Discussion thread for "some interesting info around the world"

[Culiacan_Mexico]

17 minutes ago, Affeks said:

... DD that cant Torp DDs in knife fights or smokes, cant torp CLs camping in smoke or cant kill radar cruiser safely with torps is pretty much terrible...

They can now sit in the back with those BB players that like to camp.

[KaLeuWillenbrock]

11 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

They can now sit in the back with those BB players that like to camp.

only, if they can't hit cruisers.

 

cruisers already suffer from torpedo hits and they are sluggish on higher tiers.

 

right now, the new DDs look even more OP, than the german ones in their first form (before the first massive nerf before release).

 

its not looking good and i feel bad for investing so much time into the german DD line.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

7 minutes ago, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

only, if they can't hit cruisers.

                                                          Tier VI    Tier VII    Tier VIII    Tier IX    Tier X

Torpedo Detection Range                   1.2 km    1.3 km    1.1 km    1.4 km    1.4 km
"Deep Water" Detection Range           0.8 km    0.8 km    0.7 km    0.8 km    0.8 km

 

If they do hit cruisers, reaction time is reduce by about 1/3, which is a significant nerf.   I can't see how that is justified.

 

This isn't a Battleships nerf, but a cruiser one.

[KaLeuWillenbrock]

they will only pest the camping BBs, if they can not hit cruisers.

Cruisers usually are the second line, between DDs and BBs. 

to get to the camping BBs, they need to get past the cruisers.

 

but why get past the cruisers, if you can sink the cruisers with ease?

 

three hits from those things and every cruiser on their tier will be toast.

 

i just hope those DDs will get an even harder neef during testing, than the german DDs or all the other DD lines, except the Russians, will become third class.

[Unintentional_submarine]

6 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

                                                          Tier VI    Tier VII    Tier VIII    Tier IX    Tier X

Torpedo Detection Range                   1.2 km    1.3 km    1.1 km    1.4 km    1.4 km
"Deep Water" Detection Range           0.8 km    0.8 km    0.7 km    0.8 km    0.8 km

 

If they do hit cruisers, reaction time is reduce by about 1/3, which is a significant nerf.   I can't see how that is justified.

 

This isn't a Battleships nerf, but a cruiser one.

 

Indeed it is. Apparently S_O has confirmed somewhere (if anyone knows where it would be nice to see it linked) that only DDs go free from the deep runners. BBs will just naturally gravitate back a bit, so they are outside the range and/or other ships detect the torps for them. Cruisers can't really head back in the same way for the most part, so they are stuck in the effective range of the torps from an enemy that hasn't flanked wide (which is the only real way to get to the BBs, and it is also generally stupid).

BBs will perhaps get annoyed somewhat more, but cruisers are the ones that will face the torps the most. Combine it with Graf Zeppelin's potential AP bombs that hurt cruisers, they are being put in a bit of a bind.

[creamgravy]

37 minutes ago, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

and now compare this ship to the lieberecht maass

 

Compare it to ALL tier 7 destroyers. It's has Sims DPM, Blyska broadside, sets the same number of fires as Kiev (forget Lenin) AND it's a stealthy torpedo boat to match Kagero (Shiratwho?)

I know they want to keep Benson > Fletcher > Gearing progression but sticking a standard J/K/N class at tier 7 is crazy. Crap AA and 10 x 8km torpedoes ain't going to do it.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

1 minute ago, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

...i just hope those DDs will get an even harder neef during testing...

The answer is obvious: allow DDs to select torpedo type in game, while making cruiser immune to the new torpedoes.  

[Horin728]

Source: https://www.facebook.com/wowsdevblog

Update 0.6.9, Graf Zeppelin testing

2-3-0 Flight control, that was tested before, turned out to be too efficient against destroyers. More versatile 2-1-2 option lacks any special flavor and is not interesting in general. Thus, we're testing 2-0-3 with PC-500 RS (Paulina) AP bomb as an optional module. In real life, such bombs were equipped with solid booster engine, which results in 245 mm in-game penetration. The fuse arms at 35 mm of effective armor. Such bomb parameters combined with high manual attack accuracy should allow to deal massive alpha damage to BBs, and even to cruisers, if squadrons are skillfully controlled.

 

I guess that the Midway lacks any special favour and is not interresting in general...

 

Roflmao..

 

[KaLeuWillenbrock]

2 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

The answer is obvious: allow DDs to select torpedo type in game, while making cruiser immune to the new torpedoes.  

it is an obvious adjustment.

 

but is wargaming clever enough to implement it that way?

 

when you change the torpedoes, your need to wait for the reload. Fair trade.

 

on the other hand, the new ships have very stronk stats. Japanese concealment, american guns ... what's next? Russian durability and german hydro?

[Hades_warrior]

1 hour ago, Bellegar said:

: at this point I wonder how many people will become feared of flying if I say my avatar's an aircraft because I'm an aircraft maintenance engineer

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  Reveal hidden contents

It's true actually, I'm not trolling

 

 

Engineer or air traffic controller? Either way, my skin would tingle in the air a la Peter Parker.

But work in the Navy is cool too.

[Spellfire40]

12 minutes ago, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

they will only pest the camping BBs, if they can not hit cruisers.

Cruisers usually are the second line, between DDs and BBs. 

to get to the camping BBs, they need to get past the cruisers.

 

but why get past the cruisers, if you can sink the cruisers with ease?

 

three hits from those things and every cruiser on their tier will be toast.

 

i just hope those DDs will get an even harder neef during testing, than the german DDs or all the other DD lines, except the Russians, will become third class.

in what world do you live in? in high tir you either lob Shells over Island cower inside a smoke Cloud or Play the 14km+burn down the BB game. if you suport your DDs in between BBs and DDs you get the concentrated fire of all enemy BBs on top of that of the enemy CA/CL and wond make it past the 1st few minutes and of those RN CL will still see the torps coming thanks to sonar....

[KaLeuWillenbrock]

well. I have to be between the BBs and the DDs, because my Hindenburg is using the reload instead of the range mod.

 

and most BB like to have a bit of distance between each other.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

13 minutes ago, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

it is an obvious adjustment.

 

but is wargaming clever enough to implement it that way?

 

when you change the torpedoes, your need to wait for the reload. Fair trade.

 

on the other hand, the new ships have very stronk stats. Japanese concealment, american guns ... what's next? Russian durability and german hydro?

I could be doing it wrong, but.. it looks like at some tiers cruiser will have there reaction time reduced to about 4.5 seconds.

 

Because a lot of cruiser players are on or near the front, there will be no one to spot the torpedoes a head of time.  That seems a bit rough.

 

D_range / (V_torp * .0026) = T_reaction  

 

 

 

[Nechrom]

If a cruiser relies on being able to avoid torpedoes after he has personally detected them, I don't feel sorry if he gets punished.

There is still hydro, actually changing course/speed, fighters (air visibility of deep torps?) etc.

 

Deep torps effects negatively exactly the players they should. The ones which only reacts when the torpedo indicator starts beeping.

[KaLeuWillenbrock]

16 hours ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

I could be doing it wrong, but.. it looks like at some tiers cruiser will have there reaction time reduced to about 4.5 seconds.

 

Because a lot of cruiser players are on or near the front, there will be no one will spot them a head of time.  That seems a bit rough.

 

D_range / (V_torp * .0026) = T_reaction  

 

 

 

Exactly my point.

 

the you have very stealthy torpedoes on very stealthy boats. If you skill torpedo acceleration, your torpedoes will be 73 knots fast, with 1.4 km visibility. this is hard to dodge. As a bonus, they still have almost 11km range.

 

and that's only the normal torpedoes.

 

16 hours ago, Nechrom said:

If a cruiser relies on being able to avoid torpedoes after he has personally detected them, I don't feel sorry if he gets punished.

There is still hydro, actually changing course/speed, fighters (air visibility of deep torps?) etc.

 

Deep torps effects negatively exactly the players they should. The ones which only reacts when the torpedo indicator starts beeping.

hydro has cooldown and the detection ranges under 0.8 km is nothing you can dodge anymore. Especially, if they are fast.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

4 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

...Deep torps effects negatively exactly the players they should...

Cruisers?

[Nechrom]

1 minute ago, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

hydro has cooldown and the detection ranges under 0.8 km is nothing you can dodge anymore. Especially, if they are fast.

 

And what has everyone been telling BB players all this time? WASD.

Don't sail predictably and if any ship class could do that easily it should be cruisers.

 

Pop hydro when you go in close to where DDs are and do what you have to do before the hydro runs out. Immunity to torps shouldn't be a 24/7 ability.

[KaLeuWillenbrock]

1 minute ago, Nechrom said:

 

And what has everyone been telling BB players all this time? WASD.

Don't sail predictably and if any ship class could do that easily it should be cruisers.

 

Pop hydro when you go in close to where DDs are and do what you have to do before the hydro runs out. Immunity to torps shouldn't be a 24/7 ability.

because DDs are actually the counter to BBs?

 

and we (cruisers) already are using our wasd hacks, because most of us are sluggish.

 

its already hard enough (if not impossible) to dodge american torpedoes with acceleration. 

 

the new torpedoes would push it even harder and actually turn the table.

 

the new DD line would be able to effectively counter EVERY class in the game.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

6 minutes ago, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

...the new DD line would be able to effectively counter EVERY class in the game...

Will it?  As is stated now, DD players must choose before the game starts: choose normal torpedoes and nothing is very different, but if you choose the new torpedoes cruiser will suffer but your ability to counter other DDs is nerfed.

 

More BBs will just sit in the back and be relatively unaffected.

 

 

[Nechrom]

2 minutes ago, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

because DDs are actually the counter to BBs?

 

and we (cruisers) already are using our wasd hacks, because most of us are sluggish.

 

its already hard enough (if not impossible) to dodge american torpedoes with acceleration. 

 

the new torpedoes would push it even harder and actually turn the table.

 

the new DD line would be able to effectively counter EVERY class in the game.

 

And having only BBs as potential targets every 2 minutes at best didn't work.

So here we are trying to make torpedoes viable again.

 

Haven't checked out the new DDs. Only concerning myself with deep torps as a concept. I assume that the idea isn't to keep those unique to the Pan-Asian line if they are implemented.

 

The thing with torpedoes is that they still have to actually hit a ship after 15-40 sec of traveling in the initial launch direction.

If you "WASD" in that period then any torp hits are down to luck. Kind of like how every other armament works, except the travel time is longer as a trade off for the target not knowing you fired at them.

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

2 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Will it?  As is stated now, DD players must choose before the game starts: choose normal torpedoes and nothing is very different, but if you choose the new torpedoes cruiser will suffer but your ability to counter other DDs is nerfed.

they, from what I've seen, have US-Guns and good concealement... so VS other DDs: Get close and pepper them i guess

[Spellfire40]

20 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

 

And what has everyone been telling BB players all this time? WASD.

Don't sail predictably and if any ship class could do that easily it should be cruisers.

 

Pop hydro when you go in close to where DDs are and do what you have to do before the hydro runs out. Immunity to torps shouldn't be a 24/7 ability.

You have to be fair thogh cruisers Job if posible is to hunt DDs or at least push them from cap plus only german CA usally have usable hydro at high tir. Problem is that once they spoted they usally deleted by BBs if you do that early game. If you manage to survive past 10 minutes its important thogh and DDs are not suposed to conter CA/CL in they same way that BB AP os not suposed to wreck DDs as hard as Cruiser citadels.....

[Culiacan_Mexico]

Just now, GrossadmiralThrawn said:

they, from what I've seen, have US-Guns and good concealement... so VS other DDs: Get close and pepper them i guess

Maybe.  I will have to wait until the come out, but I don't believe they will be releases 'as is'.  

[Gojuadorai]

2 hours ago, Boris_MNE said:

- cruisers are already screwed  by 1x torp hit now they are threatened by stealthier more damging torps

To change this it is needed literary 2 seconds developer to edit number for depth and they will no longer be able to hit cruisers.

- only one line can use them

Sub_Octavian said they will consider add it on another dds, but of course for start it is the best 1 line to have them, if they are bad, they can be removed quickly.

- you need to choose pre battle

If they really put it on that way yes, they will be crap but we will see (again depends on first bold sentence)

- the deep water torps are stalthier and do the same dmg with same speed and same range this IMHO violates WG's internal logic of determining range speed and dmg, 

they always justify it with a trade of for warhead size etc because of the limited torp space. now they get a larger warhead for free?

imho the better stealth is already enough or do you want  even more insta-gib in this game?

If they can hit only one class, and bypass other 2 i would say they are highly situational. And bbs will be forced to MOVE.

 

 

Therefore, I am not judging anything untill I see their design... lot of important stats can be changed within 2 seconds of editing code so .. lets wait :)

 

yeah you dissmiss arguments because you make an assumption about a change... yeah right...

 

also my 4th point isnt dismissed becasue the curent calc formula for top dmg which is based on original warhead weight is still violated.

apart from the gamplay implications which are bad even if your assumption holds (that they dont hit cruisers)

[Hades_warrior]

 

Quote

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/common/fish-and-ships/

Earning one blueprint unlocks the Tier III Bellerophon
Earning two blueprints unlocks the Tier IV Orion
Earning all three blueprints unlocks the Tier V Iron Duke

 

 

Now this make sense on subject of ''early access''.