BB's stock hulls initiave

[mtm78]

And do you know why she is a free-xp sink? Because of the reasons we are discussing here right from the start.

 

You know that these stock hulls are useless but you dont want anything to be done about that.

 

Ok. I give up, becouse this is really futile fight.

 

Yes, you seem to not get the reasons your suggestions go against the WG game design ( yes, that includes revenue generation ). 

 

If you really want Age of Dreadnoughts, go get some game company to design that from the start. 

 

Or, wait for if/when WG will make something to cater to historical battles enthusiasts in a different setting than random battles. 

[deadly_if_swallowed]

Easiest suggestion for now might be a "WWI/Dreadnought Society" (like HMS_Worcester's Mikasa Appreciation Society - see my signature) with tournaments in Training Room strictly tied to WWI ships.

 

Suggestion still stands ;) OP was about WWI battles from the golden age of dreadnoughts, and I think we more or less concluded that WWI layouts do have a place in the current game mechanics but are meant to be replaced by advanced armament to keep up with the competition.

There will be a Mikasa/Pre-Dreadnought event in August, hosted by HMS_Worcester. I am very curious how that will turn out.

[mtm78]

 

Suggestion still stands ;) OP was about WWI battles from the golden age of dreadnoughts, and I think we more or less concluded that WWI layouts do have a place in the current game mechanics but are meant to be replaced by advanced armament to keep up with the competition.

There will be a Mikasa/Pre-Dreadnought event in August, hosted by HMS_Worcester. I am very curious how that will turn out.

 

Don't forget these -> http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/45996-historical-battles-general-thread-they-are-back/

[puxflacet]

Yes, you seem to not get the reasons your suggestions go against the WG game design ( yes, that includes revenue generation ). 

pretty much everyone right from the start was against my proposals and i agreed with them, because they came up with ideas - you can even see my likes under their posts

 

but at least i was proposing something, you just came here to mock another member and then you were repeating other's ideas and even telling me what should i do with my time and energy

[mtm78]

pretty much everyone right from the start was against my proposals and i agreed with them - you can even see my likes under their posts

 

but at least i was proposing something, you just came here to mock another member and then you were repeating other's ideas and even telling me what should i do with my time and energy

 

I wasn't mocking him, I just found it funny he saw the Ev1n post and chose to ignore it.

 

As to 'repeating OTHER people's idea's' 

 

 

edit: And I don't dare tell you what you have to do with your time and energy, I was telling you however that they would be better spent elsewhere as 'fighting the wind' is something which usually doesn't end well. 

 

[puxflacet]

This game needs stock hull for people like me to throw money in it. Money means keeping the game going. So no need to change them. Stock hulls need to be crap.

mtm78, on 15 July 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

...( yes, that includes revenue generation )...

was that your idea?

 

Spellfire40, on 13 July 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

This isnt age of dreadnout.

mtm78, on 15 July 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

Age of Dreadnoughts

or this?

 

I'd rather just make a separate (likely PvE) mode where you can safely sail your old banger without fear of carriers or modern(ized) ships giving you grief.

mtm78, on 14 July 2016 - 07:56 AM, said:

PVE historical engagements

...or this...

 

[mtm78]

puxflacet, on 15 July 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

was that your idea? Yes, can't help it if you can't think on your own and couldn't see the relevancy 

 

or this? hahahaha omg you're grasping for straws right 

...or this... Ask Ev1n, the answer might surprise you 

 

[puxflacet]

i believe the problem is digged in the fact that this game started with japanese and american battleships only and developers did not really anticipated what will come with other navies. 

since japanese and american battleship practically had no important part in ww1, noone really mind that the original configurations of the battleships has no use (me included) and japanese actually had just few dreadnought battleship classes.

but with germans and later brits there will be seriously very different situation, because most of the battleship classes of these navies were built as dreadnoughts. we already see what happened with germans. there are 5 new dreadnought battleships about to be included, yet two of them will not have the original dreadnought configuration (surprisingly tier 6 will have its ww1 configuration while tier 4 and 5 will not) 

i think this problem is inevitable and can not be ignored

[puxflacet]

also many objected that this game is not "Age of Dreadnoughts"...

i thought that this is obvious for every navy fan, but evidently i have to prove it to you:

 

dreadnought-era BBs and BCs classes of the royal navy:

1. dreadnought
2. bellerophon
3. st. vincent
4. neptune
5. colossus
6. invincible
7. indefatigable
8. iron duke
9. orion
10. lion
11. king george v 1911
12. agincourt
13. queen mary
14. tiger
15. queen elisabeth
16. renown
17. revenge
18. courageous

 

post ww1 era BBs and BCs, including refits

1. (iron duke - ref...ok this class will maybe make a good transition)
2. queen elisabeth - ref
3. renown - ref
4. revenge - ref
5. hood
6. nelson
7. king george v
8. vanguard

 

when there is no proper place for dreadnoughts in this game, im really curious what wg will do with royal navy

 

[fnord_disc]

 

when there is no proper place for dreadnoughts in this game, im really curious what wg will do with royal navy

 

 

Ignore most of them. Obviously??

 

A lot of American and Japanese classes were omitted too.

 

The idea of this game is not to have 10 tiers of pretty similar dreadnoughts.

[puxflacet]

ise is the only japanse battleships (relevant for the game timeline) which is not in the game

 

fnord_disc, on 19 July 2016 - 11:20 PM, said:

Ignore most of them. Obviously??

what about when wg will want to add some premium battleships, battlecruiser line or second bb line? will they squeeze all of them to tier 3? or will they dig up some never built designs? 

[fnord_disc]

ise is the only japanse battleships (relevant for the game timeline) which is not in the game

 

Tosa class is indispensable and needs to be in the game eventually.

 

Kii... Kii is arguable. Nr 13 too.

[puxflacet]

Kii... Kii is arguable. Nr 13 too.

never heard of these

 

EDIT: looks like amagi...when we speaking about pretty similar designs...

[fnord_disc]

never heard of these

 

EDIT: looks like amagi...when we speaking about pretty similar designs...

 

Yeah see and that's why it's not in the game and only a part of all those British tubs will be in it too.

[puxflacet]

 

Tosa class is indispensable and needs to be in the game eventually.

 

Kii... Kii is arguable. Nr 13 too.

 

and none of these ships were ever built and according to you they have to be in the game. you are calling me dreadnought fan and that i favour them over the others but youre doing the same thing but from the opposite end...

 

and fyi - i'm not a dreadnought fan and never was. actually i was always more into pre-dreads and ww2 ships. but i like more real ships and history than paper stuff and fantasy

[fnord_disc]

 

and none of these ships were ever built and according to you they have to be in the game. you are calling me dreadnought fan and that i favour them over the others but youre doing the same thing but from the opposite end...

 

and fyi - i'm not a dreadnought fan and never was. actually i was always more into pre-dreads and ww2 ships. but i like more real ships and history than paper stuff and fantasy

 

No, you don't understand the point of me saying all those things. I'm not saying my ships have to be in it and yours deserve to be left out in the cold.

 

I'm saying we need to look at what is absolutely necessary, design a timeline around that and and cut the things that don't fit. Everyone, no matter which time you like, has to let go of some ships.

 

Everyone who plays this game has seen some of their favorite ships ignored and not implemented. I still have no Kaga or Akagi CV! You and your allies keep trying to paint yourselves as victims and whine how you're not getting the ships you want.

 

The game has been like that for a lot of people for a long time and they don't spam into 15 topics whining about their favorite rust buckets!

[puxflacet]

i told you that im not a fan of these ships. i just think there is a game concept flaw which is turning this game into fantasy...and thats the prospect i dont like

[KPtja]

i told you that im not a fan of these ships. i just think there is a game concept flaw which is turning this game into fantasy...and thats the prospect i dont like

 

Then simply this is not game for you. As it has been clear as day from day zero, that this game is built balance first and huuuuuge amount of ahistorical stuff will end in game if it survives for years. And most of us do not care. Like said in other threads, you are fighting windmills here.

[puxflacet]

 As it has been clear as day from day zero, that this game is built balance first and huuuuuge amount of ahistorical stuff

was it really so clear? i did not see whats about to come when this game was released. pretty much everything there was historical stuff or what we expected to fill the holes but now it seems that real stuff will fill the holes for the fake ships...and why?

as i said the problem was that japanese and americans battleships were not important before 1920 - either there were just few of them (japan) or their refitted versions were what matters (usa) and the game concept was built around them

 

but now it seems that the biggest, most numerous navy of the world, will have bb tech tree filled with paper ships because of that flaw. this game technically starts in 1900 but it is absolutelly unprepared for ww1 ships

 

so either this will be ignored as you said and this game will end up like real mess or wg will try to do something about it. and i think there are just 2 solutions - make some space down tiers (remove patrol boats, remove 1930 refits for ships up to tier 5, start carriers at tier 5) or admits that this is ww2 game and remove all the stuff before 1920

 

...but you're right that if this wont be solved i'll probably leave the game anyway. but i think i will not be the only one...

 

...then i will donwload some game which is not afraid to admit that it is steampunk fantasy (and i wonder why this game still has some historical stuff? maybe because all these ships are such famous trademarks with no intellectual rights charges, right?)

[KPtja]

was it really so clear? i did not see whats about to come when this game was released. pretty much everything there was historical stuff or what we expected to fill the holes but now it seems that real stuff will fill the holes for the fake ships...and why?

as i said the problem was that japanese and americans battleships were not important before 1920 - either there were just few of them (japan) or their refitted versions were what matters (usa) and the game concept was built around them

 

but now it seems that the biggest, most numerous navy of the world, will have bb tech tree filled with paper ships because of that flaw. this game technically starts in 1900 but it is absolutelly unprepared for ww1 ships

 

so either this will be ignored as you said and this game will end up like real mess or wg will try to do something about it. and i think there are just 2 solutions - make some space down tiers (remove patrol boats, remove 1930 refits for ships to tier 5, start carriers at tier 5) or admits that this is ww2 game and remove all the stuff before 1920

 

...but you're right that if this wont be solved i probably left the game anyway. but i think i will not be the only one

Yes it was very very very clear as we did have older brother to show big picture. And no mess. The one other game is doing very well. Like I said most of us do not care.

[puxflacet]

... we did have older brother to show big picture...

and it was also said many times that copy/paste WoT game desing was not a very smart decision, because ships are not like tanks and the timeframe also differs

[KPtja]

and it was also said many times that copy/paste WoT game desing was not a very smart decision, because ships are not like tanks and the timeframe also differs

 

Few people saying that does not make it not smart. Bottom line is this is not simulation and more the merrier. History can be overlooked. Ships or tanks do not behave differ any way in this regard. People do not care.

 

Edit: It is extremely illogical to assume that with ships history would be radically more important to more people than with tanks.

[1MajorKoenig]

Hey guys, I think you are intentionally missing the point here.

 

Maybe you just don't care about the ships before WW2 so you are ok with the tiering and don't care about the OP.

 

Still the facts stand - and are relevant to some of us:

 

- the game starts technology wise pretty much with the dreadnought era. The dreadnought era is part of the game content anyway.

 

- it is a game for navy enthusiasts so please don't tell me "forget everything historical". It is what sets the scene and sparks the interest for many of us. If not it could very well be a game about star ships. It would be different. It is still a game but the historical component IS important.

 

- WG used how the USN BBs developed as a scale to calibrate the (WOT copy&paste) tiering system. Not considering that the USN was pretty insignificant in the early days of the 20s century. The shells were inadequate by design and they wouldn't have played any significant role in battles of these days.

 

- it was not clear for me ever that a fantasy ship would take priority over a real one. If that was clear to you you need to show me the source please. However in the German BB tree there was absolutely no need to design a fantasy / napkin boat on T4 (and to a lesser degree on T5). There are real ships for these tiers. The T4 ship - even carrying a real name - is pure fantasy like Roon. With the slight difference that there was no real design to fill the Roon spot.

 

That is simply enjoying. And as said, the Brits will have the same situation as well. Two of the most anticipated lines implemented in a far from ideal way.

[1MajorKoenig]

 

Edit: It is extremely illogical to assume that with ships history would be radically more important to more people than with tanks.

 

You can't assume that being equal for tanks and warships. Despite the fact that Warships' population is much smaller it was explained in one of the older Q&A that the player base in warships is older and is more of the "veteran" type. They were thinking of how to attract more younger players.

[Sigimundus]

Hey guys, I think you are intentionally missing the point here.

 

Maybe you just don't care about the ships before WW2 so you are ok with the tiering and don't care about the OP.

 

Still the facts stand - and are relevant to some of us:

 

- the game starts technology wise pretty much with the dreadnought era. The dreadnought era is part of the game content anyway.

 

- it is a game for navy enthusiasts so please don't tell me "forget everything historical". It is what sets the scene and sparks the interest for many of us. If not it could very well be a game about star ships. It would be different. It is still a game but the historical component IS important.

 

- WG used how the USN BBs developed as a scale to calibrate the (WOT copy&paste) tiering system. Not considering that the USN was pretty insignificant in the early days of the 20s century. The shells were inadequate by design and they wouldn't have played any significant role in battles of these days.

 

- it was not clear for me ever that a fantasy ship would take priority over a real one. If that was clear to you you need to show me the source please. However in the German BB tree there was absolutely no need to design a fantasy / napkin boat on T4 (and to a lesser degree on T5). There are real ships for these tiers. The T4 ship - even carrying a real name - is pure fantasy like Roon. With the slight difference that there was no real design to fill the Roon spot.

 

That is simply enjoying. And as said, the Brits will have the same situation as well. Two of the most anticipated lines implemented in a far from ideal way.

 

The concept "balance before history" was clear even from close beta test.