Discussion thread for "some interesting info around the world"

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

5 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Regardless of whether or not this is desirable, how can you even prevent this from happening?

 

The "problem" with CVs in this regard is that they follow a meta that, as far as the community is concerned, is long outdated. DDs were never supposed to lone wolf it everywhere like they do now, but instead still operate relatively close (aka within ~10km or so) of nearby AA cover to not only be able to run for it if enemy planes appear on the horizon, but to guard their teammates against enemy DDs, spot torpedoes and provide smoke cover as well. Distance to the enemy usually played no role as your (IJN) torps were either long ranged enough or you were a USN DD focused more on fleet defense and utility rather than being on the offensive. This playstyle still works to a large extend and is still very effective when contesting caps but barely anyone employs it anymore. Too often do I see DDs rushing headlong into a cap even when my planes are already on them when they could've easily reached friendly AA cover had they turned as soon as my aircraft appeared on the horizon.

 

On the other hand adjusting CVs to not enforce this playstyle is pretty much impossible. Even if you force them to use DW torps and AP bombs (which will likely never happen) this doesn't prevent them from targeting DDs with the latter, the comparatively low damage dealt can still easily turn a knifefight in their team's favor.

Very good & thoughtful post, Sir!

 

If Wargaming have not already co-opted you into the team that are re-working Carriers then they should!

[Darth_Glorious]

On 3/8/2018 at 5:31 AM, Affeks said:

I have checked the stats for the gun, and while I do believe Darth_Glorious is exaggerating, the dispersion IS much worse than a cruiser while gaining very few/none of benefits BB dispersion usually entails all the while losing the pure DPM advantage cruisers have. 

I'm not exaggerating. The gun misses reliably

Spoiler

https://postimg.org/image/xt54t7acr/

 

[Major_Damage225]

6 minutes ago, Darth_Glorious said:

I'm not exaggerating. The gun misses reliably

  Hide contents

https://postimg.org/image/xt54t7acr/

 

So Kronnys guns have the spray & pray FCS 

[22cm]

On 07.03.2018 at 7:56 PM, lankylad11_lankylad said:

A CV should be able to strike unaccompanied BBs and most DDs.  Its called counter play.  BBs have no counter at the moment.

Problem is that CV is able to strike BBs, DDs, and even cruisers when Def AA is on cooldown. Is the only class that can counter 3 classes, while being countered only by itself. DDs were supposed to be the counter for BBs

[22cm]

On 07.03.2018 at 10:30 PM, Sander93 said:

No, DDs should be the counter to BBs and most of them are. A CV should be a multirole supplement to the team that has the luxury of finishing off wounded, or damaging out-of-position enemies at any time. 

 

CV's should not be instantly nuking DDs and BBs like they do now. 

Exactly, it s the only class that hard counters 2 other classes, while being countered only by itself.

[Sander93]

6 hours ago, Darth_Glorious said:

I'm not exaggerating. The gun misses reliably

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https://postimg.org/image/xt54t7acr/

 

 

Lol, that looks like CBT/OBT Colorado all over again. That thing used to be so inaccurate there was a higher chance if hitting a ship if you actually didn't aim anywhere near it. 

[Gojuadorai]

8 hours ago, Darth_Glorious said:

I'm not exaggerating. The gun misses reliably

  Reveal hidden contents

https://postimg.org/image/xt54t7acr/

 

 

that makes my heart bleed.....

 

atm im really annoyed they made a whole line of BB's that are too inaccurate to be  played for anything butthe sake of playing a new line

and now introducing a new hybrid class with the trait of beeing bad at hitting things?

im (was??) so looking forward to stalingrad and kronstadt.

 

WG seriously needs to stop with that skillnormalization BS through more hit rng......

[Gojuadorai]

1 hour ago, LilJumpa said:

New content coming soon!
Welcome to the submarine mechanical combat dolphins! ⚓
We were not sure which nation to add them to first, but then we remembered that Italian forces stood out for great underwater exploits, so ...

 

 

58 minutes ago, peachpest said:

Just to add to the above:

 

 

 

 

is it 1st of april already??

[lankylad11_lankylad]

8 hours ago, 22cm said:

Problem is that CV is able to strike BBs, DDs, and even cruisers when Def AA is on cooldown. Is the only class that can counter 3 classes, while being countered only by itself. DDs were supposed to be the counter for BBs

any hope of that has been destroyed by radar, and in particular the radar on Missouri and hydro on german BBs.   See, I think hydro, defensive fire and radar should be on cruisers only

[Verdius]

1 hour ago, Gojuadorai said:

is it 1st of april already??

 

Don't forget we also have the space battleship mode soon

[Toivia]

Call me paranoid, but given the amount of work they seem to have given to these dolphin carriers and the dolphins themselves, I believe they're one of their tests for the CV rework.

[Affeks]

16 hours ago, Darth_Glorious said:

I'm not exaggerating. The gun misses reliably

  Hide contents

https://postimg.org/image/xt54t7acr/

 

Sub BB accuracy, no real overmatch thresholds reached, much lower alpha strike than BBs...

 

okay so what about these guns will carry the ship?

 

If this is the way they really will make the Large Cruiser archetype I have to get my hopes down. 2 years of anticipation very likely down the drain

[Exocet6951]

14 minutes ago, Affeks said:

Sub BB accuracy, no real overmatch thresholds reached, much lower alpha strike than BBs...

 

okay so what about these guns will carry the ship?

 

If this is the way they really will make the Large Cruiser archetype I have to get my hopes down. 2 years of anticipation very likely down the drain

 

Alas, there's no way to make large cruisers and cram them into TIX-X cruiser slots without making them either better cruisers, or meh battleships.


I'm still highly in favor of making them lower tier BBs, even if it means creating special values for there modules (such as quad bofors) in order to not completely break lower tiers.

[Affeks]

1 minute ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

Alas, there's no way to make large cruisers and cram them into TIX-X cruiser slots without making them either better cruisers, or meh battleships.


I'm still highly in favor of making them lower tier BBs, even if it means creating special values for there modules (such as quad bofors) in order to not completely break lower tiers.

I still think there are tons of reason why they could work inside their own niche at high tiers. Not gonna start another discussion on it, but man this is a piss poor first attempt if I ever saw one.

[Gojuadorai]

ships that big and unmanuverable with guns that cant overmatch and have armor that is clearly not battleship like need to be close to cruiser accurate.

[Affeks]

4 hours ago, Gojuadorai said:

ships that big and unmanuverable with guns that cant overmatch and have armor that is clearly not battleship like need to be close to cruiser accurate.

Give it Graf Spee accuracy for starters... 

[Gojuadorai]

18 minutes ago, Affeks said:

Give it Graf Spee accuracy for starters... 

 

i dont even know if that would be sufficient since  the graf only works somewhat cause of the tier its at.

i belive the same concept would struggle at tier 9 quite a bit. 

but i agre thats the absolute minimun that maybe could work

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

On 10.3.2018 at 7:24 AM, 22cm said:

Exactly, it s the only class that hard counters 2 other classes, while being countered only by itself.

 

CVs are also countered by AA cruisers like Cleveland, Des Moines, Minotaur  etc. 

Also don't forget part of the USN+RU DDs with their crazy DefAA. 

 

CV countered by CV+AA-CA/DD

DD countered by DD+CA (+BB because bugged AP) 

CA countered by CA+BB

BB countered by DD+CV+BB 

 

Seems legit.

BBs are absurdly powerful, it is ok that they have 3 counters.  

[Gojuadorai]

30 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

CVs are also countered by AA cruisers like Cleveland, Des Moines, Minotaur  etc. 

Also don't forget part of the USN+RU DDs with their crazy DefAA. 

 

CV countered by CV+AA-CA/DD

 

well locally countered

 

when comparing the AA range  and gunrange we see that the "regular counter range" is  way bigger.

 

 mostly "aa ships as counters" causes probems when:
- your AA counter just wont go where the ships that need protection  need to go.

- where he needs to go does not coincide with where the ships  to protect want/need to go

- he gets killed by stupidity or bad luck

- MM just dioesnt give you any 

 

so i belive there is  reason to differentiate between the countering situation of the 3 classic classes and cv's

 

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

3 hours ago, Gojuadorai said:

 

well locally countered

 

when comparing the AA range  and gunrange we see that the "regular counter range" is  way bigger.

 

 mostly "aa ships as counters" causes probems when:
- your AA counter just wont go where the ships that need protection  need to go.

- where he needs to go does not coincide with where the ships  to protect want/need to go

- he gets killed by stupidity or bad luck

- MM just dioesnt give you any 

 

so i belive there is  reason to differentiate between the countering situation of the 3 classic classes and cv's

 

 

Every ship is only a "local counter". 

 

People who don't play CV underestimate what it actually means, when a Des Moines or Minotaur is sitting in the middle of the map. 

 

The effect it has on you is enormous. 

Simply comparing AA range to gun range doesn't make sense, since planes have to get much closer to their target. 

 

The AA ship doesn't even have to be close enough, it just has to be in your way. 

[Gojuadorai]

15 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

Every ship is only a "local counter". 

 

thats why i compared the counter ranges to  make clear that i mean locally compared to other classes

 

Quote

People who don't play CV underestimate what it actually means, when a Des Moines or Minotaur is sitting in the middle of the map. 

 

thats doesnt go well with the  "just stick to an AA ship to not get torped" advice people hand out all the time 

it might be an huge annoyance to the cv bit does not protect you anywere but where the DM is

 

Quote

Simply comparing AA range to gun range doesn't make sense, since planes have to get much closer to their target. 

 

thats why i never did apply any metric to it.... just illustrating there is a significant difference.

the fact remains that a BB can counter an CA up to ~15-20KM  you cant be 15Km away from a DM and still have it counter the  CV.

yes thats not a bad thing and not saying you should

i wanted merely to point out that its stupid to make belive that you simply can sum up counterclasses,

assuming CV's work the same as the other 3 classes against each other.

 

just cause there are "the same ammount of counters"; ignoring Cvs need to be treated diffrently, does not equate to a balanced game!

[lankylad11_lankylad]

4 hours ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

CVs are also countered by AA cruisers like Cleveland, Des Moines, Minotaur  etc. 

Also don't forget part of the USN+RU DDs with their crazy DefAA. 

 

CV countered by CV+AA-CA/DD

DD countered by DD+CA (+BB because bugged AP) 

CA countered by CA+BB

BB countered by DD+CV+BB 

 

Seems legit.

BBs are absurdly powerful, it is ok that they have 3 counters.  

correct.  BB AA other than some exception should not be the main factor

[Verdius]

5 hours ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

CVs are also countered by AA cruisers like Cleveland, Des Moines, Minotaur  etc. 

Also don't forget part of the USN+RU DDs with their crazy DefAA. 

 

DD countered by DD+CA (+BB because bugged AP) 

 

Don't forget that any DD that does not have def AA (Japanese, German, and Khab line RU) gets countered hard by CVs as well.

[Boris_MNE]

So much shitalk about CVs, when they are so OP why I see barely 2 in que and i do play them all way from 7 to 10 every day?

OP OP OP OP OP OP OP class. Op class but no one wishes to play.... lel

[Nechrom]

6 minutes ago, Boris_MNE said:

So much shitalk about CVs, when they are so OP why I see barely 2 in que and i do play them all way from 7 to 10 every day?

OP OP OP OP OP OP OP class. Op class but no one wishes to play.... lel

The same reason why the two worst performing tier 10 DDs are also the two most played by a substantial margin.

 

People play ships for other reasons than their performance.