Discussion thread for "some interesting info around the world"

[LDPDC]

39 minutes ago, Bellegar said:

Edit: and of course I have been ninja'd some more while writing this huge wall of text

Well worth the read, thank you!

[Exocet6951]

42 minutes ago, Bellegar said:

Thanks

 

And I certainly hope so. Especially for both Chinas, but also a bit for the rest of the world

 

Try reading it all again, this isn't about any flag. This is about history, territorial claims and a bad statement form WG

 

 

If you knew anything about the inner workings of China, you wouldn't actually be hoping that a nation wanting independence from China re-integrates it.

One stroll at a train station with hundreds of people sleeping outside, too poor to afford houses while brand new armored police cars with brand new top of the line IR cameras monitors them is quite enough.


Also, I read it again.
It's still about Chinese mainlanders upset because WG dared to accidentally mutter the fact that Taiwan isn't part of China, which warranted a Chinese person living in the UK to report a video game company to the Chinese government.
Oh, I should remind you of a little fact: the Chinese government likes to buy massives stakes in profitable businesses.

[Verdius]

If Hong Kong  and the infringement on their rights is any example of what Taiwan would face then I don't think anyone would be for reintegration with the mainland.

 

22 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

Also, I read it again.
It's still about Chinese mainlanders upset because WG dared to accidentally mutter the fact that Taiwan isn't part of China, which warranted a Chinese person living in the UK to report a video game company to the Chinese government.
Oh, I should remind you of a little fact: the Chinese government likes to buy massives stakes in profitable businesses.

I mean it has come to the point where Transformers movies are called out for being Chinese propaganda because they include scenes that portray the Chinese Communist Party in a hyperpositive light, compared to other countries like the US, so that the movie can be released in China so that Hollywood can get at that juicy Chinese moviemoney.

 

The hand of Beijing is long and has many fingers that get to decide what other people should think about (PRC) China or else they will do their best to discredit and censor them. The party retoric of nationalism and revisionism that is engrained in the national education system makes a lot of people take the Taiwan issue as some sort of personal attack. The reality of Taiwan functioning as a seperate entity for over 70 years is not relevant to them because there is a one China policy which both the Chinese Communist Party and the Guomindang/Kuomintang agreed upon which calls China a single country that cannot be divided. Of course the fact that this policy doesn't mention which of the two governments is the legitimate ruler of China only makes the situation worse and these days we have Taiwanese parties campaigning more and more for independence with a Taiwanese identity separate from the mainland Chinese one. Tsai Ing-Wen stands for this new route that Taiwan seems to be headed as the previous KMT presidents policy of closer ties was extremely unpopular. The CCP still officially has plans to invade Taiwan by 2020, holds militairy drills for this, and regularly threatens to annex the territory by militairy force.

It is kind of typical of political topics that the decision to not take a position by WG says a lot about a political situation.
It is just a shame that it comes at the expense of Korea, Thailand, and Indonesia, the first of which I know quite a few people from who are now outraged that their flag gets censored because of China.

 

Not to mention people from Taiwan who are silenced by people from across the seas saying that it 'offends their national dignity'

[ForlornSailor]

20 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

One stroll at a train station with hundreds of people sleeping outside, too poor to afford houses while brand new armored police cars with brand new top of the line IR cameras monitors them is quite enough.

 

What country is this? Sounds like the United States.

 

21 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

that a nation wanting independence from China

 

Yea, you didnt read.  I knew you are stubborn when discussing things about the game. Now I knew, its just you in general...

[Chaos_Umbra]

I must be a bad person as we have some things that say 'Made in Taiwan', and a lot that say 'Made in China'. Am I acknowledging both identities in this case.

 

Also for the older ships that are labeled under the Republic of China are actually from before the People's Republic of China actually existed, so it would be completely wrong to put the current or any flag representing the PRC for those ships. Even the later ones are US ships that would of never been sold to a communist state during that period, at the same period that the west had products branded with 'Made in Taiwan'. So I don't think there was anything wrong with the differentiation that was in the game cause that was the situation back during the cold war when these ships were in service, none of it is saying that Taiwan is a separate nation nowadays, the flags are linked to a certain time in history where interaction between Capitalism and Communism was always with weapons pointed at the other, so I wouldn't really say that you could count the Naval forces on Taiwan at that point as Chinese.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

9 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Unless you are living in one of the contries marked on the following map - you are contradicting your own government. In that case, you might want to talk to your congressman, local politican or w/e is the resonsible person to talk to, if you want a change. Saying, its a fact, is else nothing more then your ignorance talking or a lie :)

 

 

Yes, I wouldn't want to disagree with my government.  

[Exocet6951]

8 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

What country is this? Sounds like the United States.

 

 

Yea, you didnt read.  I knew you are stubborn when discussing things about the game. Now I knew, its just you in general...

 

For the first point, you clearly haven't seen it.
It's not an off-shoot statement I'm making, it's something that's going to stick with me and revile me for the rest of my life.

HUNDREDS of people waiting for a job they might not get that day hours of train away that will grant them all combined a tenth of what a single door from that armored car cost in a single day.

There's nothing like it in the USA, and he oppressive feeling you get in China is absolutely enormous.
I went there on business/tourism last year, and I was nearly detained at the airport for making a tourist detour by Beijing.
I don't care if you don't believe me, I know what I've seen, and I know that no sane person would be happy with a state currently seeking separation from that just gave up and integrated it.

 

But yes, let's split hairs over semantics and forget the fact that this isn't about a private citizen pointing a finger at a game and writing a letter to his embassy while living in the UK so his non-EU goverment can coerce a private EU company through money into geting it's political way, over a slip of the tongue of a situation contested for years.
Because that's totally not shady at all.

 

PS: When someone's argument in prior conversations is "no I don't need to play this very unique class to see their shortcomings firsthand, I can be objective without it", they have no business saying people are stubborn.

[JaiFoh]

Suggestion
During special events have the national flags (for non China & Taiwan ships) an option to be worn like cosmetic flags if you complete missions during a period with those ships.

gives back individual choice
i'm from a Royal Navy Family who specialised in surface fleet, i do not take offense at the jolly roger.

[ForlornSailor]

4 hours ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Yes, I wouldn't want to disagree with my government.  

 

Oh I do disagree with my government on many things too. But the right place to do this is the offical wows-forum? My point was, I dont really care, if he personally likes the situation or on which "side" of that conflict he is - if he really is so upset with this, and wants things to change, he needs to go into politics. There is nothing WG can do over this?

 

1 hour ago, Exocet6951 said:

PS: When someone's argument in prior conversations is "no I don't need to play this very unique class to see their shortcomings firsthand, I can be objective without it", they have no business saying people are stubborn.

 

Yup, and this is the sole and only argument you have to "attack" my points. You cant quote anything from me, where im wrong. Must be hard, when you are trying to go into opposition with someone, yet you cant find anything reasonable to even touch his position. I rest my case.

 

About the rest you say: You cleary have an agenda against the PRC. Thats the reaons why you are upset with this situation. You are argueing totaly out of context. Btw - the things you describe, fit on hunders of countries all over the world. The other quote from you earlier suits perfectly on the US aswell f.e. or are you going to deny that?

 

1 hour ago, Exocet6951 said:

HUNDREDS of people waiting for a job they might not get that day hours of train away that will grant them all combined a tenth of what a single door from that armored car cost in a single day.

 

Again - this could be Bangladesh, Kenia, Senegal, Zimbabwe, Vietnam... I could continue to type a very long list.

 

1 hour ago, Exocet6951 said:

There's nothing like it in the USA, and he oppressive feeling you get in China is absolutely enormous.

 

Yea, its not like I have to give the US my biometric data, all my Social-media-accounts, tell them what faith I follow and on top of that, they have the entire internet-traffic backuped on their server to cross-check after they have all the information to form a searchpattern for my online-activities - after that, they concider letting me in their precious country? I dont want to turn this into a US vc China things, but since you bring it up....

 

1 hour ago, Exocet6951 said:

forget the fact that this isn't about a private citizen pointing a finger at a game and writing a letter to his embassy while living in the UK so his non-EU goverment can coerce a private EU company through money into geting it's political way

 

Every private person has a right to contact his embassy - after all, its what they are there for. You didnt do yourself before? I did. There is nothing wrong with this. Was there any offical reaction from the Embassy or the PRC-government? I dont see it. Anything else is exactly what you said - a private citizen contacting his embassy. And dont forget the fact, that WG as a company is doing business pretty much all over the world. They need to follow all kind of different laws, wheater YOU personaly like it or not. These are things, every company needs to concider. As I said earlier before - a company cant export anything they like to any country on the world - why arent you upset about this? I dont hear you complaining, that a high-tech-company from you area cant export microchips for aviationindustrie to Iran because the US wants to have their political way. Now you are going to tell me, how that is different. Ill wait and wonder.

[Bellegar]

11 hours ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

 

If you knew anything about the inner workings of China, you wouldn't actually be hoping that a nation wanting independence from China re-integrates it.

One stroll at a train station with hundreds of people sleeping outside, too poor to afford houses while brand new armored police cars with brand new top of the line IR cameras monitors them is quite enough.


Also, I read it again.
It's still about Chinese mainlanders upset because WG dared to accidentally mutter the fact that Taiwan isn't part of China, which warranted a Chinese person living in the UK to report a video game company to the Chinese government.
Oh, I should remind you of a little fact: the Chinese government likes to buy massives stakes in profitable businesses.

That's not what I meant. What I meant was that I hope that ROC will stop its claims for China mainland while PRC will stop its claims for Taiwan, thus enabling the 'regional' government of Taiwan (the ROC government according to them) declare independance without the risk of armed conflict with PRC.

 

That's what I meant, not reintegration with PRC/China mainland. I agree that would be a very very bad idea.

[HystericalAccuracy]

Well, now that i read this political discussion here, i fear that WG will not dare to bring the Tegetthoff - Dreadnoughts to Wows 

 

The (let´s call it Adriatic Fleet) changed its political structure several times; and also its flags, ofc.

- until 1918 it was Austro-Hungaria

- between the WW´s it was the "Kingdom of Serbs and Croats" (if i remember correctly)

- 1945-1990ies it was Yugoslavia

- since 1990ies it´s the Republic Croatia

 

So, would the SMS Tegetthoff fly the Hungarian, Austrian, Croatian or Yugoslav flag? WG doesn´t even show the Kaiser-flag of the Bayern - so how would they decide in this case?

 

...and imagine the chaos if WG tries to make a Pan-European tree, which i would like to have (the tree, not the chaos).

 

Picture taken from here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Tegetthoff_(1912)

[Boris_MNE]

For game time, adriatic fleet can only include Kingdom of Serbs and Croats and Yugoslavia as tier IX, X ships.

[ForlornSailor]

3 minutes ago, drmajga said:

i fear that WG will not dare to bring the Tegetthoff - Dreadnoughts to Wows 

 

Nah I dont think this recent even would prevent us from seeing ships from k.u.k. Kriegsmarine. I´d love for them to be in the game myself, actually.

I dont see anything wrong with this flag? It has been used from 1869 to 1914.

 

Quote

The flag, formally adopted as Marineflagge (naval ensign) was based on the colours of the Archduchy of Austria. It served as the official flag also after the Ausgleich in 1867, when the Austrian navy became the Austro-Hungarian Navy.

 

[Bellegar]

26 minutes ago, drmajga said:

Well, now that i read this political discussion here, i fear that WG will not dare to bring the Tegetthoff - Dreadnoughts to Wows 

 

The (let´s call it Adriatic Fleet) changed its political structure several times; and also its flags, ofc.

- until 1918 it was Austro-Hungaria

- between the WW´s it was the "Kingdom of Serbs and Croats" (if i remember correctly)

- 1945-1990ies it was Yugoslavia

- since 1990ies it´s the Republic Croatia

 

So, would the SMS Tegetthoff fly the Hungarian, Austrian, Croatian or Yugoslav flag? WG doesn´t even show the Kaiser-flag of the Bayern - so how would they decide in this case?

 

...and imagine the chaos if WG tries to make a Pan-European tree, which i would like to have (the tree, not the chaos).

 

Picture taken from here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Tegetthoff_(1912)

I think they should be fine. I must be really careful with my wording here, but generally speaking, there's much less sting between European nations than there is over China.

Also, with the upcoming flag customisation tool, it shouldn't be an issue at all, since everybody could just pick the flag they like best.

[pra3y]

22 minutes ago, Bellegar said:

I think they should be fine. I must be really careful with my wording here, but generally speaking, there's much less sting between European nations than there is over China.

 

Given how Europe is like now i really doubt so. Nationalism is somewhat on the the rise again and with so many countries on the continent there  is bound to be alot of butt-hurt people compared to China.

[Darth_Glorious]

On 11/17/2017 at 5:12 PM, SeeteufeI said:

Seems like all Russian destroyers got it back. Can you confirm this? Unfortunately I'm not on PTS to look it up myself.

Yes, all of them

 

[pra3y]

Tashkent has the gun range of a tier 8 CA with AFT and the module.

[Verdius]

Is there any reason given as to why Khab gets buffed? Or is this just some mistake that slipped through onto the PTS?
I mean there was a reason they took its long range away, and if they are thinking about buffing a T10 DD you'd hope that they'd at least pick one that actually needs help *cough* Shima *cough*

[Panocek]

Just now, Verdius said:

Is there any reason given as to why Khab gets buffed? Or is this just some mistake that slipped through onto the PTS?
I mean there was a reason they took it away, and if they are thinking about buffing a T10 DD you'd hope that they'd at least pick one that actually needs help *cough* Shima *cough*

 

Russians never had the upgrade in first place

[Verdius]

Just now, Panocek said:

 

Russians never had the upgrade in first place

 

No, but Khab used to have longer gun range which this effectively gives back.

[Panocek]

Just now, Verdius said:

 

No, but Khab used to have longer gun range which this effectively gives back.

At cost of extra reload, 0.5s to be specific

[Major_Damage225]

32 minutes ago, Panocek said:

At cost of extra reload, 0.5s to be specific

Concidering the range increase, that 0.5 seconds is irelevant. 

[Panocek]

13 minutes ago, Major_Damage225 said:

Concidering the range increase, that 0.5 seconds is irelevant. 

 

The same can be said about any non BB gun really. Z-46/52/Grozovoi: 4s->3.5s, Gearing: 3s->2.6s. Minotaur 3.2s->2.8s, while all the ships gain 2 kilometers in range, if not more

 

Tashkent gets 17.6km range with AFT and upgrade, Udaloi gets 16.8km range. And these are (a lot) less clumsy than Khaba when it comes to WSAD hax

[44smok]

Considering 12% more DPM the range increase is irrelevant

[PseudoMi]

Flamu confirmed it's a bug.