Discussion thread for "some interesting info around the world"

[Chaos_Umbra]

1 hour ago, ImperialAdmiral said:

 

In what way? You still struggle to deal any sort of damage. Guns are bad and even with IFHE they do laughable ammount of damage.

And heal only prolongs the struggle and frustration for you and the team. 

Plus always take into consideration who is playing. In most case majority of good players will get less damage than super unicums get.

Damage isn't everything, that is an issue with how people view the game as a whole, a DD that contests the caps and sinks the enemy DDs even if it only does 20k damage is much better to winning the match than a BB sniping from the back doing over 100k on enemy BBs. The issue with not just the Abruzzi but the D'Aosta as well is that the fast HE shells work great at taking out DDs at 10km and under but are anemic at HE spamming BBs, the same is with the AP it is great at close range against broadside cruisers at close range, both these characteristics along with their maneuverability make them good at fighting DDs and Cruisers around the caps, but with the proliferation of BBs in the current game they have a hard time same as any cruiser in that as soon as your spotted 5 BBs are aiming at you cause you are just seen as food. For example the SEA server has a higher cruiser population (from what I've heard) both the Italian cruisers would be perfectly viable, it is only due to WG's pandering to BB only players, and the damage focus in the game, that there is an issue in the class balance.

 

If these ships were in a game with 3 BBs, 3 DDs, 5 CA/CLs & 1 CV (a team) then they would perform perfectly fine , rather  than the normal 5 BBs, 5 DDs & 2 CA/CLs.

 

Also all I did was say it was better than it was, I wasn't saying it was competing with the Belfast or Myoko in terms of effectiveness.

[ImperialAdmiral]

11 minutes ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

Damage isn't everything, that is an issue with how people view the game as a whole, a DD that contests the caps and sinks the enemy DDs even if it only does 20k damage is much better to winning the match than a BB sniping from the back doing over 100k on enemy BBs. The issue with not just the Abruzzi but the D'Aosta as well is that the fast HE shells work great at taking out DDs at 10km and under but are anemic at HE spamming BBs, the same is with the AP it is great at close range against broadside cruisers at close range, both these characteristics along with their maneuverability make them good at fighting DDs and Cruisers around the caps, but with the proliferation of BBs in the current game they have a hard time same as any cruiser in that as soon as your spotted 5 BBs are aiming at you cause you are just seen as food. For example the SEA server has a higher cruiser population (from what I've heard) both the Italian cruisers would be perfectly viable, it is only due to WG's pandering to BB only players, and the damage focus in the game, that there is an issue in the class balance.

 

If these ships were in a game with 3 BBs, 3 DDs, 5 CA/CLs & 1 CV (a team) then they would perform perfectly fine , rather  than the normal 5 BBs, 5 DDs & 2 CA/CLs.

 

Also all I did was say it was better than it was, I wasn't saying it was competing with the Belfast or Myoko in terms of effectiveness.

 

That's the problem. D'aosta has its niche in being a DD hunter and cruiser killer but for that it has to get close and therfore it is a cruiser that depends on good teamplay and support. Without that (in current BB meta) you either stay behind or get BTFO by battleships. Sure you are nible and fast but also long and people learned how to hit fast moving targets. Abruzzi is the same just tier higher and minus the ability to fight with many cruisers now with Hipper buff even less. It just needs to deal that damage to be useful otherwise people will play sth else.

[Chaos_Umbra]

16 minutes ago, ImperialAdmiral said:

 

That's the problem. D'aosta has its niche in being a DD hunter and cruiser killer but for that it has to get close and therfore it is a cruiser that depends on good teamplay and support. Without that (in current BB meta) you either stay behind or get BTFO by battleships. Sure you are nible and fast but also long and people learned how to hit fast moving targets. Abruzzi is the same just tier higher and minus the ability to fight with many cruisers now with Hipper buff even less. It just needs to deal that damage to be useful otherwise people will play sth else.

Well if they want to play a long range HE spammer of course the RU cruisers would be a better pick, this is a premium ship not part of the main line (when it comes out), whats wrong with a premium that fills a different niche than the rest of the cruisers, the fact that WG's balance has reduced that niche isn't  the problem of the ships performance rather the point and click nature of BBs to just delete ships and get high damage numbers, remember the days when broadside BBs used to be punished or when IJN DDs were actually a threat with their torpedoes to them, if BBs were not so easy to play that you can have a cup of tea in one hand and still do well then maybe the number of matches with 5 BBs a team wouldn't be so high and cruisers wouldn't be as unpopular cause you get 1 shot by 5 BBs in the first 5 minutes.

[El2aZeR]

4 hours ago, NoirLotus said:

Midway TB are hard to dodge as there is a very small space between their torps, Hakuryu TB have more space. So, unless the CV player is soign a perfect torpedo drop with the ideal shift between the 3 TB squads, they are much esier to dodge.

 

The funny thing is that Midway gets about the same or less hits as Hakuryu on a capital ship due to the inherently flimsy nature of her TBs. I've rarely attacked something and lost less than 3 TBs.

It's probably just perceived as more due to the tight spread of her torps.

 

Against DDs, yeah, but does it really matter as you're [edited] anyway barring any major mistakes from the CV? If a Midway attacks you and you're out of position, you're dead. If a Hakuryu attacks you and you're out of position, you're also dead. The tighter spread of Midway TBs really doesn't make any difference here.

 

That said I would much prefer Midway have T10 strike aircraft but a 2-1-3 or even 2-1-4 setup instead.

[NoirLotus]

You lose TBs in Midway because they are T8 ... With T10 TB, Midway scores way more hits with torpedoes.

 

I repeat myself : 2x6 US TB is not balanced, that's even a statement from WG, so why do they insist on trying to make it work ??

 

 

[El2aZeR]

10 minutes ago, NoirLotus said:

You lose TBs in Midway because they are T8 ... With T10 TB, Midway scores way more hits with torpedoes.

 

Yes, but that is precisely why Midway gets T8 TBs in the first place. It's what allows her to field 2 TB squads.

Personally I don't see why it makes her overpowered. You get the same or less amount of hits than Haku in a strike against capital ships. She's still at a strike disadvantage as Haku services thrice as fast.

 

As for WG statements, they also said they're looking into BB overpopulation 2 years ago.

[lankylad11_lankylad]

The way to deal with BB overpopulation isn't to nerf tier 10 aircraft carriers. Conqueror is in much more need of a nerf than any aircraft carrier. I would suggest taking the 4 X 3 setup away

[Chaos_Umbra]

3 hours ago, lankylad11_lankylad said:

The way to deal with BB overpopulation isn't to nerf tier 10 aircraft carriers. Conqueror is in much more need of a nerf than any aircraft carrier. I would suggest taking the 4 X 3 setup away

I think giving them a citadel that can be hit and worse detection than cruisers will go much better for balancing BBs, though the RN ones need a complete rework so they are no longer HE spammers which are pure cancer to the game.

[lankylad11_lankylad]

Well I agree and I would say that all BBs should have raised citadels but they don't need to nerf any more tier 10 CVs

[Darth_Glorious]

Compared to T8 Cleveland, T9 Seattle citadel is much more bigger and longer, its belt armour is also weaker (102 mm vs 127 mm), The ship is super fragile like Mogami.

Seattle has 51 mm upper deck.

Worcester and Seattle have 89 mm citadel deck with makes it them very vulnerable to AP bombs

[Affeks]

18 hours ago, Darth_Glorious said:

Compared to T8 Cleveland, T9 Seattle citadel is much more bigger and longer, its belt armour is also weaker (102 mm vs 127 mm), The ship is super fragile like Mogami.

Seattle has 51 mm upper deck.

Worcester and Seattle have 89 mm citadel deck with makes it them very vulnerable to AP bombs

Good AA ships biggest weakness is AP bombs and plane spotting? Why am I not surprised...

[eliastion]

Laughed at the new collab. I mean, I'm ok with silly anime collabs, I like my ARP content and HSF would've been nice if not for the prices and stuff. But Azure Line? That game doesn't seem to have any ships, just the anthropomorphic (plus minus animal ears and tails) personifications of ships. So, what's there to put into WoWs from that game? A bunch of special-looking captains? Sounds a bit barren...

[IsamuKondera]

42 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Laughed at the new collab. I mean, I'm ok with silly anime collabs, I like my ARP content and HSF would've been nice if not for the prices and stuff. But Azure Line? That game doesn't seem to have any ships, just the anthropomorphic (plus minus animal ears and tails) personifications of ships. So, what's there to put into WoWs from that game? A bunch of special-looking captains? Sounds a bit barren...

 

Captains like Mutsuki and co

[Affeks]

57 minutes ago, IsamuKondera said:

 

Captains like Mutsuki and co

no comment

[Humorpalanta]

Jeeeez. Some people

[Aragathor]

Looked at the Notser Abruzzi heal video. The ship looks like a horribly underpowered PoS. Low impact, low performance, and the heal does nothing.

I really want to buy it, but won't, because paying money for it would be a crime.

[Humorpalanta]

1 hour ago, Aragathor said:

Looked at the Notser Abruzzi heal video. The ship looks like a horribly underpowered PoS. Low impact, low performance, and the heal does nothing.

I really want to buy it, but won't, because paying money for it would be a crime.

I know the feeling. Spaghetti ships look so fancy i want them all. I love them. Silver ships when? :(

 

Also: Spaghetti HE is basiclly the crappiest ever but sovietski cruisers (that are basically spaghetti ships) are über-brutal HE-spammers. Logic and Vodka isn't a smart decision boys.

[Zemeritt]

46 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

Also: Spaghetti HE is basiclly the crappiest ever but sovietski cruisers (that are basically spaghetti ships) are über-brutal HE-spammers. Logic and Vodka isn't a smart decision boys.

 

Not like the russians continued to buy italian shells after purchasing the ships.

 

Just think before you type something "realism"

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Zemeritt said:

Not like the russians continued to buy italian shells after purchasing the ships.

 

YOU DARE SPEAK OF STATE SECRET IN OPEN COMRADE? ARE YOU OF MAD MIND?! HIDE BEFORE THEY SEND YOU TO GULAG!

[Humorpalanta]

18 hours ago, Zemeritt said:

 

Not like the russians continued to buy italian shells after purchasing the ships.

 

Just think before you type something "realism"

TOO LATE!!!!!

[Historynerd]

On 2/4/2018 at 10:32 PM, Humorpalanta said:

Also: Spaghetti HE is basiclly the crappiest ever but sovietski cruisers (that are basically spaghetti ships) are über-brutal HE-spammers. Logic and Vodka isn't a smart decision boys.

AFAIK, based on what they were IRL, Italian HE shells turned out to be overall poor fire starters; however, they would also have a very large AoE (Area of Effect) shrapnel effect, but it's too bad that when they tested it it resulted in lots of detonations. So they took the former and shelved the latter, and it's no wonder it's crap.

 

The issue with the Abruzzi is that the AP isn't able to compensate, as on the Aosta you might be able to do.

[Aragathor]

33 minutes ago, Historynerd said:

AFAIK, based on what they were IRL, Italian HE shells turned out to be overall poor fire starters; however, they would also have a very large AoE (Area of Effect) shrapnel effect, but it's too bad that when they tested it it resulted in lots of detonations. So they took the former and shelved the latter, and it's no wonder it's crap.

 

The issue with the Abruzzi is that the AP isn't able to compensate, as on the Aosta you might be able to do.

Italian HE should have been the ultimate weapon against modules. An RM cruiser should be able to strip an AA cruiser of all of it's AA guns if WG had followed the source material for the ships.

Instead we have two premiums that are weak, with the Abruzzi being made playable with heal because WG has no clue how to make it work.

 

And the worst part of it is that the Italian cruisers were some of the most interesting designs of WW2.

[Exocet6951]

35 minutes ago, Historynerd said:

AFAIK, based on what they were IRL, Italian HE shells turned out to be overall poor fire starters; however, they would also have a very large AoE (Area of Effect) shrapnel effect, but it's too bad that when they tested it it resulted in lots of detonations. So they took the former and shelved the latter, and it's no wonder it's crap.

 

The issue with the Abruzzi is that the AP isn't able to compensate, as on the Aosta you might be able to do.

 

Is it the same problem as the Roma, where the HE shell is really just an SAP shell without any of the S or AP? 

[Aotearas]

You know, I wouldn't mind if the italian cruisers turned out to be the CA version of the RN CLs. AP shells only with amazing bounce angles, good ballistics and an improved heal to add to the survivability (doesn't have to be quite as good as the RN black magic heal though).

 

If bad HE shells is what we'd be historically looking at, why not drop them entirely?

[Exocet6951]

2 hours ago, Aotearas said:

You know, I wouldn't mind if the italian cruisers turned out to be the CA version of the RN CLs. AP shells only with amazing bounce angles, good ballistics and an improved heal to add to the survivability (doesn't have to be quite as good as the RN black magic heal though).

 

If bad HE shells is what we'd be historically looking at, why not drop them entirely?

 

While I don't doubt that it would be an interesting thing to see, I wouldn't hold me breath.
They already had the chance to do that with FR CAs and their historical sAP shells (almost the same bursting charge as HE shells), but instead went in favor of vanilla ammo. 

 

I think that after seeing the chaotic response to RN CLs and the continued misunderstanding about 203mm USN AP, RN BB HE compared to other BB HE, and even deepwater torpedoes, WG isn't interested in making specialty shells.
They simply aren't able to communicate the bonuses ingame, and the average player's inability to comprehend basic core mechanics in no small part due to the woefully inadequate in and out of game explanations/guides, means that we're unlikely to ever get any new twists on existing ammunition.