SN DDs Captain Skills

[Syrchalis]

I might be an expert on carriers, but DDs, especially russian ones, are still something I'm inexperienced with. My Captain is on his way to 14 points and so far the skill choice was pretty straight forward:

1 - Situation Awareness

2 - Last Stand

3 - Superintendent

4 - Demolition Expert

 

Now the question is, should I save up 5 points for Concealment Expert - given that RU DDs are spotted first in any case (even if I have CE and other DDs don't) I feel like the skill might only be useful for stealth firing, in which case I would probably need AFT too.

Alternatively I can get DE and AFT or DE and Survival Expert. I'm at the Kiev at the moment and for her the survival expert would be amazing. However, given the laser guns of SN DDs, I can see use in AFT too. I don't think DE is worth dropping, but what do you guys think? I'm actually quite happy here is a choice apparently.

[ghostbuster_]

if you want to use that captain on khaba, i would suggest to take DE and AFT. you will be shooting all the time so concealment expert wont be so usefull imo. besides you dont need to invisible fire with a khaba because with that speed and few awsd hax you wont be hit.  thats what i would do with russian DDs. but it would be better that you ask someone again, who is more experienced with them.

[GulvkluderGuld]

Up untill the Kiev and possibly including it, you can get by without Vigilance.

However, from the miserable trashkent onwards, torpedoes start to become the biggest threat due to high speed + slow rudder shift. Slowing down takes a lot of time and distance, and the ship goes so fast it is almost on top of the torps before you can react - without Vigilance.

 

I also believe most people run stealth + AFT builds on their Khabas, and I can tell you from my experience on tier 8 that getting CE on my Tashkent made a BIG difference (concealment  7,5 km instead of stock 10ish).

I consider both mandatory for my Tash. 

I'm currently about 60k off the udaloi and have paused my SN dds, since I focus on ranked. My build on a 15 point captain:

 

1 - Situation Awareness

2 - Last Stand

3 - Vigilance

4 - AFT

5 - CE

 

From what I've read, Demo expert isnt so much of a deal since most of Uda and Khabas damage comes from AP shells, but I cant attest that from personal experience.

I tried Demo expert on the tash and blyscawica (14 point captain ) - but I never missed it when I gave it up for CE.

it is more something I would run on US dds with their terrible fire chance, since they dont really benefit from AFT.

[Mayv]

AFT is definitely worth taking. AP seems to make up a good part of my damage so I dont use DE.

i find CE useful, allowing you to support friendly DDs from closer ranges and prevents Zaos from nearly out-spotting you.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

Well , my khaba have , DE + AFT , CE Not rly need , but ofc diff from u

 

[Syrchalis]

So noone is a fan of survival expert?

[GulvkluderGuld]

So noone is a fan of survival expert?

 

Maybe for the Kiev, the other SN dds have quite high HP pools already.

 

Trading SE for AFT in a CE build means you will need to get closer to your targets and potentially take more damage.

For my Tashkent, minimum safe distance from most CAs and BB are 12 km. Any closer and they will hit me consistently despite all the speed in the world.

 

[Basti542]

My Khaba captain (18 Points) got the following skills:

 

Basic Gunnery,

Last Stand,

Superintendent,

Demo, AFT, HP-Pool

 

You Should take Demo at Last...

[creamgravy]

Survivability Expert is only useful on a Khabarovsk brawler build. The others don't have enough armour and will melt very quickly, even with 22,800 HP Tashkent sinks after 20-25 HE hits from a US DD.

(Khab has a 50mm armour section which even stops 8" HE from doing damage!)

 

Here's my personal preference.

 

Kiev (Stock sniper build)

 

Tashkent to Khab (Generic DD with AFT)

 

[Syrchalis]

Would you say Last Stand is more important than Expert Marksman? I feel like Last Stand is needed much less on Russian DDs. The higher tiers have good turret traverse anyway, so there it might be the other way around.

 

The problem I have with the Kiev is that I can't take any hits at all. One AP salvo from a Mogami at 12km and I'm half dead. Dodging works only so much, because some people aim so bad, you actually run into their shells while trying to dodge.

 

Also AFT versus DE. Is the range worth that much?

[Basti542]

Last Stand is a must have. You have no Concealment. Speed is your life. So if you stops - you are dead.

AFT is the first 4. Skill you will ever take. The Guns are so amazing, you hit even cruisers at 14-15,6km range.

 

Some Players like the concealment build - i don´t use it on Udaloi and Khabarovsk (Tashkent it is a good build however). You are ALWAYS open if you fire your guns. In normal games i had 1000 Shots fired and 350-400 hits. In good games i had 1500 shots fired and 550-700 hits per game. Even in best case, Khabarovsk got down to 8 km Detection - Shima and Gearing got 1,5-2km better concealment. Not worth it in my opinion. You Need no Invisi fire. You take Speed and many (!) awsd-hacks as defense. You can look at my stats - it works. I got 110-130k dmg avg, on all 800 games in khaba i get nearly 95k avg. dmg (und much kills ^^).

 

@ creamgravy

torp reload? really? why should i take this? torp damage is Bonus dmg...

 

Basti542

[ghostbuster_]

Would you say Last Stand is more important than Expert Marksman? I feel like Last Stand is needed much less on Russian DDs. The higher tiers have good turret traverse anyway, so there it might be the other way around.

 

The problem I have with the Kiev is that I can't take any hits at all. One AP salvo from a Mogami at 12km and I'm half dead. Dodging works only so much, because some people aim so bad, you actually run into their shells while trying to dodge.

 

Also AFT versus DE. Is the range worth that much?

 

for russian DDs, yes definitelly.

[Syrchalis]

AFT is the first 4. Skill you will ever take. The Guns are so amazing, you hit even cruisers at 14-15,6km range.

 

So would you say AFT is must-take even on Kiev? I am not sure the range really would help much, but maybe I'm wrong. DE seems so valuable because you set so much fire with it. People here keep saying that you use a lot of AP, but aside from broadsiding cruisers, when exactly would you use AP over HE? And where would you aim with the AP to actually deal damage?

[Z_OnkelE]

So would you say AFT is must-take even on Kiev?

 

I would say yes. You will unlock the characteristic playstyle when you use that skill. The skills afterwards are debatable. Probably the majority likes AFT+DE, some go for SE and some go further to CE. From the Ognevoi onwards the turret traverse is actually acceptable (18 s, later 9 s for 180°) and you don't suffer from not taking EM - except you try real short range brawling, but I would advice against doing that in a Russian DD. Therefore you don't make a mistake if you take LS instead.

 

One comment on SE: apart from the Kiev all Russian DDs have the biggest HP compared to their counterparts of the same tier. Because it is a static value tier for tier and because of the gun boat approach they benefit the least of this skill compared to the other DDs (the opposite: IJN DDs).

[Mayv]

 

People here keep saying that you use a lot of AP, but aside from broadsiding cruisers, when exactly would you use AP over HE?

 

BBs that are broadside. After setting a fire on a ship I also switch to AP.

 

[Plaztma]

You need to use AFT on russian cruisers, with those guns its the only way to go. I used AFT and survival expert on kiev with good effect since you then can brawl a lot more at the caps. In my Khaba I use DE and AFT and skipped CE.

[GulvkluderGuld]

Would you say Last Stand is more important than Expert Marksman? I feel like Last Stand is needed much less on Russian DDs. The higher tiers have good turret traverse anyway, so there it might be the other way around.

 

The problem I have with the Kiev is that I can't take any hits at all. One AP salvo from a Mogami at 12km and I'm half dead. Dodging works only so much, because some people aim so bad, you actually run into their shells while trying to dodge.

 

Last Stand > Expert marksman for the grind at least. The Tashkent is made out of engines and every single hit it takes knocks the engine out. You lose the engine almost every game.

 

Your Kiev problem is mostly solved by taking AFT and fighting Mogamis and Atagos at longer than usual range (<12 km they CAN hit you if they can aim. From 13+ km not so much). 

Those two CAs are by far the most dangerous enemies, although I suspect SN Cruisers will command the same respect.

Dodging works by shifting course every few seconds, but never at max turn - only at half. The ship bleeds too much speed if you turn at more than half.

[creamgravy]

 

@ creamgravy

torp reload? really? why should i take this? torp damage is Bonus dmg...

 

The torpedoes from tier 8 are very good, with CE you can torp spam and don't need skills like expert marksman.

A general destroyer build gives a bit more flexibility over the one dimensional sniper build, although in high tier random battles your just going to spam at campers the entire game. 

[Basti542]

Of course, but torps are too slow - even at Tier 8 - 10 - and they are the opposite of the SN DDs playstyle. Range, Range, Range. You need to get Close for 8 or even 10km torps. The dmg you lost in the 2 min without firing guns too stealth torp is much too big. So yes, you can use it - but in 95% of the game even elite marksmen gives you more for your Money.

[creamgravy]

Expert Marksman reduces 180 degree turn time by 2 seconds for Udaloi and Khabarovsk, it's virtually nothing. (Maybe Incoming Fire Alert would be better for sniper builds?)

 

I know high tier game play is literally just spamming your weapons at max range but torpedoes give you a powerful tool when you need to cap or wipe out a high HP ship asap.

Tashkent can dump out 18 8km torps with a 1.1km surface detection in 60 seconds, glorious! 

[Syrchalis]

So I tried AFT and it helped a lot, scoring among the first three now pretty much every game. Kiev seems really crappy for capping, due to stealth (or lack thereof) and how fragile it is. But if you stay away from caps early, it becomes a really great boat for anything.

 

I will probably take DE next. Worst case I just retrain to CE when I get the next point after that, but I don't want to sit on 4 points without a bonus - I got enough doubloons anyway.

 

Is there any reason to play the Tashkent? I would skip it for the Udaloi. I heard the Udaloi is insanely good.

 

Also note: I really have fun in Kiev now - so I think the RN DD line is for me.

[Mayv]

 

Is there any reason to play the Tashkent? I would skip it for the Udaloi. I heard the Udaloi is insanely good.

 

The Udaloi is like the Kiev and the Khabarovsk is like the Tashkent.

[Z_OnkelE]

So I tried AFT and it helped a lot, scoring among the first three now pretty much every game. Kiev seems really crappy for capping, due to stealth (or lack thereof) and how fragile it is. But if you stay away from caps early, it becomes a really great boat for anything.

 

I will probably take DE next. Worst case I just retrain to CE when I get the next point after that, but I don't want to sit on 4 points without a bonus - I got enough doubloons anyway.

 

Is there any reason to play the Tashkent? I would skip it for the Udaloi. I heard the Udaloi is insanely good.

 

Also note: I really have fun in Kiev now - so I think the RN DD line is for me.

 

Oh yeah, defenitely not the best DD for capping . Regarding the Tashkent: I have a lot of fun on her, too. I did not expect that due to people complaining about her being too fragile and because there are a couple of much better DDs on that particular tier. For the Udaloi: my few test matches went really good and I am looking forward to finally unlocking her as well. She will be a keeper for me, I am sure.

[Syrchalis]

 

The Udaloi is like the Kiev and the Khabarovsk is like the Tashkent.

 

I don't quite understand what you mean. How are the two different? I mean, does their playstyle differ in any way from each other?

 

The Udaloi just seems so strong to me. It has incredibly good concealment (better than Kiev), has lots of HP, useable torpedos, 9sec turret traverse, very small turning circle compared to Tashkent and Kiev, is smaller than Tashkent. Only bad thing I see is that it's a tiny bit slower.

[Mayv]

 

I don't quite understand what you mean. How are the two different? I mean, does their playstyle differ in any way from each other?

 

The Udaloi just seems so strong to me. It has incredibly good concealment (better than Kiev), has lots of HP, useable torpedos, 9sec turret traverse, very small turning circle compared to Tashkent and Kiev, is smaller than Tashkent. Only bad thing I see is that it's a tiny bit slower.

 

It is the size of them. The Khabarovsk and Tashkent turn wider and slower than the Udaloi and Kiev. They are also larger targets. Being larger and less nimble means you are easier to hit. So you have to play at longer ranges and cant take the same risks as you can in a Kiev or Udaloi.