BB's stock hulls initiave

[1MajorKoenig]

 

Exactly. For BBs, the majority of naval power will fit into T3 - T5/6 (T7 tops for R.N. Nelson and Vanguard ). So in reality R.N. will have 5 Real BBs and 3 paper designs to match monsters like Yamato, Montana, Izumo and all op.CVs harrasing

It is shame that higher tier BBs are all just wrapped around very few excess ships (few build, rest on paper).

 

True. But this is also due to the game mechanics. IRL Yamato had some serious shortcomings, such as fire control and shells. I read that the shells were not nearly as effective as the huge caliber suggests. Combined with fire superior fire control + radar on Iowa I would see the two as equal. On the game however they are clearly not equal in strength. That would supports that it would have been an option to reduce high tiers by one.

 

I guess the reason is more WG's obsession with fantasy + paper projects. 

[anve8004]

I guess the reason is more WG's obsession with fantasy + paper projects. 

 

I think they already know they are in trouble as the initial tiering concept made out of monstrous JAP and US high-tier ships as well as CVs harrasing early T4 ships already hits this game really hard while they're trying to implement the other nations. The question is whether they decide to do anything about it before it's too late or whether they still force themselves to produce more and more unnecesay high-tier paperboard ships and "what-if" fantasy upgrades for mid and low tiers (the whole german BB line is a great example for this huge misconception).

 

Because if they're don't going to do anything about it, this game might  / will end up with more then 30% of the purely WG made up designs (on T8 - T10) and another 30% (T4 - T6) will be heavily altered / mutilated (new fantasy hulls and ridiculous superstructures, etc) to boost their AAs and stats for the T4+ CV battles (which is allready WW2 era.. ). And if that happens I won't be playing this game any longer..

 

Like I mentioned, this Copy+paste WOT tiering concept does not work and will not work here..

 

[1MajorKoenig]

My strong guess is that the latter will happen. Paper+fantasy on T9+10 (8 is usually the WW2 ship tier so a lot of nations can still fill 8).

 

T4-6 will continue to see fantasy refits all over the place. I think a fundamental difference is that WG doesn't see a problem with that while I clearly do.

 

And you are right about the power progression. WG didn't fully think the progression through but took only IJN and USN to calibrate the game's scale. Both navies are "topheavy" with regards to timeline with little significance during the first important third of the century and a extremely heavy emphasis on WW2. As you said, ship vs ship battles happened much earlier than that - during the pacific war there were only two (!) BB vs BZb encounters in total. The real war was fought by the carriers and planes with support from DD and CL / CA.

 

Coming back to the progression piece: the scale does make a lot of sense for tanks but it doesn't do naval warfare any justice. Unfortunately WG jinxed themselves only looking at the two starting navies at the beginning and not designing an overall balanced scenario. That is exactly what leads to this "shoe horning" as seen with the RN cruisers and the GER battleship fantasy refits. And the more you try to fudge onto this - the more difficult it will be to make things fit.

 

I really like the game but am disappointed by the above.

[VC381]

While I'm generally on your side with the realistic hulls issue and agree the game could be tiered much better, unfortunately it won't matter what we think. Most players want a good game and probably care more about awesome ships than real ships. I'm slightly guilty of this as I'm a fan of some of the projects (the real design, nearly built variety). Having said that, so much of this game is "what-if", with everyone fighting everyone, that after a point it doesn't matter.

 

It is a shame that many real ships might not make it into the game because they would all be the same (low) tier, but at the same time you have to admit that the 1930s and WWII were a pretty boring time for battleship design and big gun naval warfare. The only way to make it interesting and balanced is to pad it out. The only way to get what you guys are after is to make a completely separate WWI game.

[anve8004]

It is a shame that many real ships might not make it into the game because they would all be the same (low) tier, but at the same time you have to admit that the 1930s and WWII were a pretty boring time for battleship design and big gun naval warfare. The only way to make it interesting and balanced is to pad it out.

 

Exactly as you said. Majority of ppl playing this game just want "awsome ships" and WG will do anything to make them happy. They (WG) really don't care about ship enthusiasts and historical accuracy (at least by appearance) in fact.. they just do with the ships whatever they want.. and unfortunately, they starting to be "good" at it by bringing more and more "awesomeness" into their "World Of Fictional Ships".

 

[1MajorKoenig]

While I'm generally on your side with the realistic hulls issue and agree the game could be tiered much better, unfortunately it won't matter what we think.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi, you are abolutely right - that it is fighting wind mills :-)

 

However, complaining is always easier than proposing something better so I did create some trees in the past and updated them recently with some of the new ships - just share them here for fun - knowing WG won't make use of any of these suggestions. Doesn't matter.

 

Enjoy

     

[VC381]

I like your tree ideas but as we've agreed WGs rigid system won't allow even that tweak. However, it seems WG have hit on something I consider to be an acceptable solution:

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/69190-mutsu-the-slug-is-coming/

 

So Konig Albert, now this. If stock hulls don't fit the games concept of WWII setting and progression but premiums allow space for these to be implemented in an alternative way, I'm very much OK with it.