Discussion thread for "some interesting info around the world"

[Herrscher_Elysia]

17 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

Did the same calc as you I reckon somewhere between 500k and 600k

 

Russian calculator is stronkest calculator! 

 

11 minutes ago, Donar79 said:

 

However the progression in WoBs isnt a flat line ...its a curved line

 

Its concerns me. World of Bull-shits?

[genai]

On 03. 08. 2017. at 1:31 PM, Freyr_90 said:

Really? 

 

Yes really. Unless you think that drop from 45-50k to 20-25k is not a 50% drop? Then i guess im wrong.

 

 

On 03. 08. 2017. at 1:47 PM, GhostRider_24 said:

 

And your evidence about losing 50% of the player base is? 

 

My evidence is the fact that game had 45k-50k players during peak hours and is now at 20-25k.

 

What kind of questions are those? Its not like its some kind of top secret.

This game is terribly designed, and its quite obvious. People making decisions are totally lacking common sense. Compared to WoT, this game is a trainwreck of a design. And it shows in numbers too, WoT went up for 2-3 years before stagnating, and WoWs went DOWN for 6 months after release and now its stagnating for a while, barely limping.

 

And its not even hard to see why, as they went totally opposite ways with the games. One went with more balanced approach (play class you like playing, you can perform well if you play it well) and it went through the roof and other is trying to force some historical crap (play 1 class or you are useless, and that class is most boring one) and it went down fast. One doesnt force teamplay(every tank and every class can hold its own, as well as deal with other classes, if played to its strengths), but rewards it (sharing damage rewards by spotting, tracking and stuff) and other game is forcing teamplay but punishing it at the same time(CA vs BB, no reward for anything other than damage dealing while some are designed to deal more than others and be heavily favored), with no rewards for teamplay whatsoever.

 

One has disadvantage of a pretty static gameplay by default (tanks standing still peekabooing around houses) and they try to make it more dynamic and other game has advantage of naturally dynamic gameplay (ships constantly moving, evading, predicting and not just laserlike point and click like in WoT) but devs do all they can to make it more passive, campy and boring by punishing close range, making HE spam be all end all and smoke camping being the "ultimate" teamplay (not rewarded at all, mostly punished because DD wont have it for himself) even though its terrible for the game.

 

No wonder most of the "normal" players quit, as they go for fun and enjoyment, not for ships/tanks and famous stuff. Very few of those are left in WoWs, as devs are doing everything they can to alienate people who want to just have fun and are not hardcore or ship/war fanboys.

 

But bottom line is, i was here before they started ruining the game, and i was here when game was so hyped and many waited for wipe and release after being hyped up by stuff in CBT (before changes) and it shot to 50k at peak hours, and then quit very quickly because game just was 80% less fun than before (made up percentage obviously, but quite a lot less fun... Had Zao in beta, i didnt need any other ships because it was so fun to play... abandoned it after 7(yes seven) games after release(other games were played when i came back, after a long break, to make a point about something from certain discussion here on forums).

 

Its not rocket science, its quite obvious and easy to see... at least for unbiased people who just want to play a game and have fun, and dont care what is the name of ship, what class beats what class, what class was "badass" in real life etc. I dont care about tanks and dont care about ships, i play what is fun to play. Im sure there re many similar out there, and not many are playing WoWs... or it would climb after release, not instantly drop and stay low.

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

1 hour ago, Exocet6951 said:

They didn't just take the best shells of a production run, they made a special "testing" batch which was basically always of higher grade.

And their requirement for what a penetration is was laxer as well. A successful penetration for them was, if I remember correctly, 50% of the mass of the shell going through flat armor.

 

no... the armour was angled at 30° from the vertical (or 60° from the horizontal)... what you are talking about I guess is Ensign Expendable load of crap... for most of the guys I know, Archive Awareness is a bad joke you only look at for a laugh or for the sources that actually have the interesting stuff...

 

50% penetration was the US-American standard used in WWII ballistics and gunnery, which, for the german guns, GAVE A HIGHER penetration number than the german test...

 

for example:

right: KWK 40 L48, penetration on 100m with Pzgr 39: 99mm, 126mm with Pzgr 40

compared to the US Test:

Penetration on 100 yards with hte Pzgr 39: 135mm, 176 for the Pzgr 40...

https://de.scribd.com/doc/219173969/WWII-Ballistics-Armor-and-Gunnery

 

jump to position 116 to 118, that's the german stuff

 

1) Best quality production ammo OR specially produced... so...

 

 

http://www.panzer-war.com/page33.html

4) is german testing criteria

[mtm78]

I got a feeling I might need to apologize for opening that can worms...

 

Then again, maybe this discussion about relative values and testing methods could take place outside of this thread as I fear it might drag on and on and on and on... as these do almost always :)

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

1 minute ago, mtm78 said:

I got a feeling I might need to apologize for opening that can worms...

 

Then again, maybe this discussion about relative values and testing methods could take place outside of this thread as I fear it might drag on and on and on and on... as these do almost always :)

nah, I proved my point with one of the go-to sources about tank gun penetration of tank guns of WW II, I'm out

[Donar79]

29 minutes ago, IJN_Kitakami said:

 

Russian calculator is stronkest calculator! 

 

 

Its concerns me. World of Bull-shits?

if u like....But i meant World of Battleships

 

3 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

I got a feeling I might need to apologize for opening that can worms...

 

Then again, maybe this discussion about relative values and testing methods could take place outside of this thread as I fear it might drag on and on and on and on... as these do almost always :)

This! Please

[Fat_Maniac]

1 hour ago, Bellegar said:

 

we can of course argue about the price

 

No we cant. WG are free to set the price they want to.

As customers our only option is to buy said product or not for the price they are asking.

Deciding if the price is fair is a matter of public opinion, and we can all have different views on that.

You dont walk into a supermarket and start arguing about the price of a kilo of apples with the company, you vote with your wallet.

[Herrscher_Elysia]

15 minutes ago, Donar79 said:

if u like....But i meant World of Battleships

 

Ohh... forgot this game actual name.

[ilhilh]

Nelson as a free XP ship.  That is news I like to hear!  I am currently sat with a large amount of free XP - I won't even need to wait for a free XP conversion discount to make it a good enough deal for me like I did with the Missouri.

 

 

This is what happens when 3 out of your last 6 supercontainers are filled with 50k free XP each :D

 

On top of this I still have loads of flags that would allow me to push this up a lot higher.

 

 

 

Yes, I am gloating.  I love gloating.

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

1 minute ago, ilhilh said:

 

This is what happens when 3 out of your last 6 supercontainers are filled with 50k free XP each :D

 

lucky you... 2 friends of mine got prem ships... one the Krasny Krim (he was less than happy with that) and the other one Prinz eugen... everytime i get a Super Container (~ 1 every 100 years) it's filled with crap...

[mtm78]

New feature request: raid free xp from other players, pay 50 doubloons for the 10% chance to get half of someone's free xp and credits

 

Immunity comes with the special Premium^plus© subscription of 50 euro a month. 

[Tuccy]

2 hours ago, Bellegar said:

 

Here I disagree. As Marvin said, it is very difficult to say anything sensible about effective armor thickness. Some ships/armors might have proper sources, but some do not, making it impossible to implement the feature. If you want to do that, you have to do it for all armors, and that's not possible. That's why raw thickness is the best as they can get. It isn't the perfect solution, but it's the best solution.

 

 

 

To make the can of worms even worse, the performance of armor does not depend only on what thickness/treatment, but also what is hitting it. Hence the 88mm FlaK achieving slightly more with the same penetration (FlaK were generally not assigned the newer PzGr.39 reserved for Tigers and suchlike) as 7.5cm PaK against some targets - esp. against sloped armor - while failing against other (cases of shattering on KV-1). The larger, heavier shell was able to overmatch better. Same way Tiger and KV's were designed with softer armor than Panther and T-34 - the harder, thinner and angled armor of the medium tanks was designed to stop antitank guns of their time reliably, but suffered when hit with overmatching shells, softer thicker armor limited spalling. And then you get into the shell issues (with the 76mm APC having higher penetration than APCBC, but shattering on hardened armor or at extremely short range etc.).

 

With warships it is even more problematic as 1. the armor has a more complex structure and 2. there is far less example where you can actually measure to check if what the specs say really happened (as plate may even behave directly if the welds get ripped and thus it has a free edge). Not to forget most countries (well, all of them) tested guns on their own armor plates. So... It is overall simpler and "good enough" to stick to the thickness and not open the quality/special properties can of worms.

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

5 minutes ago, Tuccy said:

Same way Tiger and KV's were designed with softer armor than Panther and T-34 - the harder, thinner and angled armor of the medium tanks was designed to stop antitank guns of their time reliably, but suffered when hit with overmatching shells, softer thicker armor limited spalling. And then you get into the shell issues (with the 76mm APC having higher penetration than APCBC, but shattering on hardened armor or at extremely short range etc.).

I know that the Panzer IV had the hardest armour of the german tanks and I also know that hte early Panthers (until roughly Panther A production, and even then a few) had FHA instead of RHA, but I think later Panther As and Panther Gs received RHA of lower hardness.

 

in regards of hte shell issues: or like soviet AP shells shattering on FHA... the problems of APDS... then we could also include fuze problems that had been in pretty much all APHE shells, be they 37mm or 460mm

[Hades_warrior]

30 minutes ago, GrossadmiralThrawn said:

lucky you... 2 friends of mine got prem ships... one the Krasny Krim (he was less than happy with that) and the other one Prinz eugen... everytime i get a Super Container (~ 1 every 100 years) it's filled with crap...

Whats a super container?

 

 

Spoiler

 

[Bellegar]

1 hour ago, Fat_Maniac said:

 

No we cant. WG are free to set the price they want to.

As customers our only option is to buy said product or not for the price they are asking.

Deciding if the price is fair is a matter of public opinion, and we can all have different views on that.

You dont walk into a supermarket and start arguing about the price of a kilo of apples with the company, you vote with your wallet.

Well yes of course. But we can tell the supermarket what price we think is fair for a special kind of apples which will be in store soon. Obviously, it's the supermarket's choice whether they act according to our opinion or not.

 

The reason I wrote that post is that I truly hope WG will be sensible about Nelson's price tag. Such an iconic ship should be played regularly. Missouri has no competition as it's the only T9 premium, but at T7 there is plenty alternatives. If Nelson is generally deemed too expensive, 'normal' people (the non Nelson fans) would just play the competitors. Which would be a shame of such an iconic ship, and a waste of WG's resources.

Let's stick to the apple analogy and put it this way: IF the supermarket prices the special apples too high compared to regular apples, people would leave the special apples. Is it really the supermarket's best interest to be left with a basket of the best apples ever rotting away because they priced them too high?

[Fat_Maniac]

4 minutes ago, Bellegar said:

Well yes of course. But we can tell the supermarket what price we think is fair for a special kind of apples which will be in store soon. Obviously, it's the supermarket's choice whether they act according to our opinion or not.

 

The reason I wrote that post is that I truly hope WG will be sensible about Nelson's price tag. Such an iconic ship should be played regularly. Missouri has no competition as it's the only T9 premium, but at T7 there is plenty alternatives. If Nelson is generally deemed too expensive, 'normal' people (the non Nelson fans) would just play the competitors. Which would be a shame of such an iconic ship, and a waste of WG's resources.

Let's stick to the apple analogy and put it this way: IF the supermarket prices the special apples too high compared to regular apples, people would leave the special apples. Is it really the supermarket's best interest to be left with a basket of the best apples ever rotting away because they priced them too high?

I know exactly what you are saying, but,...

 

WG have already said Nelsons play style is completely different to the rest of the line and most players couldn't cope with her being silver. That translates to me as she is a special ship with a unique play style, and therefore we can have her at a premium price because of her unique nature.

[Verdius]

Quote

Q: How does WG view the potential overbuffing of premiums, given how some premiums receive very heavy-handed buffs instead of slow-and-steady?

 

A. The Lo Yang is now unquestionably one of the best (if not the best) DDs at T8, to the extent that competitive rules require caps on it. We may also see this phenomenon in randoms with the T7 Indianapolis (being a straight up better Pensa overall). –  Lo Yang in its current state is viable and good, but not the best T8 DD. It has become more universal, but still loses in terms of separate specializations – you can find a better torpedo boats, gun boats. As for premium ships tuning, we don’t want to do micro invisible buffs to them, we calculate safe and sufficient value and apply it. That’s all.

What?

This also doesn't answer the question.
Also as long as Belfast exists Indi is never going to be the competitive T7 ship.

Besides isn't it kind of ridiculous how (at least with this wording) there is a conscious push to make compeitive exclusive to premium ships by making them better than their tech tree counterparts? This does not seem like an issue to WG?

[WestyII]

RN DD's not in development 

[Nechrom]

7 hours ago, Hades_warrior said:

Like some people said, even 250k is a challenge to get for a normal players who dont spend doubloons.

 

And that's kind of the idea, no?

Normally you spend real money to get premium ships, especially tier 7 and up.

 

Also now we have access to super special flags which give crazy amounts of free XP.

 

If it goes for under 500k free XP I'm going to be surprised.

[aquiles7389]

4 hours ago, Bellegar said:

 

Here I disagree. As Marvin said, it is very difficult to say anything sensible about effective armor thickness. Some ships/armors might have proper sources, but some do not, making it impossible to implement the feature. If you want to do that, you have to do it for all armors, and that's not possible. That's why raw thickness is the best as they can get. It isn't the perfect solution, but it's the best solution.

 

I'm gonna trust you on your maths here, I'm too lazy to do them myself

 

Take the 210k of the most expensive ship, slap some more on the price for being able to train captains, maybe some extra comsumables and other special stuff, and I think 250-300k would be fair. 330-350k maximum.

@Sub_Octavian, I'm sorry for my blunt words, but saying we would want it at 50k is a stupid argument. Yes of course we would like to get it as cheap as possible, but there is a thing called common sense. We all know 50k free xp for a T7 BB is stupid and nobody is asking for that.

Some people are arguing it should be regular T7 or money premium, but that's just another opinion. You clearly disagree and that's not too bad. People often disagree. But even those people are not asking for an unfairly low free xp price tag. If it has to be a free xp ship, and apparently you guys decided it should be, we can of course argue about the price. We can agree or disagree with the decision of Nelson being a free xp ship, but that's not the point on the new discussion.

 

As I said I think around 300k would be fair. That way it would be more expensive than regular T7 ships (as it should be), and right between the free xp equivalent of Scharnhorst's cost (assuming a cost of 10k doubloons for easy maths) with (350k) and without (250k) free xp conversion bonus.

 

I think WG should also take into account here the fact that Missouri is the only T9 premium, and Nelson/Rodney (I hope it will be Rodney) isn't. This could possibly mean that people that 'only' need a UK BB captain trainer would just not bother with Nelson if it's too expensive. Of course the class is special, and especially Rodney is quite famous, and of course some people will want to have it just for historical or collection's sake, but the masses will just not bother if her 'price' is exeptionally high in comparison to other T7 BBs, both premium and non premium.

 

 

This is all my opinion of course, but I think there's a strong case for a cost of around 300k. As I said I'm afraid nobody other than hardcore Nelson/Rodney/history fans will play the ship if the price will be too high compared to other T7 ships, especially premiums since they have the same or comparable captain training, camo and consumable bonuses. And that would be a shame for such an iconic ship

 

They dont know what are you talking about...

[Otto_Carius_512]

6 hours ago, FireRM said:

You can have an iconic Premium T7 ship for free, as long as you play the game, but you still complain because you might have to play a bit more to get it.

 

WG must love customers like you and the ppl that liked your post...do you keep forgetting that it was WG who decided to not give us Nelson in the Tree at the first place and by that making her available at a fraction of the games it needs to get her for some insane amount of free Xp right? And i bet well over 50% of Nelsons we will see are "bought" not earned...so your "for free" might be true on paper but not on WG Bank-Account.

Or do you really believe those "unbalancable" posts regarding the other known ships (like releasing PoW at 8 and Vanguard...that will be 100% one of the next prems because she EXISTED at 9)? Really? Yah sry no point trying to help you anymore from here on.

[Robber_Baron]

1 hour ago, WestyII said:

RN DD's not in development 

I'm disappointed, I was looking forward to them, maybe my expectations were too high after some WG employee announced them for being planned this year.

 

I'm all in for a Mahan buff by the way.

[GhostRiderMax123]

6 hours ago, genai said:

 

Yes really. Unless you think that drop from 45-50k to 20-25k is not a 50% drop? Then i guess im wrong.

 

 

 

My evidence is the fact that game had 45k-50k players during peak hours and is now at 20-25k.

 

What kind of questions are those? Its not like its some kind of top secret.

This game is terribly designed, and its quite obvious. People making decisions are totally lacking common sense. Compared to WoT, this game is a trainwreck of a design. And it shows in numbers too, WoT went up for 2-3 years before stagnating, and WoWs went DOWN for 6 months after release and now its stagnating for a while, barely limping.

 

And its not even hard to see why, as they went totally opposite ways with the games. One went with more balanced approach (play class you like playing, you can perform well if you play it well) and it went through the roof and other is trying to force some historical crap (play 1 class or you are useless, and that class is most boring one) and it went down fast. One doesnt force teamplay(every tank and every class can hold its own, as well as deal with other classes, if played to its strengths), but rewards it (sharing damage rewards by spotting, tracking and stuff) and other game is forcing teamplay but punishing it at the same time(CA vs BB, no reward for anything other than damage dealing while some are designed to deal more than others and be heavily favored), with no rewards for teamplay whatsoever.

 

One has disadvantage of a pretty static gameplay by default (tanks standing still peekabooing around houses) and they try to make it more dynamic and other game has advantage of naturally dynamic gameplay (ships constantly moving, evading, predicting and not just laserlike point and click like in WoT) but devs do all they can to make it more passive, campy and boring by punishing close range, making HE spam be all end all and smoke camping being the "ultimate" teamplay (not rewarded at all, mostly punished because DD wont have it for himself) even though its terrible for the game.

 

No wonder most of the "normal" players quit, as they go for fun and enjoyment, not for ships/tanks and famous stuff. Very few of those are left in WoWs, as devs are doing everything they can to alienate people who want to just have fun and are not hardcore or ship/war fanboys.

 

But bottom line is, i was here before they started ruining the game, and i was here when game was so hyped and many waited for wipe and release after being hyped up by stuff in CBT (before changes) and it shot to 50k at peak hours, and then quit very quickly because game just was 80% less fun than before (made up percentage obviously, but quite a lot less fun... Had Zao in beta, i didnt need any other ships because it was so fun to play... abandoned it after 7(yes seven) games after release(other games were played when i came back, after a long break, to make a point about something from certain discussion here on forums).

 

Its not rocket science, its quite obvious and easy to see... at least for unbiased people who just want to play a game and have fun, and dont care what is the name of ship, what class beats what class, what class was "badass" in real life etc. I dont care about tanks and dont care about ships, i play what is fun to play. Im sure there re many similar out there, and not many are playing WoWs... or it would climb after release, not instantly drop and stay low.

 

TL:DR

 

Also I have yet to see any sources other than your word :)

[Nechrom]

8 minutes ago, Robber_Baron said:

I'm disappointed, I was looking forward to them, maybe my expectations were too high after some WG employee announced them for being planned this year.

 

I'm all in for a Mahan buff by the way.

 

There are so many ship lines waiting to be developed though.

I'd like to see some Italian battleships or cruisers before the RN gets a 3rd line. Even the French battleships would be nice.

I know people have battleship fatigue, but there is only so much you can do with a DD line no matter how much you like the class.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this but I actually think I'd rather see a RN CV line before another DD line. Would shake up the CV meta if nothing else and inject some variety into the mostly CV-less battles.

[Otto_Carius_512]

afair the Q+A around 11. of Jan. said something about a

RU DD split (that happened)

another RN Line (which we will get quite soon)

Legendary Cpts. (like Yamamoto),

PvE Missions (which we got)

sound and grafik improvement

new upgrades

rework of Cpt. Skills (we got all of that alrdy.)

2 Frensh Lines (we have one!)

 

So Guys all that´s left is a new frensh line!

 

I think we saw some Jean Bart footage in a Video, but i dot think we will see 2 BB lines back to back...so frensh DDs?