Carrier Commanders and tactical advice

[SkybuckFlying]

What is your experience with carrier commanders in random and ranked battles ? See poll for questions and possible answers.

[66Schwifty]

my experience is meeting someone like you, who "shouts" idiotic commands all the time (with CAPS), insulting everyone for agreeing to a plan different than yours, and then sailing away from everyone and sinking without doing much for the team..

 

not a great experience at all..

[eliastion]

Fun fact. It doesn't really matter what classes of ships people play. Being in a carrier makes you no more of a team leader than being a DD or a BB.

If anything, it should actually be carriers who listen to their team (mostly DDs) because - especially in Ranked where teamplay is the most important - CV supporting DDs fighting enemy DDs for caps is one of the most important things the CV has to do AND it's still the DDs that take upon themselves the main part of that, CV being there to support them and, for example, try and scare enemy DDs off the cap before they cap friendly DDs. Not to mention protecting friendly DDs from enemy planes.

 

Communication is important and sure, CV can be the one that comes up with a plan just as well as other ships. But the only thing carrier commander commands is, well, the carrier. And any carrier commander who believes he's the commander for the whole team is more likely than not a liability undermining team's chances of victory.

[159Hunter]

Another topic brought to you by SkybuckFlying ©.

 

What on earth is the point of this useless topic?

[AgarwaenME]

If you can't spell advice, then maybe you shouldn't be giving it.

 

Also, troll thread.

[SkybuckFlying]

Fun fact. It doesn't really matter what classes of ships people play. Being in a carrier makes you no more of a team leader than being a DD or a BB.

If anything, it should actually be carriers who listen to their team (mostly DDs) because - especially in Ranked where teamplay is the most important - CV supporting DDs fighting enemy DDs for caps is one of the most important things the CV has to do AND it's still the DDs that take upon themselves the main part of that, CV being there to support them and, for example, try and scare enemy DDs off the cap before they cap friendly DDs. Not to mention protecting friendly DDs from enemy planes.

 

Communication is important and sure, CV can be the one that comes up with a plan just as well as other ships. But the only thing carrier commander commands is, well, the carrier. And any carrier commander who believes he's the commander for the whole team is more likely than not a liability undermining team's chances of victory.

 

It's an interesting tactic you describe, however consider this:

 

All the time that the carrier commander wastes on trying to scare off destroyers, the enemy cv might be blowing away your team's battleships, once that's completed with help from battleships, the battleships can illiminated remaining cruisers, once that happens enemy can retake all flags (take care of enemy DDs spotting them and have cruisers blow them away) and end result is you still loose big.

 

Thus this "rush" towards flags can backfire and quickly result in a big fat loss, have seen it happen many times by now. However I do like this "scaring off" tactic a little bit so thank you for that ! ;)

[SkybuckFlying]

If you can't spell advice, then maybe you shouldn't be giving it.

 

Also, troll thread.

 

Can be written with an c and and s ?

 

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/advise?s=t

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/advice?s=t

 

Sometimes english language is a bit funny ?! ;) =D

 

I guess the "c" version is the content and the "s" version is the act of doing so, so based on that assumption I will correct this typo to avoid any english persons from getting annoyed !

[eliastion]

 

It's an interesting tactic you describe, however consider this:

 

All the time that the carrier commander wastes on trying to scare off destroyers, the enemy cv might be blowing away your team's battleships, once that's completed with help from battleships, the battleships can illiminated remaining cruisers, once that happens enemy can retake all flags (take care of enemy DDs spotting them and have cruisers blow them away) and end result is you still loose big.

 

Thus this "rush" towards flags can backfire and quickly result in a big fat loss, have seen it happen many times by now. However I do like this "scaring off" tactic a little bit so thank you for that ! ;)

 

No. Scaring enemy DDs away from caps in the opening phase of the match literally has place before enemy planes can reach friendly BBs. Not to mention that the scaring works with one squad per cap unless the enemy CV tries to intercept you (as he should) and then it's two CVs committing their attention to fight for caps.

[AgarwaenME]

 

Can be written with an c and and s ?

 

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/advise?s=t

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/advice?s=t

 

Sometimes english language is a bit funny ?! ;) =D

 

I guess the "c" version is the content and the "s" version is the act of doing so, so based on that assumption I will correct this typo to avoid any english persons from getting annoyed !

 

Learn the difference between verbs and nouns.

 

But then not understanding things is your only skill in this game.

 

I could spend my time arguing points about the game with you, but you're below my standards for who I discuss such matters with.

[Spellfire40]

 

It's an interesting tactic you describe, however consider this:

 

All the time that the carrier commander wastes on trying to scare off destroyers, the enemy cv might be blowing away your team's battleships, once that's completed with help from battleships, the battleships can illiminated remaining cruisers, once that happens enemy can retake all flags (take care of enemy DDs spotting them and have cruisers blow them away) and end result is you still loose big.

 

Thus this "rush" towards flags can backfire and quickly result in a big fat loss, have seen it happen many times by now. However I do like this "scaring off" tactic a little bit so thank you for that ! ;)

 

​Fun fact at most Tirs BB have enogh AA to actually defend thenself agist all but the most concentrated strikes and there is allways the Chance that there are other ships near your Target AND the enemy CV to worry about. Why should the Player who allready does the most mutitasking decides what the Team has to do? especally when nobody knows the "leader". If you want to scream about comands do it in Team battles were People actually might listen to you if you have proven to actually be able to lead......not that i have much hope of that considering your post about defending your choise of playing a Strike ranger in Ranked .

[Mayv]

I love it when randoms think they are better than me and tell me how to play my ship.

 

Gives me something to laugh at most of the time.

[General_Alexus]

If i give an advise to my Team i am in a CV, every other ship is worseless because most of the time you have

A: something better to do

B: You are at the other side of the map and dont know anything about the Situation of your allyes

 

In a CV i think communication is realy important but it is != Commanding ect.

 

The only "Command" i often give to my Team is: "Stay Alive and buy me some time to kill the Enemy Team". Especially if the game is close and you have many dmged ships, the only thing that stops me in winning the game for my Team is, if my Team keeps dieing faster that my planes rearm.

 

Sometimes i ask my Team to ping the map if they just spamm "CV Spot DDs" because they were not spottet and i didnt saw the torps that indicate the Direktion ( eg i striked at the Moment the Torps sailed passed someone )

 

If a ship wants to take command it should be a CV because

A: he sees the hole map and has the best Informations to decide what is good for the Team ( i am not saying he knows it for sure, but he has the best Chance for a good call )

B: He has the most time for Taktikal stuff because he plays a RTS Game anyway. There are Long episodes where Planes Rearm or fly to an Attackposition so he has time to Write in the Chat.

 

In WoT Clanwars the Commander was usually an Artyplayer because of reason A.

[eliastion]

(...)

B: He has the most time for Taktikal stuff because he plays a RTS Game anyway. There are Long episodes where Planes Rearm or fly to an Attackposition so he has time to Write in the Chat.

(...)

 

In theory. In reality I hardly ever have ANY free time in a carrier. In fact it's the one class where you have the least amount of time to use chat.

And never mind writing there - I actually admit (with shame) that I've had some cases where I missed crucial info in chat while managing my planes - that's something that almost never happens to me in  any other class, even in the middle of an artillery duel!

CV doesn't have more time to spare. If anything, it has significantly less.

[Devi1]

I actually spend more time telling my team of my situation (fighters, torpedo, bombers status) and asking them to "soften" the enemy AA by spamming some HE.

[Krizmuz]

clicking from the sky

 

click

 

click

[AgarwaenME]

clicking from the sky

 

click

 

click

 

As opposed to

 

clicking on the sea

 

click

 

click

[JG4_sKylon]

Me clicking my mouse

 

click

 

click

 

 

Am i doing it wrong?

[SkybuckFlying]

 

​Fun fact at most Tirs BB have enogh AA to actually defend thenself agist all but the most concentrated strikes and there is allways the Chance that there are other ships near your Target AND the enemy CV to worry about. Why should the Player who allready does the most mutitasking decides what the Team has to do? especally when nobody knows the "leader". If you want to scream about comands do it in Team battles were People actually might listen to you if you have proven to actually be able to lead......not that i have much hope of that considering your post about defending your choise of playing a Strike ranger in Ranked .

 

(Your first part not really true in practice... most BBs have weak AA vs Ranger bombers, might be because of no skills spent in captain or upgrades, at least in ranked battles/tier 6/tier 7, I do sometimes see colorados kill planes but that is after the bombing already happened ! ;) Though I can also remember one nagato (I think it was, not 100% sure) that had some sort of defense... it's very rare though.)

 

Good point, carrier player, even if it's "just strike" carrier does have a lot of multi-tasking to do, I guess it's even worse on japanese CV.

 

This is why it is extremely important that players listen to carrier commander so he/she does not have to repeat itself.

 

Also tip for CV players: "if you loose possibility of manual bombing properly" press shift. Somehow chatting causes the shift button to fail... queueing commands will no longer work sometimes after chatting or something like that... or manual drop or something breaks... can't remember actually what breaks... probably the adjusting of the bomb pattern and such. Gonna report that bug one more time and then I will come back to this.

 

Anyway there are also times when the carrier commander has time to chat... it's a bit risky.. especially when switching between team and public chat since that causes the shift bug. I remember that now... and I have seen that bug a lot...

 

Anyway I am pretty sure most ship players dont view the map as much as a carrier player, so carrier player is still the best choice for overal tactical leadership.

 

I wish that was not the case but alas. It could be fun playing carrier more in 3D mode... it would require some rework of fighter/bomber control in that mode though manually flying that plane somewhat could be very cool... will post that in feedback too.

 

Also carrier player, especially strike carrier is very powerfulll... good reason to listen to it... as long as it's in the team and alive... chance of winning is high ! ;)

[SkybuckFlying]

I actually spend more time telling my team of my situation (fighters, torpedo, bombers status) and asking them to "soften" the enemy AA by spamming some HE.

 

I understand that last part, I don't understand the first part (plane status ? huh ?). What do you tell them ? Can you give an example ?

 

Also why would that information be usefull to them or you ?

 

(Also I as guessing you don't play ranger then because it's planes are strong enough usually... at least currently in ranked... they can get to the enemy ships quite well... at least I have health upgrade and such ;))

 

So my guess is you play the weaker japanese cv planes ? Or very maybe saipan ?! HE to soften AA Hmmmm

 

[SkybuckFlying]

I love it when randoms think they are better than me and tell me how to play my ship.

 

Gives me something to laugh at most of the time.

 

What would you do in your destroyer with an enemy Saipan around with fighters everywhere and a Ranger Strike Carrier on your team ? ;)

[SkybuckFlying]

 

In theory. In reality I hardly ever have ANY free time in a carrier. In fact it's the one class where you have the least amount of time to use chat.

And never mind writing there - I actually admit (with shame) that I've had some cases where I missed crucial info in chat while managing my planes - that's something that almost never happens to me in  any other class, even in the middle of an artillery duel!

CV doesn't have more time to spare. If anything, it has significantly less.

 

I agree with this. Another reason for teammate to follow advice/orders from carrier, only if there is something that prevents him from following orders should he speak up. Carrier commander has little to no time to go into arguments.

 

Also sometimes orders might seem strange... but carrier commanders can think ahead and might want ships to position themselfes at certain places. It's a risk/it's a bet... but it can pay off.

 

Unfortunately many players don't want to take a bet and just play like 5 year old soccer kids... "go after the ball" whereever it is... never mind being in a better position ! LOL.

[AgarwaenME]

 

What would you do in your destroyer with an enemy Saipan around with fighters everywhere and a Ranger Strike Carrier on your team ? ;)

 

lose

 

because that's what happens when people with inflated egos brings a wholly unsuited ship setup to ranked

[SkybuckFlying]

 

lose

 

because that's what happens when people with inflated egos brings a wholly unsuited ship setup to ranked

 

Don't agree with this at all.

 

Here's why:

 

Mod 3: Perhaps this should be called Mod F for fighters.

1. Japanese CV can "lock" my fighters with his fighters easily he even has 1 fighter to spare in case he has 3. Meanwhile he could snipe my cv with his bombers. Thus even with mod 2 two fighters two bombers it's weak sauce.

Mod 1: Perhaps this should be called Mod B for balanced.

2. Do I really need to explain why mod 1 is even worse ?! Wow...

 

Thus mod 3 is the way to go as far as I am concerned.  Mod T this could be called for Strike Team. or Mod S.

 

Also the japanese CV has so many reserves it's crazy... you could be strafing the entire game and still not make him run out of planes ?!

 

But the time he ran out of planes the game is over and you still didn't do jack squat against the enemy team, except shoot down some planes... it will keep you so busy... ABSOLUTELY 6 enemy japanese squads to take down WILL KEEP YOU BUSY AS HELL. This means you will have NO TIME to give your team tactical advice.

 

It's completely B.S.

 

Instead be the wise guy and take a sniper carrier like me and snipe the fokker... much less trouble... once he is dead... it's basically game over for the enemy team... assuming your teammates are not complete idiots.

 

At least this gives a good victory chance against japanese CV... otherwise if you can't sink it, it will be game over for your team...

 

However saipan is a problem. The impatience with teammates is also part of that problem. I could sit in my ranger for quite a long time and navigate it and shoot down his fighters slowly... bit by bit.. or force him to come to me... most players will not appreciate this and it's annoying...  At least his fighters not in your destroyer face.

 

So again this is kind of a win situation for the ranger... keeping enemy fighters busy... so you in destroyer don't suffer... do you think they appreciate it ?! Hell no ?! Destroyers have little chance against Saipan anyway since it's massive bomber doesn't even go "wide" when it drops... it basically has "perfect bomb drop"... not guess how many players actually know this ?! ;)

 

But for the fun it let's examine mods again:

 

Ranger Mod 3/F vs Saipan:

 

Does have some chance to win the fighter duel... but not by much I think... since Saipan can have 3 fighters and you only 2... some strafing might work... That leaves 2x6 bombers available for you to do some damage ?! However his bomber has the same capacity or even more in a way... if air supremacy... 9... still less... but the not widening will make it function probably better it can even take on cruiser...  Even if it's not better..

 

Mod 3 has some reserves... however little help against battleships and stuff... battleships can sit comfortable at flags and there will be nothing you can do about it...

 

Ranger mod 1 has very little reserves... so it's basically junk... you'll run out of planes pretty fast... by counter attack of enemies or mistakes.

 

Once the only fighter is destroyed/runs out the rest will probably become pretty fat junk... since you completely out numbered in the sky... total junk most of the time.

 

Which leaves mod 3:

 

Some fighting capability against Saipan when he is distracted, annoyed, busy, a fok up, sneaky etc. And you can defend yourself against other stuff.

 

Also the number of times an enemy destroyer will sneak up to your CV is pretty high... even with strike team it can be very difficult to take them out. With anything else but Mod 3 you be royally SCREWED LOL.

 

Last but not least:

 

Ranger vs Ranger.

 

Since ranger can have somewhat better AA on it's ship it can get tricky against a skilled fighter user... but only with Mod 1 because you have to be carefull that he doesn't counter snipe you with his torpedo bomber and bomb.

 

The rest is crap... flying around his two fighters is pretty easy... his two bombers not much of a threat... One or two good strikes and he is still dead.

 

After which the enemy fleet gets bombed to pieces by mod 3 ranger.

 

And finally:

 

Fact of the matter is:

 

I don't need air defense that bad. Most players I meet in Ranked cannot strike/sink me properly. I can sink them better. It is you the destroyer players which get annoyed, that's your problem not mine.

 

I know this is a team game, but I also know helping others will be at my expense, I will have none of that... you want air defense you get it yourself ! ;)

 

There is also no better air defense than a sunken enemy CV ! ;)

 

So far I have met only one or two Saipan commanders which were very good at sinking my carrier ! ;)

 

The others simply fly around with fighters and do what fighters do

 

One last concern could be the following game:

 

7 v 7 game:

Strike ranger

Battleship

Battleship

Destroyer

Destroyer

Destroyer

Destroyer

 

vs

 

Saipan

Battleship

Battleship

Cruiser (or Destroyer)

Destroyer

Destroyer

Destroyer

 

Perhaps this can be considered an unfair game and match maker should avoid it ?! ;)

 

Personally I might think so... I can sink one or two destroyers with my bombers, sinking all 4 will become very difficult.

 

And adding to the difficulty is this becomes only possible after the Saipan is sunk, otherwise it will become virtually impossible.

 

Now consider this:

 

My team has a kiev or some other destroyer with "potent guns". The rest is garbage... mutuski, sims, hatshu, etc.

 

All Saipan carrier has to do is take out the "potent gun" destroyer and the rest of the destroyers are screwed... no more fire power for them.

 

They can forget about torping since Saipan fighters will spot those with ease...

 

Result is weak gunned destroyers get whiped out by stronger gunned destroyers.

 

Plus add to injury the massive bomber killing even more ! ;)

 

Basically if I fail to sink the enemy Saipan entire team is screwed ! ;) Which is kinda funny.

 

Even if I do sink the Saipan by that time it will still become very difficult to fight off the remaining destroyers, especially if the battleships suck at shooting those tiny little destroyers, which is kinda strange, cause I can do that just fine but I am used to playing destroyer and such and had some training with lead time against them. Perhaps this game needs some "lead time" training/simulator to help players figure it out better.

 

Then again... when destroyers coming direclty at you it's more a matter of vertical aiming and correct timing. Play some more destroyer for those battleships struggling with this.

 

The final question you should ask yourself is:

 

Should battles/games/match maker create setups/battles/matches were a single point of failure can decide the entire teams faith ???????? HEHE ! That a good one ! ;)

[AgarwaenME]

 

Don't agree with this at all.

 

 

Well that's because you have a bloated ego that doesn't allow you to realise how incredibly clueless you are.

[Spellfire40]

If you dont see an enemy plane over a cap shortly after the start of the game were would they be???.... mayhaps at the boarder of the map tring to snipe? Every CV that didt realize that at T7 didnt learned his leasons earlyer. also try that agist a Torpedo Saipan who might try the same but have ist TB nearly over you bedfore a Ranger has even his whole Setup in the air...... Saipan s 2 fighter will strafe the crap out of any strike ranger and its AA will mob up the rest if some survives.