrations, does not die because of some "mystical" bad RNG or because "BB Kevin got Lucky", but because they did bad decisions at the wrong time (or BB player they where facing was just good). Similar decisiouns would but CA/CL back do port real fast.

 

 

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, mariouus said:

First off, where did I say most survivable ship class?I did say most survivable after BB. And it will. You can calculate it your self. But do not forget taking into account the superiour manouvrability, consilement and smaller size of the DDs when compared to CA/CLs.And do not forget the main thing that people tend do forget -HE does alot less damage than AP and DD can never be Fully damaged. Cruisers will get shafted by this change both directly and indirectly.

 

 

Not do mention that "fixing" any damage will take any sort of "idiot factor" out of the game. While it is against popular belief, large portion of DDs players who die of those penetrations, does not die because of some "mystical" bad RNG or because "BB Kevin got Lucky", but because they did bad decisions at the wrong time (or BB player they where facing was just good). Similar decisiouns would but CA/CL back do port real fast.

 

 

First off, no, they still aren't going to be the second most survivable for all the reasons I listed. Especially at high tier, where cruisers get armour that bounces most BBs and repair party, the DD stays the most fragile of all classes. Short of Yamamoto and three special DDs, any damage to a DD sticks and a BB overpen still removes about as much hp percentage wise from DDs as full pens do from most cruisers. And that's just this one case. Get blapped by actual BB HE or by cruiser HE and the difference in survivability is enormous, when your cruiser can take like 10k damage from an HE salvo and yeah, ok, it's 20% of your hp gone, but you can repair most of it back, while a Dd loses 50% or more of its hp in this case and is just screwed. Also loses most of its modules. Or how about eating a torp. Potato in a cruiser and eat an IJN torp and it hurts, but you likely get away. Potato in a DD and you're dead.

 

And don't give me crap about the insane skill it takes to blap a DD, or the mistakes that need to be made. With BB dispersion, you basically just try to get the lead correct and that's basically it, because RNG does the rest. Similarly, it's just terrible design that when you run into something like a Cleveland or Chapayev that can (almost) stealth radar you, even if you do everything right to survive that cruiser, you might just die, because one of the BBs aimed into your general direction and hit you for full pens. But I guess that DD misplayed, because he wouldn't just sit broadside on to a friggin Chapayev and let itself get HE murdered in 20 seconds. A cruiser would have a completely different situation to start with.

[DFens_666]

5 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

because he wouldn't just sit broadside on to a friggin Chapayev and let itself get HE murdered in 20 seconds. A cruiser would have a completely different situation to start with.

 

Yes, the 26k maximum HE damage will certainly kill anything

That is with 3 salvos (which is not guaranteed) and a 100% hitrate.

 

Your analogy about potatoing cruisers who survive is laughable.

But i see, DD players want to

- remove CV which they will, since spotting wont be a thing

- Remove BB AP check also

- Radar rework already in progress

- Next step remove Cruisers -> only logical

 

Its like [edited]BBabies all over, but now everyone is on the DD side, because its not BBs.

With BB AP "gone", the Radar change needs to be stopped, whatever the plan.

 

10 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

And don't give me crap about the insane skill it takes to blap a DD, or the mistakes that need to be made.

 

Havent seen any DD today get blapped in 5 games... so yes, its a lie that this happens all the time. Meanwhile, how to blap Cruisers ->

Spoiler

Easy 37k damage.

[ForlornSailor]

13 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

And don't give me crap about the insane skill it takes to blap a DD, or the mistakes that need to be made. With BB dispersion, you basically just try to get the lead correct and that's basically it, because RNG does the rest. Similarly, it's just terrible design that when you run into something like a Cleveland or Chapayev that can (almost) stealth radar you

 

Dont give me that crap how easy it is to delete a DD with Radar. Only one hour ago I survived 90 sec radar with couple of BBs shooting me. I got what, 2,5k dmg? All those DDs crying "I always get deleted by simple push-a-button radar" need to l2p. simple as that. Enough with making this game so dumb that a donkey can play it. Its bad enough, that players with the skill of wet toiletpaper are able to achieve winrates around 45% and damage, that is 30% of that from decent players.

 

44 minutes ago, mariouus said:

large portion of DDs players who die of those penetrations, does not die because of some "mystical" bad RNG or because "BB Kevin got Lucky", but because they did bad decisions at the wrong time (or BB player they where facing was just good).

 

This. End of discussion.

[El2aZeR]

49 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Only one hour ago I survived 90 sec radar with couple of BBs shooting me. I got what, 2,5k dmg?

 

To be fair you're not playing any of the fat DDs that are prone to get full or even double pens from BB AP (at least not that I can see). Gearing is the shining example of one as she's the ultimate combination of slow, fat and sluggish thus presenting a fairly easy target for BBs even at mid range.

 

Is this worth dumbing down the game? Meh, debatable to say the least. I think it's a good change per se, but I'm worried about how it'll interact with other planned changes such as the radar and CV rework.

Then again the CV rework looks like it'll already murder the  out of DD play, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[mariouus]

18 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

And don't give me crap about the insane skill it takes to blap a DD, or the mistakes that need to be made. With BB dispersion, you basically just try to get the lead correct and that's basically it, because RNG does the rest.

Well, it does take skill, you also have do get "height" of the aim right. And DD stiil has do be where you aimed when shells arrive.

 

The thing is, reciving penetration in DD is not a bug, however WG serves it. It is game mechanics, that have always exsisted. And do be fair, against player who knows why it happenes, where he has to aim to make it happen and knows how to lead a target.And has co-operative DD in sights. Your hated RNG is only thing that stops some penetrations being a instant deletion.

 

Currently, there is no "Right" ammo against DDs. What is right ammo dependes on a DD player, how he plays and on a BB player, how he aims. Sometimes AP is better, sometimes HE is better.

 

18 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

First off, no, they still aren't going to be the second most survivable for all the reasons I listed. Especially at high tier, where cruisers get armour that bounces most BBs and repair party, the DD stays the most fragile of all classes. Short of Yamamoto and three special DDs, any damage to a DD sticks and a BB overpen still removes about as much hp percentage wise from DDs as full pens do from most cruisers. And that's just this one case. Get blapped by actual BB HE or by cruiser HE and the difference in survivability is enormous, when your cruiser can take like 10k damage from an HE salvo and yeah, ok, it's 20% of your hp gone, but you can repair most of it back, while a Dd loses 50% or more of its hp in this case and is just screwed. Also loses most of its modules. Or how about eating a torp. Potato in a cruiser and eat an IJN torp and it hurts, but you likely get away. Potato in a DD and you're dead.

I am not even going do comment how apparently at High tier cruisers can bounce most BB shots.

 

 

Secondly, how does Citadel hits on a cruiser fit into your calculation. I would say propotinally one Citadel hit on a cruiser, is roughtly equal to one penetration hit on a DD. Having it propotinally similar is intentional. In whose favor will it change, when BB starts to make less damage do DD? 

 

Who is more likely do get hit - cruiser or DD? 

 

What kind of meta do we have in Randoms currently? CA/CL heavy? Not really. Infact last couple of days when I played, there was rarely more than two cruisers per side.

 

 

In a long run, knowing WG, it will mean that DDs Will get nerfed. Is it worth it, I do not think so.

[ForlornSailor]

39 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

To be fair you're not playing any of the fat DDs that are prone to get full or even double pens from BB AP

 

I was in Benson, so yea, I´ll admit that I had an easier time. But still. It helps a lot actually looking at the BB, that is going to shoot you, and then change speed/course the moment he shoots. Then you are save for the next ~30sec. But ofc this requires knowledge of time, which we recently found out, is not a thing among wows-players.

 

39 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Is this worth dumbing down the game? Meh, debatable to say the least. I think it's a good change per se, but I'm worried about how it'll interact with other planned changes such as the radar and CV rework.

 

With WG it really feels like there are several teams/persons working simultanously on overlapping projects and never exchange a word with each other. Sort of a super chaotic business.

 

38 minutes ago, mariouus said:

Secondly, how does Citadel hits on a cruiser fit into your calculation. I would say propotinally one Citadel hit on a cruiser, is roughtly equal to one penetration hit on a DD. Having it propotinally similar is intentional. In whose favor will it change, when BB starts to make less damage do DD? 

 

Who is more likely do get hit - cruiser or DD? 

 

Ofc: If you make it less worthwhile for BBs to shoot at DDs, they will focus Cruisers even more.

 

 

 

[DFens_666]

25 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

To be fair you're not playing any of the fat DDs that are prone to get full or even double pens from BB AP (at least not that I can see). Gearing is the shining example of one as she's the ultimate combination of slow, fat and sluggish thus presenting a fairly easy target for BBs even at mid range.

 

Might be easier to look into those DDs then. Harugumo and Khaba are already being excempt from the change. For a good reason.

 

26 minutes ago, mariouus said:

In a long run, knowing WG, it will mean that DDs Will get nerfed. Is it worth it, I do not think so.

 

Good point Im wondering, how much will it affect DD survivability?

It will once again make Cruiser life harder imo. If BBs will deal less damage (the question is, will BB players ignore DDs more with the change?). So who has to pick up the slack? Cruisers... I already feel that in many games i have to do that all the time. Whether playing Cruiser or BB doesnt really matter. Just the matches today:

1st game Marblehead: killed both DDs with >50% damage on both

2nd game: Killed 2 out of 4, 3rd one >50% damage, one didnt die had full health (couldnt shoot him, since he was opposite side of the map, surprise?)

3rd game: GK... well shot one out of 3 DDs a bit, but our team DDs were morons who didnt spot and still die, enemy Gearings were stealth all the time after that.

4th and 5th game: Kutuzov, tried to shoot DDs all the time, didnt kill any even tho i managed some damage on most of them. But especially BBs in those teams were glue eaters so what to expect ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Seriously, i cant [edited]do more. And with the change, i feel i would need to do even more! HOW?!

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Might be easier to look into those DDs then.

 

Indeed actually. They could've e.g. put Gearing lower in the water like the YY to make her a smaller target. Or give her the experimental USS Timmerman upgrade which would put her at over 40kn to alleviate her speed problems. The latter would make Shima even more obsolete than she already is tho, but then again Shima needs a complete overhaul anyway so who cares.

[Exocet6951]

8 hours ago, mariouus said:

While it is against popular belief, large portion of DDs players who die of those penetrations, does not die because of some "mystical" bad RNG or because "BB Kevin got Lucky", but because they did bad decisions at the wrong time

 

I got blaped in a Z-52 because I had the audacity to be within 16km of a Yamato and 11.7km away from a Moskva hidden behind an island that had never been spotted.

What you just said was essentially the "Overconfident" meme with extra words.

[mariouus]

1 hour ago, Exocet6951 said:

I got blaped in a Z-52 because I had the audacity to be within 16km of a Yamato and 11.7km away from a Moskva hidden behind an island that had never been spotted.

What you just said was essentially the "Overconfident" meme with extra words.

Not really. Thinking that you should not get hit at all, is kind of hard do comment. And does not really change the fact that out of all your tier.X  DDs Z52 shares second/third place in survivability department and in Tier.9 top two ships are DDs. 

[Exocet6951]

2 hours ago, mariouus said:

Not really. Thinking that you should not get hit at all, is kind of hard do comment. And does not really change the fact that out of all your tier.X  DDs Z52 shares second/third place in survivability department and in Tier.9 top two ships are DDs. 

 

Thinking that I should not get hit? 

 

See this is why discussing things with the likes of you and other other die hard defending regular pens on DDs is impossible. 

 

You take the sentence "not receiving regular pens" and turn it into "SO YOU WANT TO BE INVULNERABLE?!" 

 

No. 

Stupid. 

Come back when you read other people's posts and stop trying to cram your own arguments into our mouths and effectively stop debating with yourself.