Carrier Commanders and tactical advice

[SkybuckFlying]

Beautifull link for all to read:

 

Carrier Strike Group in the real world ! ;):

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_strike_group

[66Schwifty]

 

Let me be really short and clear about this: If you and the team followed my commands and it led to a loss than you have the right to b@tch.

 

If you or the team didn't I have the right to b@tch.

 

Plain and simple.

 

let me be clear about you being clear. we (as in the team you abandoned) have the right to b!tch because your "plan" was so stupid we couldn't even consider it. i mean, you ordering our cruiser to stay with you, because you had a strike CV, and couldn't defend yourself? how utterly stupid is that? another thing - the majority of our force was closer to B cap, but since you were closer to the A cap you ordered us to sail there, because you weren't going to follow us, we were supposed to follow you. really? the rest of us have decided on some strategy, and went to do our job, and you sailed off to the sunset cursing and swearing at us. the worst thing is that the game i've just mentioned could have been a victory, if only we had a CV that would at least try to be a part of the team. unfortunately, we had you..

 

 

Don't agree with this, if from my experience I know their plan is going to 100% fail I drive off and let them rott, then they can die by themselfes, saves me lots of credits (hopefully they learn from this for the next time ! ;)) ! If their plan was any good to start with they would not have died within 3 minutes or something stupid like that. (Besides anybody or any team agreeing on a plan that does not involve the approval of the carrier commander is completely stupid, they will not have the time to adept and communicate with each other while they are fighting, it's plain stupid, they don't have the overview, the chance of something like that working is less than 5% or so). One extremely excellent example of this is "Noobs focussing completely on flags, totally negflecting the roll of CVs in this game and then getting completely blown away by enemy CV sometimes even in combination with destroyer torpedoes and I am supposed to go along with this suicide run ?! Think not ! LOL).

 

you are playing a team game. RBs are supposed to be a team mode. and yet, you act like you were playing some single-player game, where you dictate the conditions of battle. but if you play like that in a team-oriented game you are just a burden to everyone that has the misfortune to get you in their team. you don't accept that you could be wrong, or that anyone could have a better idea than your own, you assume that only your plans are going to work, and everyone else knows sh!t. and you are terribly wrong..

 

and, again, if you block most of the players you meet just because they dared to disagree with you how exactly are they supposed to follow your "orders"?

[General_Alexus]

Would be great if you could see the Karma Value of Players ingame. It is not XVM, but maby that could tell somebody if he can trust an Tactical Advise from anybody or not.

I have lots of time in my CVs to do taktikal stuff if needed, even at T10. Dont know what you CVs do the hole time, i set 4 Wasypoints over the Minimap and have 30-60 Sekonds between every Strike or Dogfight to look around.

But one Thing is true: i dont have time to do a Diskussion with someone. If People could see my 60+ Karma Value they would know that i am not that Stupid ( ofc it doesnt say that i am right in the specific Moment, everbody make Mistakes, but you know what i meen )

[SkybuckFlying]

Ordering (or asking) a cruiser to stay with me makes perfect sense. It even says so in the link about strike group in reality. It can also be great fun for me and for the cruiser player since winning is fun.

 

Also if your/their plan did not take into consideration my strike carrier, and they expect me to do things I can't do... like provide air cover via fighters than their plan is flawed from the start, obviously !

 

Since most ships are pretty straight forwards and only carrier is a bit of a surprise, especially the ranger, it makes sense for the ranger to set the strategy/tactics, not the team, since you don't even know my "mod".

 

It could be interesting to split the team somewhat as describe in the link. However leaving battleships without cruiser support makes me feel uneasy if there is only one cruiser in the game.

 

[Sea_viper]

@SkybuckFlying

Do you realise that there are many things you don't know at the start of the game? You don't know whether your cruisers have defensive AA or Hydro.You don't know what deck the enemy CV is using. And you want to give detailed orders in your specialise setup?

Let me tell you one thing, most player here knows what you WANT just by the fact that you are running a strike Ranger ie need AA, no combat air patrol , need DD to do most of the spotting.

Doesn't mean your teammates will always do what you want though, and it is COMPLETELY CORRECT!

You are asking the team to basically not contest cap at the start of the match, what kind of points lead you want to hand to the enemy? And you are trying to convince everyone that you can strike an AS Saipan? Who on the water would believe you, Even an Atlanta/Cleveland would try to support the dds instead of you in this situation ( provide AA and fire support). Your strike is not likely to get through, No matter how much your teammates help you!

 

In short: Why help a teammate who is likely to be absolutely useless?

 

[159Hunter]

In ranked, asking for a cruiser to stay back with the CV is the most stupid move you can make. The amount of firepower is already limited, so you need to maximise it when focus firing a target.

Those cruiser HE shells will wreck DDs, will put pressure on BBs and will annoy CAs. And in the current meta there aren't enough of CAs, cause DD/BB world ftw.

 

So, rather than pulling one back to defend your useless cv, make sure you bring a cv that can defend itself AND be useful for your team. And the most useful thing to do is:

- keep spotting enemy DDs

- keep enemy planes away from your DDs

- spot ships lobbing shells over islands

- keep spotting enemy DDs

- and when all of the above is done, try dealing some damage

[Kais_S012]

 

1. Wrong. The top ship is usually the most powerfull one. Care should be taken to defend it and make sure it survives. However it doesn't mean that it's the most experienced player on the team.

 

2. Tempting, but if everybody goes "a-wall" nothing will come from tactics and such teams are more likely to lose against a well organized and cooperating team ! Just a few days ago I gave my team/noobs advice in random battles and we won flawlessly multiple times. So tactics definetly work.

 

3. Some valid point here, however it can be very frustrating if they are making obvious mistakes. Especially in ranked battles where there are only 7 v 7 players. Plenty of players have felt this frustation by now.

 

4. Slightly valid point, slightly not valid. If it's obvious to me that the enemy carrier is going to strike me and if the setup of the game is in such a way that a cruiser on my team is probably going to get blown away anyway he might as well defend my carrier, not doing so is even more stupid. Cruisers are also very fast and can proceed to any part of the map within reasonable time, not defending the carrier on request is kinda stupid. However defending a battleship can be important as well. I do call out people on stupid mistakes, it's to prevent them from doing it again in the next match and to teach them. It's important that they learn and understand.

 

5. Part of this is the game's own fault, not showing experience of players. Having said that... what you wrote after this point I agree with, for carriers it's more save to have command because they are far away. The same goes for destroyer being in concealment, for destroyers it's a little bit more risky. For battleships and cruisers it's too risky... you don't want to be chatting while speedy torpedoes are "flying" at you ! ;) React a second to late and you toast or soon-to-be-toast ! LOL.

 

I have sometimes led team while being in destroyer, and I frequently do it after I am dead, as well as many others...

 

1) actually RIGHT! you claim to be the second coming of jesus when it comes to carrier operations yet FAIL to understand even the simplest of ship class terminology. heres a little lesson for your simple mind to try and comprehend "flat top" is a term used for carriers not for being top of the tiers in game. on the account of you know... being really flat?

and no being top tier does not make you automatically the most important person in the team and thus everyone should be obligated to defend you. it is up to YOU to make it worth the teams time to cover your sorry [edited]

 

2) that goes both ways. a infantile fool who will sticks his bottom lip out and throws the game because the rest of the team will not let him up his paper bicorner hat and play admiral because "that'll show 'em" has no right to critize other players when they dont follow his orders.

 

3) and again you fail to understand what was even said. your ego blinds you so much you think its your divine right to insult and belittle other player for not following your battle plans to the letter. GROW UP

 

4) Seriously? you claim to be aware of the flaws but you don't even recognize the biggest flaw with the strike setup? your reasoning fails completely when you expect your team to waste their game nursemaiding your worthless [edited].

no cruiser "might as well" defend you. they are not in the game to babysit you, they are here to shoot s**t up and have fun your teammates in game are allies of convenience nothing more. do you not grasp the concept of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"? The strike setup tactic you describe only works when you are sailing within a squadron with a FRIEND committed to covering you.

the blind cannot lead the blind. your over inflated sense of self importance shows just how pathetic you sound. A little light drubbing for a mistake in game is one thing, to think you have the right to lecture and berate other players when you yourself are nothing more than a failure yourself is another

 

5) I disagree. the amount of management required for carrier operations means any time they are d**king around in the chat instead of watching the battle is time better spent assisting the team spotting DDs and a harrasing the enemy fleet. ANYBODY with the capability to lead can be successful no matter how 'experienced' they are or what ship they are in as long as they can understand the minimap and 'M' key.

Experience means nothing as there is no negative aspect to losing in this game in anything other than ranked mode which at the end of the day anyone mature enough understands full well bragging rights mean nothing in this game. you do not lose ship experience in this game so anyone can fail with way up the tech tree. you yourself got to the USS Lexington after all just like I have managed to fail my way up to the Myoko.

 

your redundant logic of "'ecss vee emm' sez I iz top dog in this fleet so I iz da boss cuz mai statz sez I iz da best" is faltering and it seems you are too blind to notice you need to change your attitude to other players and how you play the game

 

[Takru]

 

1. Wrong. The top ship is usually the most powerfull one. Care should be taken to defend it and make sure it survives. However it doesn't mean that it's the most experienced player on the team.

 

Rrrriiiiight.... the T6 CV in a T8 match is the most powerful one.....

 

You heard it here first people!

[Salt_Maker]

 

You wanna through statistics at this fine. My carrier statistics have been super unicom for months by now !

 

I'll just leave this here.

 

 

[Dampfboot]

Honestly I am mostly too busy managing my planes to still provide commands in parallel....

[SkybuckFlying]

The number of games I have lost because of "cruiser noobs" is huge. See statistics, pensacola never reaches rank 1, cleveland isn't even in rank 1.

 

Here is a question for you:

 

What are battleships suppose to do once all cruiser are blown away ?! The battleships will be defenseless to enemy destroyers + fighters !

 

Without the AA cover from cruisers I cannot even help battleships because fighters might shoot me down !

 

Also bombing destroyers is tricky !

 

I have started to bomb destroyers just to get more XP and take some away from other destroyer players that will otherwise get lamely to top 1 spot and it also helps a bit gain adventage.

 

There was one game today which was totally abnoxious:

 

We had 2 full health battleships, 1 full health destroyer, 1 full health cruiser and 1 full health carrier !

 

Enemy only had 1 half health cruiser, one destroyer.

 

That was basically it the rest was destroyed.

 

While my bombers were flying back to my CV, cruiser leaves our battleships, next thing you know, both battleships destroyed by enemy destroyer.

 

Cruiser losses against half enemy cruiser and somehow our destroyer get wasted against enemy destroyed too, lack of guns.

 

Total noob cruiser ! Should have defended our battleships, no need for this guy to go try and kill half an enemy cruiser which he even couldn't do weirdly enough... firing stupid torpedoes at it etc.

 

Defending CV/taking air space can also be done in following ways:

 

1. Place cruiser behind islands for cover against BB.

 

2. Place cruiser between carrier and enemy planes, this will force carrier to fly around it and might make enemy carrier think otherwise.

 

Watch the armada video from developers, in that video it is adviced for cruisers to stay back and clean up after others.

 

The answer is not "switch to fighters'.

 

The question is: "How do you play decently with cruiser with strike carrier on the team !".

 

Plenty of options available:

 

1. Defend air space behind islands to prevent enemy carrier from flying over it.

 

2. Place cruiser between cv and enemy cv, etc.

 

3. Defend CV by sitting next to it,

 

4. Attack enemy CV or flank it to force it to attack you.

 

Also the strike carrier has plenty of bomb power to make up for the loss of fire power.

 

Basically if the CV dies it's game over 98 out of 100 times:

 

No more torp spotting

Very little ship spotting.

Nobody to contend enemy CV will have a field day.

No more battleships and cv going bye bye !

No more destroyer bombing

No more enemy ship fleeing bombing

Say hello to battleships chasing cruisers all over the map.

Say hello to cruisers chasing destroyers all over the map and driving into the torps ! HAHA !

Destroyers always spotted by fighters if enemy CV has half a brain.

The list goes on and on ! ;)

 

 

If it survives the opposite will happen.

 

You basically have very little options here... except 4.

 

There was only one ranked game today where team managed to win after I died fast... it was a 3 battleship game, they won with 1 battleship and 1 york 2 flags in possession and vs enemy japanese carrier.

York was almost dead... thing that saved them here was points, tactically they were about to be DEAD. Had colorado on enemy team blown away york, perhaps enemies might have even won, though BB was still full health... an arizona I think it was or warsprite... yeah probably warsprite... maybe better AA it has.

 

 

Strike setup a fail ? Are you kidding me ? I can keep a Saipan busy with shooting down my planes for the entire game ! And meanwhile his team will have ZERO SPOTTING VISIBILITY !

 

And if he doesn't shoot me down his destroyers are BYE BYE.

 

BOMBERS are A WIN WIN SITUATION... Keeps fighters busy... AND can bomb destroyers !

 

BYE BYE SPOTTING RANGE ! For enemy !

 

Tell me again how enemy is going to win with ZERO VISIBILITY on their side ! LOL.

 

Only if my team sucks bad, will we loose.

 

Also any enemy CV player that thinks he can "automate" his fighters, will quickly find his fighters ABOVE MY TEAMMATE CRUISERS ! if the damn bastards didn't die ! In case you thought this was against SAIPAN.. wrong you too stupid to understand <- this is anti japanese CV tactic. Try commanding 6 squads will my 4 bombers are driving you mad all over the place ! ;) Forget about it ! LOL ;)

 

I have seen japanese CV players completely strife away my planes and they still lost... either I sunk them... or they were too busy with strafing my planes that their bombing sucked. It was an air supremacy player even... kinda funny. He did well, I adjusted my tactic quickly and informed my team.... that helped for the next games.

 

Though there were also some losses, seems like some got scared and some didn't listen and gave up "air space".

 

Holding off ships and fighters from the strike carrier is pretty much everbody's main roll in such a game.... except maybe destroyers.

 

However they are even better off fighting together so enemy is confused what "spotted" actually means.

[159Hunter]

.....

 

I have started to bomb destroyers just to get more XP and take some away from other destroyer players that will otherwise get lamely to top 1 spot and it also helps a bit gain adventage.

 

......

 

While my bombers were flying back to my CV, cruiser leaves our battleships, next thing you know, both battleships destroyed by enemy destroyer.

 

Cruiser losses against half enemy cruiser and somehow our destroyer get wasted against enemy destroyed too, lack of guns.

 

Total noob cruiser ! Should have defended our battleships, no need for this guy to go try and kill half an enemy cruiser which he even couldn't do weirdly enough... firing stupid torpedoes at it etc.

 

......

 

Strike setup a fail ? Are you kidding me ? I can keep a Saipan busy with shooting down my planes for the entire game ! And meanwhile his team will have ZERO SPOTTING VISIBILITY !

 

And if he doesn't shoot me down his destroyers are BYE BYE.

 

BOMBERS are A WIN WIN SITUATION... Keeps fighters busy... AND can bomb destroyers !

 

BYE BYE SPOTTING RANGE ! For enemy !

 

Tell me again how enemy is going to win with ZERO VISIBILITY on their side ! LOL.

 

.....

 

LOL

 

1) The fact that you are in a CV thinking about farming XP just shows that you are a solo player and thus useless for your team in team battles.

2) See that? Those ships had no plane cover, planes that should be used as early torpedo warning, or better: spotting enemy destroyers ( cause that is something they do a lot better than cruisers ). Yet YOU send YOUR planes away, and because of that it's the OTHER guys fault that the BB died?

3) Seriously? He shoots down your planes = no damage for you AND no spotting for your team. Yet he can keep his empty fighters in the air the entire time cause nobody i gonna shoot them down = free spotting the entire game... All because the strike setup cannot negate enemy planes.

[Takru]

I have started to bomb destroyers just to get more XP and take some away from other destroyer players that will otherwise get lamely to top 1 spot and it also helps a bit gain adventage.

 

Breaking news everbody, sinking DDs in rankes gives you an advantage!

 

Without the AA cover from cruisers I cannot even help battleships because fighters might shoot me down !

 

Your usless strike Ranger has 4 attack squadrons, an enemy can only have up to 3 fighter squadrons. One of your attack squadrons should get through.

 

 

Defending CV/taking air space can also be done in following ways:

 

There is only one way for ranked games: bring fighters. Stop being selfish, start helping your team out. Cruisers don't bring defensive AA to a ranked battle usually, because CVs are a rare sight. Don't expect the team to tailor all their strategies around the vague possibility to have a CV on their team.

 

 

Destroyers always spotted by fighters if enemy CV has half a brain.

 

Something which you seem to lack by your own definition, not bringing fighters to the battle yourself.

 

Strike setup a fail ? Are you kidding me ? I can keep a Saipan busy with shooting down my planes for the entire game ! And meanwhile his team will have ZERO SPOTTING VISIBILITY !

 

Belive it or not, Saipan brings attack aircraft itself, invariably. If he has 2/2/0, he'll still be able to torp BBs/CAs relatively reliably, if he is 3/0/1, he'll just pray to RNGesus and nuke your Destroyers while you can do exactly nothing to protect your own teammates.

 

Only if my team sucks bad, will we loose.

 

 

Your season 4 stats so far:

 

For all your bragging about the strike power of your Ranger, you still have to life up to it. On the contrary, from these stats I'd rather conclude that your teams are losing not neccessarily because they're bad but because you are.

 

Holding off ships and fighters from the strike carrier is pretty much everbody's main roll in such a game.... except maybe destroyers.

 

 

Again, it's not. CVs are not a regular sight in ranked battles, how could you possibly expect other players to equip their ships exactly for that rather uncommon occurence? And even more, how can you expect 6 people to play to your bidding. If you were to put yourself in their shoes, you'd not do it either.

[Phlogistoned]

And even more, how can you expect 6 people to play to your bidding. If you were to put yourself in their shoes, you'd not do it either.

-- I'd say that last one is painfully obvious given the debate so far.

 

So. @Skybuck: Adapt and overcome. So far you seem to have tried everything except listening to people's advice. Perhaps Strike Ranger IS a bad choice?

[SkybuckFlying]

I have decided not to play fighters at all, tried it last few matches, it's very weak, doesn't give good credit and so forth.

 

At least I made 16 million credits this season. Did get depressed I guess because somebody abusive chat on my team, since then just losses lol... lost my drive I guess.

 

I now know why you destroyer players always nag about "wanting fighters" over your head, it's so you can grab all the XP and not get a lost star.

 

Last game when I played carrier for example I ask destroyers to smoke our fleet, none did... perhaps didn't ask right but still... result our battleship and cruiser blow away for nothing basically... also by enemy CV.

 

Stop being selfish, stop playing destroyer and play some more cruiser with AA LOL !

 

NO FIGHTEERS FOR YOU ! =D

 

(even if there were fighters, ranger only has 2 fighters so it's utter crap as far as I am concerned ! ;))

 

BTW you looking at the wrong stats, I am basically number 1 on the leaderboard for EU for Ranked Season 4 in Ranger ! HAHA ! =D

 

Here ya go, check the "ranked by catergories" yourself, to lazy to copy & paste 20 categories ! LOL.

 

http://shipcomrade.com/leaderboard.asp?Name=&A=1&B=5&G=1&S=4&R=12&C=26

 

Today there were much more carrier players ! ;)

 

[159Hunter]

I have decided not to play fighters at all, tried it last few matches, it's very weak, doesn't give good credit and so forth.

 

At least I made 16 million credits this season. Did get depressed I guess because somebody abusive chat on my team, since then just losses lol... lost my drive I guess.

 

I now know why you destroyer players always nag about "wanting fighters" over your head, it's so you can grab all the XP and not get a lost star.

 

Last game when I played carrier for example I ask destroyers to smoke our fleet, none did... perhaps didn't ask right but still... result our battleship and cruiser blow away for nothing basically... also by enemy CV.

 

Stop being selfish, stop playing destroyer and play some more cruiser with AA LOL !

 

NO FIGHTEERS FOR YOU ! =D

 

(even if there were fighters, ranger only has 2 fighters so it's utter crap as far as I am concerned ! ;))

 

BTW you looking at the wrong stats, I am basically number 1 on the leaderboard for EU for Ranked Season 4 in Ranger ! HAHA ! =D

 

Here ya go, check the "ranked by catergories" yourself, to lazy to copy & paste 20 categories ! LOL.

 

http://shipcomrade.com/leaderboard.asp?Name=&A=1&B=5&G=1&S=4&R=12&C=26

 

Today there were much more carrier players ! ;)

 

 

Look at bold part.

 

I'm proud of you, you played the most Ranger games this season yet you are still stuck at rank 9/8 after a wooping 300+ battles in Ranger... But I guess this is due to the other players on your side and not you?

[Takru]

I now know why you destroyer players always nag about "wanting fighters" over your head, it's so you can grab all the XP and not get a lost star.

 

They want fighters so they know where the enemy DDs are and can act accordingly. It helps winning battles, you know.... no, you don't know.

 

Stop being selfish

 

Says the same guy who wrote earlier in the same post:

 

I have decided not to play fighters at all

 

 

BTW you looking at the wrong stats, I am basically number 1 on the leaderboard for EU for Ranked Season 4 in Ranger ! HAHA ! =D

 

Only when it comes to numbers of games played in Ranger in ranked and other, non meaningful, categories. You consistently lose more games in Ranger than you win. After about 400 games. If this isn't giving you something to think about, nothing will. Your winrate is below 50%, which means that it is unlikely that you'll reach rank 1. Ever. Adapt and evolve. Strike Ranger is, by your own statistics, obviously not the way to go.

 

[ShinGetsu]

Ranger is the worst tier 7 CV anyway. In ranked Hiryu 3/1/2 or OP-Saipan owns the match, as they can spot, destroy planes and strike DDs.

 

I agree on one things tho : Fighter-setup are useless in tier 7 and below. It works on Saipan because it's OP (though a good 3/1/2 Hiryu will manage). It kinda works on Lexington and tier 9/10 because they still can strike reasonably well. But fighter setup cannot completely negate the enemy CV and doesn't even allows the CV to strike more than the one it's trying to block.

In Shoka some matches ago I was in the obvious 2/2/2 with a 1/1/1 Ranger, against a 3/0/1 Saipan and a 2/0/2 Lex. We won. I still could strike for around 60k damage. Fighter setup mostly destroys enemy fighters.

 

However believing that strike setup Ranger would works in ranked is either stupid or naive... 

[Takru]

However believing that strike setup Ranger would works in ranked is either stupid or naive... 

 

...or a boring forum troll.

[SkybuckFlying]

Meanwhile I have won matches against Saipan with strike ranger... it's quiet easy really. Saipan fighters run out of ammo real fast, they basically cannot stop your bombers...

 

So go ahead and bomb stuff... still gives you a good chance to do fire damage on destroyers, Saipan fighters won't stop that, unless they run out of ammo because of strafes.

 

However a carrier with run-out-ammo is vunerable to a strike on it's own carrier... highly dangerous for them ! Hihi...

 

Also why he's reloading more bombing potential ! ;)

[RUSSIANBlAS]

This guy is for real sadly, I've played a few Ranked games and he really does play as a Strike Ranger... He will try and Alpha strike the enemy CV.

 

Granted we've won every game he's been in but whether that's because of him is another matter!!

[Takru]

This guy is for real sadly, I've played a few Ranked games and he really does play as a Strike Ranger... He will try and Alpha strike the enemy CV.

 

Granted we've won every game he's been in but whether that's because of him is another matter!!

 

Judging by his stats, he needs to be carried. A lot.

[SkybuckFlying]

 

Judging by his stats, he needs to be carried. A lot.

 

Lol, says you, somebody with the worst CV stats I have ever seen ! Conclusion: you suck at reading stats ! HA-HA-HA-HA-HAHAHAHA !

[Takru]

 

Lol, says you, somebody with the worst CV stats I have ever seen ! Conclusion: you suck at reading stats ! HA-HA-HA-HA-HAHAHAHA !

 

Coming from you, this actually is a compliment. Because the only thing you can do is trolling. And even there you suck.

[159Hunter]

 

Lol, says you, somebody with the worst CV stats I have ever seen ! Conclusion: you suck at reading stats ! HA-HA-HA-HA-HAHAHAHA !

 

But at least he managed to get to rank 1 and he has the guts to try Essex and Midway. You for some reason fail to reach rank 1 and lack the courage to advance pastLexington.