BB's stock hulls initiave

[JeepGucci_2]

 

Don't forget Konig Albert.

How could I considering that my Player Name is of the First Saxon King and König Albert is the one ot the Last:-) For the shield on its Bow alone I would buy the Ship

[Todger_Fairmile]

How could I considering that my Player Name is of the First Saxon King and König Albert is the one ot the Last:-) For the shield on its Bow alone I would buy the Ship

 

Was hoping she would be on sale this weekend.

[JeepGucci_2]

I think that the German Premium Ship(s) will appear in Shop a few days before Gamescon

[Todger_Fairmile]

I think that the German Premium Ship(s) will appear in Shop a few days before Gamescon

 

This weekend would have been a perfect time. You could even use Albert to train captains (already in reserve) for the bb's.

[JeepGucci_2]

Just saw a video about the BAYERN in Game and I was disgusted how this fine Battleship got "remodelled" by WG. Instead of leaping forward and using other ship types to follow en suite WG "upgrades" ships until you cant identify the original any more.

I am healed from this game..really healed

[piritskenyer]

[fnord_disc]

Just so a vid about the BAYERN in Game and I was disgusted how this fine Battleship got "remodelled" by WG. Instead of leaping forward and using other ship types to follow en suite WG "upgrades" ships until you cant identify the original any more.

I am healed from this game..really healed

 

Looks like a plausible remodel to me. Care to explain which parts of it you think are unrealistic for a 30s remodel?

[piritskenyer]

 

Looks like a plausible remodel to me. Care to explain which parts of it you think are unrealistic for a 30s remodel?

 

I think the idea of a thought of a whisper of a remodel are heresy to him, hence my response.

[JeepGucci_2]

 

Looks like a plausible remodel to me. Care to explain which parts of it you think are unrealistic for a 30s remodel?

 

It is a complete fantasy to remodel the Kaiser, König and Bayern to "suit" 1930's look. They would rather have taken any of those design studies and made that in best Russian style a futuristic battleship than to remodel ships that actually where scuttled 1919. The following Weimarer Republik had to follow the restrictions of the Treaty of Versailles and Capital Ship Building did not happen until the 1930s when new designs where taken into considerations. Therefore the Brain Food of the remaining Marine Staff should have been taken to create a Fantasy Ship between Bayern and Gneisenau. Something like this here

http://dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/SM_Studienentwurf/Schnelle_GrosseKampfschiffe_4541_100dpi.jpg

On behalf of making those ships Tier IV to V able... Why not fumbling around on the Nikolai? Because it is Russsian? I actually shot down planes with this ship. By the current MM I stumble quite often in tho matches with Ships  that don't have AA but have CVs on both teams....it is not funny at all but you learn to stick with ships that have AA to cover you too.

Therefore it would not have been neccessary to remodel ships to have AA.and disfigure it the way they did. THAT is the reason for this Threat, Because so many like to have the ships the way the have been...and NOT to re-design existing ships to create something entirely new. Btw., en example for using a "fantasy"-design is allready around: The YORCK a 1923 study.

WG had only to add NUMBERS in the calculating program for AA and not to change the appearence of the Ship.

[Bismarck_chan]

Nooo! Not more paper ships. I infinitely prefer having actually existing ships with fantasy upgrades to having ships that only ever existed as a sketch. And with WoWs current system I can just downgrade my hull for the historic Dreadnought experience in coop. 

 

Actually, I'd prefer a system going from 1-20 Tiers, but it's too late for that.  

[puxflacet]

 I infinitely prefer having actually existing ships with fantasy upgrades to having ships that only ever existed as a sketch.

 

interesting...i have the opposite opinion on this. i dont mind fictional upgrades on paper ships just because they are fictional already but prefer historical ship to preserve their look. this is WoT syndrome when iconic machines like Panther are barely recognizable because of tons of fictional upgrades put on them. 

 

but anyway wg did so far great job with japanese fictional refits so it is surprising for me that these germans look so weird.

 

but if there would be enough space and treatment for ww1 ships in tiering system, kaiser, konig and bayern would not need fictional refits and could stay as they were historically and interwar period could be covered with unfinished/paper projects like mackensen, ersatz york etc....this would be the best way imho

[mtm78]

WG had only to add NUMBERS in the calculating program for AA and not to change the appearence of the Ship.

 

And there we have it...

 

Some of us actually like the fact that AAA is calculated according to the same values for each AAA gun. The same gun on a different ship should perform like the same gun on another ship ( if shooting same ammo ) . Why is that less important than your overwhelming desire to not let WG remodel the ships in according to a possible upgrade to bring them in line with their competitors?

[piritskenyer]

 

It is a complete fantasy to remodel the Kaiser, König and Bayern to "suit" 1930's look. They would rather have taken any of those design studies and made that in best Russian style a futuristic battleship than to remodel ships that actually where scuttled 1919. The following Weimarer Republik had to follow the restrictions of the Treaty of Versailles and Capital Ship Building did not happen until the 1930s when new designs where taken into considerations. Therefore the Brain Food of the remaining Marine Staff should have been taken to create a Fantasy Ship between Bayern and Gneisenau. Something like this here

http://dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/SM_Studienentwurf/Schnelle_GrosseKampfschiffe_4541_100dpi.jpg

On behalf of making those ships Tier IV to V able... Why not fumbling around on the Nikolai? Because it is Russsian? I actually shot down planes with this ship. By the current MM I stumble quite often in tho matches with Ships  that don't have AA but have CVs on both teams....it is not funny at all but you learn to stick with ships that have AA to cover you too.

Therefore it would not have been neccessary to remodel ships to have AA.and disfigure it the way they did. THAT is the reason for this Threat, Because so many like to have the ships the way the have been...and NOT to re-design existing ships to create something entirely new. Btw., en example for using a "fantasy"-design is allready around: The YORCK a 1923 study.

WG had only to add NUMBERS in the calculating program for AA and not to change the appearence of the Ship.

 

Why do they need to mess around with appearances?

 

Because of the little thing called immersion. Immersion not only means that you are feeling like you are in a rel battle or some such, it also means that ships look the part. At T4-5 a WWI BB does NOT look the part. You can look at any of the WWI configured ships and the one common thing you'll see is that they are flat with very little in the way of AA capacity. Yo brought up Nikolai as an example. Well, the Nikolai looks like she was supposed to, and has shite for AA in exchange.

Do you expect anyone to bump up the firepower of 4 88mm/45 MPL C/13 moutings' firepower to T5 level? [edited]off. If you want to see the historical arrangements, go watch pictures of the ships.

This is not a museum, neither is it a historical simulation. If you think this what-if "heresy" started with WG, you clearly never been on the internet son.

If you really knew how the game mechanics work, you wouldn't say things like "omg, it's all just numbers, you can change those".

 

Adding a full fantasy ship would bring upon whine. Whine from the same peple whie now and more. You'd be at the forefront being like "OMG WHERES MUH BAYERN".

 

 

Pleasing you "purists" is impossible, so you'll just have to suck it up for the sake of gameplay.

[puxflacet]

Why do they need to mess around with appearances?

 

Because of the little thing called immersion. Immersion not only means that you are feeling like you are in a rel battle or some such, it also means that ships look the part. At T4-5 a WWI BB does NOT look the part. 

 

you somehow forget that these ww1 configurations are already in the game...and you dont mind seeing st. louis next to refitted kongo? or 1930's patrol boat next to mikasa or albany?...if that's not ruining immersion for you so probably nothing will

 

EDIT: not to mention every pre1920 ship meeting aircraft carriers

[piritskenyer]

 

you somehow forget that these ww1 configurations are already in the game...and you dont mind seeing st. louis next to refitted kongo? or 1930's patrol boat next to mikasa or albany?...if that's not ruin immersion for you so probably nothing will

 

 

Oh FFS, how [edited]thick are you people

 

[puxflacet]

Oh FFS, how [edited]thick are you people

 

nvm

[piritskenyer]

If you could read at all, then you would have understood, that what I was trying to tell you people is that a ship with good AA, LOOKS like a ship with good AA. You can'T take a flat-top 1910's BB, stick 4 MG's on it and give it good AA stats. At T5 a flat top BB will not look immersive. At each tierthe ships are more or less in line in their top configuration. The example you employed is now not even possible anymore, so joke's on you, now ships that never ever appeared in the same time don't get slotted together in MM either. So no St Louis and Kongo.

 

Like I said.

You can kick and whine all you want, but you'll just have to suck it up.

[1MajorKoenig]

 

And there we have it...

 

Some of us actually like the fact that AAA is calculated according to the same values for each AAA gun. The same gun on a different ship should perform like the same gun on another ship ( if shooting same ammo ) . Why is that less important than your overwhelming desire to not let WG remodel the ships in according to a possible upgrade to bring them in line with their competitors?

 

Only where it convenient apparently. Look at secondary artillery - same guns, different ships, different stats. The fantasy stuff is more because WG wants every tier to appear like WW2 - that seems to be all. Stats are always tweaked the way it's needed. 

[puxflacet]

piritskenyer, on 11 August 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

If you could read at all, then you would have understood, that what I was trying to tell you people is that a ship with good AA, LOOKS like a ship with good AA. You can'T take a flat-top 1910's BB, stick 4 MG's on it and give it good AA stats. At T5 a flat top BB will not look immersive. At each tierthe ships are more or less in line in their top configuration. 

 

i agree that aa gun's damage output should stay plausible

 

piritskenyer, on 11 August 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

The example you employed is now not even possible anymore, so joke's on you, now ships that never ever appeared in the same time don't get slotted together in MM either. So no St Louis and Kongo.

 

st.louis is not meeting kongo anymore?

[mtm78]

 

Only where it convenient apparently. Look at secondary artillery - same guns, different ships, different stats. The fantasy stuff is more because WG wants every tier to appear like WW2 - that seems to be all. Stats are always tweaked the way it's needed. 

 

That is true, secondary guns are being used as balancing factor where the same mounts have different characteristics on different hulls. That still leaves the fact that 

You can'T take a flat-top 1910's BB, stick 4 MG's on it and give it good AA stats. At T5 a flat top BB will not look immersive.

[piritskenyer]

Not since last patch.

 

I agree with having the original (WWI) configurations of ships in the game, however, I find it highly angering that you guys blindly oppose any kind of logically made remodels for the '30s and '40s looks for ships in the name of historical accuracy, when historical accuracy has been stated to be relegated to second place behind gameplay. The bread and butter of ships after their main armament in WW2 was AA, mostly because aircraft became the main strike arm of blue-water navies.

As I have said earlier, you cannot have 4 7mm-calibre MG's and call that air defence anymore. Besides, just bumping characteristics without people seeing why and how they are bumped is also nonsensical.

Let's take Fuso as an example:

• stock hull gets 13.6km range on the historical look
• B hull gets 19.5km range on the upgraded look (w/o the FCS upgrade), because of the much taller mast with firecontrol equipment in it.

 

You can't just go and say: look, the bayern can now shoot out to 17.7km but looks like a WWI BB. That just doesn'T work. WWI configs also don'T allow for sustantial AA suites, which, as I've said are indispensable.

[puxflacet]

 I agree with having the original (WWI) configurations of ships in the game, however, I find it highly angering that you guys blindly oppose any kind of logically made remodels for the '30s and '40s looks for ships

 

never said that. my main objections against german fictional hulls were that they simply doesnt look good. i was questioning hull upgrades concept in general

 

...and agree with what you wrote. there is just problem that 1900-1920's are squeezed into two tiers + bb's ww1 and 1930's hulls sharing same tiers which causes that they are meeting unnatural adversaries.

 

 At T5 a flat top BB will not look immersive.

 

still stands that we have flat top 1910 bb's on tier 5 even 6 and i agree completely that they shouldnt be there...thats actually what this thread is all about - solving issue with ships 30 years in future or past which ruins immersion for me

 

  now ships that never ever appeared in the same time don't get slotted together in MM either. 

 

that's simply not true. the mm change in last patch maybe showed that wg is probably aware of this issue, but we have long way to go...if ever

 

 The bread and butter of ships after their main armament in WW2 was AA, mostly because aircraft became the main strike arm of blue-water navies.

 

and because of that i also suggested that maybe would be better to just remove everything before 1920 and admit that his is ww2 game.

[1MajorKoenig]

We don't. Fantasy elite hulls are fine on T5 and 6 as long as they are plausible (don't like the Bayern upgrade much but ok). However I strongly disagree with the T4 refit. Kaiser is in my opinion absolutely ok on WW1 config on T4 with a historical accurate tubular foremast upgrade to solve the range issue.

 

In fact my main trouble is KAISER and that some WW1 hulls are missing.

[JeepGucci_2]

Not since last patch.

 

I agree with having the original (WWI) configurations of ships in the game, however, I find it highly angering that you guys blindly oppose any kind of logically made remodels for the '30s and '40s looks for ships in the name of historical accuracy, when historical accuracy has been stated to be relegated to second place behind gameplay. The bread and butter of ships after their main armament in WW2 was AA, mostly because aircraft became the main strike arm of blue-water navies.

As I have said earlier, you cannot have 4 7mm-calibre MG's and call that air defence anymore. Besides, just bumping characteristics without people seeing why and how they are bumped is also nonsensical.

Let's take Fuso as an example:

• stock hull gets 13.6km range on the historical look
• B hull gets 19.5km range on the upgraded look (w/o the FCS upgrade), because of the much taller mast with firecontrol equipment in it.

 

You can't just go and say: look, the bayern can now shoot out to 17.7km but looks like a WWI BB. That just doesn'T work. WWI configs also don'T allow for sustantial AA suites, which, as I've said are indispensable.

 

I dont have to remodell a ship that has been scuttled 1919! If they remodel ships that survived the Great War 1914-1918 than I say Yes, Great Job! But this only happened to US, some British and of course IJN Ships. The few ships that where "improved" in Germany are not even included in the game.

[JeepGucci_2]

Kaiser and König Hulls are my issue too. It seems that Bayern has a least a Stock Configuration that has the original Hull. And I am, for my part, not affraid to go into a battle that contains CVs with ships that have no AA at all