Discussion thread for "some interesting info around the world"

[Comodoro_Allande]

They are live at Twitch now: https://www.twitch.tv/worldofwarships

[ForlornSailor]

6 minutes ago, Verdius said:

You mean the type XVII, but that is only 1 type of sub.

 

There is

Type XXI

Type XVII

+ additional paper-designs based on the Walther-technique.

They show enough differences to populate T8(7) to T10 if you´d want to. Some of them were transfered after the war to russia, france, UK, so you already have all trees filled.

 

Also, the slow speed when submerged isnt a problem for low- to mid-tiers. So the submarines have to travel surfaced to move across the map. Exactly as it was in reality.

 

Not saying it should happen, but it can, if one wants to.

 

[Yedwy]

3 minutes ago, Verdius said:

 

Don't we already have enough T8 US BBs for now?

Maybee but it would make more sence in this particular case, no?

[EvilBob]

11 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

Let's be brutally honest, most of the people that want subs don't hugely care that they won't be historically accurate.

 

Enough stuff already isn't historically accurate - BB accuracy, DD reloading torps etc. Subs moving "too fast" fits with the arcade "It looks like the real thing but it behaves differently"

 

The real question is will the be fun (to play with/against), without being useless/OP, and without rendering another class worthless (looking at you IJN DD)

 

My concern is how much people struggle with x and y axis, don't' be throwing in the z!

 

Also i think wargaming have more important things to fix, not throwing in more balancing issues into the game. 

[Verdius]

2 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

There is

Type XXI

 

Still gets outrun heavily by anything and has worse torpedo power than a T6 German DD.
 

4 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Type XVII

 

2 533mm torpedo tubes

 

5 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

They show enough differences to populate T8(7) to T10 if you´d want to.

 

 

These ships are way too anemic for high tier

 

6 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Some of them were transfered after the war to russia, france, UK, so you already have all trees filled.

 

Type XVII was only transferred to the US and UK, not to the rest. And that would still be only 1 or 2 subs with some speed for the entire trees.

Also you left out Japan.
 

9 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Also, the slow speed when submerged isnt a problem for low- to mid-tiers. So the submarines have to travel surfaced to move across the map. Exactly as it was in reality.

Tell that to anyone who played US BBs, only instead of having long range guns they'd have short range torps. Countering them would be ridiculously easy with their limited number of tubes, slow speed, and non-existent self defense weapons.
In reality subs were meant for destroying convoys, not for pitched battles.

Also WG would need to redesign every map to make the underwater enviroment.

[ForlornSailor]

4 minutes ago, Verdius said:

 

Dude, why are you arguening with me? Everything you bring to the table, is strawman, you are assuming something or is simply subject to balance.

 

8 minutes ago, Verdius said:

2 533mm torpedo tubes

 

weird. Im pretty sure I did add Type XXIII and put a notice on XVII, since it was a coastal submarine. Forum effup? btw - and why dont you research yourself... every argument about the submarines fall with 2 ins wikipedia search, yet you bring up new.

 

And if you havent noticed, they just answered to the question if and when submarines come to the PvP, the answer was "its 99,9% sure that the CV rework comes first". That says: submarines infact come to PvP. There is even a tiny chance, it will come before CV rework.

[Verdius]

https://venturebeat.com/2018/09/18/why-wargaming-is-disrupting-world-of-warships-with-submarines-and-revamped-aircraft-carriers/

Quote

We’ve been discussing submarines since the beginning. The first conclusion was that we didn’t think that it was necessary. They didn’t fit the gameplay meta. But eventually we realized that we’d otherwise run out of content, run out of historical ships. At the moment, we already have all the major nations represented, with most of the iconic, legendary ships

Apparently Italy is not a major naval nation according to WG (USSR obviously is though, they already announced a BB line for next year)

[Verdius]

43 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

And if you havent noticed, they just answered to the question if and when submarines come to the PvP, the answer was "its 99,9% sure that the CV rework comes first". That says: submarines infact come to PvP. There is even a tiny chance, it will come before CV rework.

 

16 minutes ago, Sehales said:

To clarify the last part: Nothing is set in stone and it is not yet fully planned to have them in the main game. We will evaluate feedback from the halloween mode and if it was successful, we will consider adding them to the main game. TL;DR we will see

 

Also Type XXIII has the same issue as the Type XVII

 

[_DeathWing_]

 

 

[AkosJaccik]

...nothing? Nobody? Alright, I'll jump on it.

 

 

But joke aside, if something, this IS an indicator for just how much our game changed over the years. Arguably not necessarily always for the better, and maybe not while driven by a clear vision. ...but changed.

However, I'm still salty about the thought that I might be able to drive a fokken' sentoku-class submarine sooner than finally take out the Tone for a spin.

[Toivia]

Well SubOctavian kept saying "when and if" submarines actually come.

For now they are testing whether subs can be used in scenarios. If that works, then they can think about possibly adding them to PvP. But so far, SO mentioned they haven't even started thinking about how to counter subs (which is obviously needed in PvP) AND they'd have to remodel every map in the game.

 

In other words, I'd be far more worried with CV rework, UK DDs and the newly announced stealthy premiums.

[TheRonson]

some interesting info from WW1

Picture of German battleship SMS Bayern sinking at Scapa Flow ( there is a typo under pic should be 1919 ), also have a look at the thickness of steel on used on land-based gun barrels in the Picture above it.

I didn't think you could burn through that thickness of steel, seemingly Oxy-fuelled cutters can cut through 48" of steel.

 

See the link below

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6180253/Incredible-images-wave-hope-swept-Europe-World-War-One.html

[puxflacet]

8 hours ago, fumtu said:

 

WV is too slow for T8. Imagine her against T10 ships, with speed of 21kn she would be an easy prey for any ship. She has two less turrets than Mass and that would also mean lower sigma than Colorado so very RNG dependent. I don't see how WG could make her properly balanced compared to Colorado. Colorado is already not the most competitive BB at T7, if you try to balance WV to her she would end as mediocre premium (lot of uproar) but if you try to make VW good premium comparable to Nelson or Sharny you get a straight better ship than Colorado (much less uproar but still not the best way). I personally don't like either option. No doubt WV would be a nice T7 premium only problem is her balance compared with current Colorado.

I think you are right. The only version of West Virginia currently possible is the one WG announced. 1944 USS Tennessee would be probably better candidate for T7 premium.

[El2aZeR]

Quote

We think the balance should be in a form such that any ship should be universal. Any ship should be able to fight any other ship. The key to victory should be teamwork. As long as you know your weaknesses, and you know that there might be submarines going after you, you need to cooperate and play as a team with your teammates. They need to protect you from the classes that counter you.

 

We think that if this concept is implemented well, it should be fun for all players. They’ll find a way to work together and protect each other from submarines.

 

Wait, so any ship should be able to fight any other ship, but you're also gonna need teammates who protect you from classes that counter you.

Isn't that contradictory?

 

Also that last part. "They’ll find a way to work together and protect each other from submarines." Do they even play their own game? They can't even protect each other from CVs, the most telegraphed and obvious attack ever.

[Humorpalanta]

"We had to find a way to implement subs cos we are running out of content"

[orzel286]

Seriously wargaming? Submarines?  Outside of some special event?

 

I'm not a silent hunter guy, more like cold waters guy (~500 hours), so I think I'll do alright. :P

 

Oh, and since SOVIET NAVY BEST NAVY I fully expect at least november class in game. Or maybe alpha.

[Exocet6951]

6 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Wait, so any ship should be able to fight any other ship, but you're also gonna need teammates who protect you from classes that counter you.

Isn't that contradictory?

 

Also that last part. "They’ll find a way to work together and protect each other from submarines." Do they even play their own game? They can't even protect each other from CVs, the most telegraphed and obvious attack ever.

 

You read it wrong you silly cashcow valued player.

"Any (battle)ship should be a self-sufficient machine, but you just need a few sacrificial lambs to soak up hits and spot for you."

 

 

PS:
 

"We had to find a way to implement subs cos we are running out of content"

 

 

Called it back during the RN BB release.
WG would pull a panic move and try anything to keep more players pouring in after all the big ship names have been dropped.

After all, why try to fix the game to make it worthy on its own when you can use the good old "have more and more unbalanced content while extracting as much money from new players as fast as possible before they leave" method of F2P gaming?

[puxflacet]

nvm

[creamgravy]

56 minutes ago, TheRonson said:

I didn't think you could burn through that thickness of steel, seemingly Oxy-fuelled cutters can cut through 48" of steel.

 

[Sehales]

19 minutes ago, orzel286 said:

Seriously wargaming? Submarines?  Outside of some special event?

 

I'm not a silent hunter guy, more like cold waters guy (~500 hours), so I think I'll do alright. :P

 

Oh, and since SOVIET NAVY BEST NAVY I fully expect at least november class in game. Or maybe alpha.

No, as part of some special event. While we are open to consider adding subs to the main game, we will wait for the halloween mode and feedback regarding it and might consider adding them afterwards. It is not set in stone. In that case 2019 would be the earliest we can add them. Currently they are PvE only and they are not ready or made for PvP in their current form. Also remember, halloween events in World of Warships are usually a bit more crazy with high damage and lots of sunk ships ;) It's supposed to be a fun special mode after all.

[csatahajos]

7 hours ago, Verdius said:

 

Call me a cynic but I expect us to see a historically accurate camo in a few months after the ship is released for like 3-4k or whatever ridiculous price T8 prem camos cost in doubloons. Its not a missed opportunity when it comes to milking the playerbase.

Why make the player pay 'only' 40 euros when you can charge them another 10+ for a historical skin on top.

It is as historically accurate camo as your suggestion, was intended to be used but she was in the end painted in Ms 21 and Ms 22 by the time what the 3D model depicts (after her "big" refit). Ms 21 and 22 would be pretty dull (especially Ms 21), so I can see why they opted for this. The Ms 12 Mod camo that your google search brought up was replaced by late 1942 and would be equally incorrect for the model.

http://www.usndazzle.com/design.php?category=3&class=1&design_num=14D&designed_for_type=CA&designed_for_num=45

 

Please do your research properly and not just a "quick google search" before you start criticizing. 

[1MajorKoenig]

21 minutes ago, Sehales said:

No, as part of some special event. While we are open to consider adding subs to the main game, we will wait for the halloween mode and feedback regarding it and might consider adding them afterwards. It is not set in stone. In that case 2019 would be the earliest we can add them. Currently they are PvE only and they are not ready or made for PvP in their current form. Also remember, halloween events in World of Warships are usually a bit more crazy with high damage and lots of sunk ships ;) It's supposed to be a fun special mode after all.

 

And we will see whether subs could be a fun thing in WOWS later on. Let’s try it out :-) 

[orzel286]

Judging by the interview I'd say that the halloween event is just a test, but whether feedback is positive or negative it doesn't really matter - subs are coming in one form or another. Also - I think I can tell why, the soviet ww2 subs were way more (in)famous than the surface fleet.

[Xevious_Red]

Well looking at it the sub has 3 levels - surface, periscope and submerged.

 

Surface to refil oxygen. Freely shootable by anyone as long as it's detected. It's a squishy slow DD like this.

 

Submerged can't be shot, invisible (probably not against hydro). Can be hit by depth charges. Uses oxygen. Can't attack.

 

Periscope can attack. Low detection. Uses oxygen. Appears to be immune to HE (at least those big boulders in halloween) at this depth. Probably will eat torps. Maybe large calibre AP?

 

Oxygen appears to be about 80 secs judging by video. Surface detection look about 5km. Periscope looks like 2.5km Torp range looks about 6-8km judging by minimap (there are several different subs shown). Reload time seems to range from 50 seconds for the 8km ones down to 18 seconds for the 6km

[El2aZeR]

As a fun PvE gamemode, sure, why not.

 

Don't particularly see how subs can be implemented in randoms tho unless they plan to expand the match up to 15vs15+, especially since they also plan on releasing all MM limitations on CVs as well.