German BBs+ tier 6 premium French BB Dunkerque stats in 0.5.9

[fnord_disc]

All ships get their turrets knocked out from two hits to the rear or side.

[principat121]

@Tyrendian89

How often do you saw a BB with still over 77% of its health (with one rep used) and who has lost all(!) of its turrets?

 

 

And I never saw or read anything about that the bots in the trainings room aim for turrets.

[Darth_Glorious]

All ships get their turrets knocked out from two hits to the rear or side.

 

Yeah, but other tier 10 BB turret has enough armour to make some bounces, GK turret doesn't have that luxury. If it get hit, it will get pen, even from the front

[fnord_disc]

@Tyrendian89

How often do you saw a BB with still over 77% of its health (with one rep used) and who has lost all(!) of its turrets?

 

 

And I never saw or read anything about that the bots in the trainings room aim for turrets.

 

You can play against another human 1v1 in the training room. They're not single player.

 

And turret destruction has nothing to do with ship HP. The turrets have their own HP pool which is so small any two BB penetration hits will destroy them instantly.

 

 Yeah, but other tier 10 BB have enough armour to make some bounces, GK doesn't have that luxury. If it get hit, it will get pen, even from the front

 

Maybe, but that picture proves nothing. Yamato has 600mm turret faces, but if you turn the side or rear, you'll get the same result as that retarded chink stuff there.

 

[SmartassNoob]

You guys are making it sound like a Wyoming, or a Myoko are gonna kill it. Obviously if some ships are better, other ships are worse. What's the big deal if this just happens to be worst tier 10 BB?

[Darth_Glorious]

 

Maybe, but that picture proves nothing. Yamato has 600mm turret faces, but if you turn the side or rear, you'll get the same result as that retarded chink stuff there.

 

 

Then wait to test it yourself and find out how easy to blow up GK turrets from the front...(not from side or rear).

[fnord_disc]

 

Then wait to test it yourself and find out how easy to blow up GK turrets from the front...(not from side or rear)

 

I'm not disputing you saying the fronts are weak and easily knocked out from there. I have the H class blueprints sitting around here and the turret faces are 385. Yamato has 650 and Montana has 572.

 

But turning the turrets to the side? Pls.

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

are those blue prints only for the H39 or for all of the h-class? Also the blue prints for most of em were nothing more than "what would we have to do to get xy"... and i dont doubt that alas the H41s plans would've gotten overhauled (alas in turret protection) after the US' entry to war...

 

WITH that thin turret armour it will most likely only be useful as ram ship as soon as enough player know that... it cant be used as a brawler because everything will make your turrets go kablooey... it cant go to range because of its dispersion and it doesnt have the range to weaken the enemy Tier X BBs before those can counterfire

[Tyrendian89]

 

Then wait to test it yourself and find out how easy to blow up GK turrets from the front...(not from side or rear).

 

I'm also not saying the general contention that she loses turrets a lot is wrong (or right) - I simply don't have any data to make such a claim. I'm saying that picture is pure bs and staged scaremongering, and I do have data to make such a claim (as laid out in my post).

[fnord_disc]

are those blue prints only for the H39 or for all of the h-class? Also the blue prints for most of em were nothing more than "what would we have to do to get xy"... and i dont doubt that alas the H41s plans would've gotten overhauled (alas in turret protection) after the US' entry to war...

 

WITH that thin turret armour it will most likely only be useful as ram ship as soon as enough player know that... it cant be used as a brawler because everything will make your turrets go kablooey... it cant go to range because of its dispersion and it doesnt have the range to weaken the enemy Tier X BBs before those can counterfire

 

H41 has the same turrets as H39 and turret armor is a turret design aspect. The 42cm guns on H41 were bored-out 40.6cm guns and the armor on them is also the same. I don't have the 48cm or 51cm gun turrets and I doubt there are designs for them.

 

Of course, who knows what those Russian triples actually have. I only have the twins from T9/H39 and they're 385.

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

 

H41 has the same turrets as H39 and turret armor is a turret design aspect. The 42cm guns on H41 were bored-out 40.6cm guns and the armor on them is also the same. I don't have the 48cm or 51cm gun turrets and I doubt there are designs for them.

 

Of course, who knows what those Russian triples actually have. I only have the twins from T9 and they're 385.

 

i think you know what i mean... the turret armour on those designs was based on expectations of French, British and maybe Russians enemies but not the US Navy...

 

but really... who at WG thought that this is a good idea: making a brawler with turrets that get destroyed by any BB it faces... FRONTALLY... it's as if i'd make a ship a long range sniper but give it a dispersion of 400m, sigma 0.1 and 17km range...

[Darth_Glorious]

Remember KV-220 ? GK has the same concept...

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

Remember KV-220 ? GK has the same concept...

 

nope... never played WoT much... i have below 10 games there and that only because in a Comuter games magacine there was a code for a prem tank... in that regrad i mostly was around at WGs competition... (the snail)

[Poster_2015]

 

2 hits for each turret. Even Tirptiz can lolpen those turrets.

That's why GK cannot fight in close range. It's better to stay at medium range and spam 406 mm HE to burn people to death..

If you want to use AP, the 420 mm is only option, it has good pen, but the slow reload time and the dispersion will make you crazy :v

 

So far in this game, the dispersion was never tied to the gun - just the ship/hull. Is it different in case of GK, or its just "random observation" after a few games. 

[Tyrendian89]

 

So far in this game, the dispersion was never tied to the gun - just the ship/hull. Is it different in case of GK, or its just "random observation" after a few games. 

 

actually, max dispersion is tied to nation/line (they all have one consistent equation each). Sigma is tied to I think gun (as in, may change with upgrades), but may be ship.

[fnord_disc]

 

actually, max dispersion is tied to nation/line (they all have one consistent equation each). Sigma is tied to I think gun (as in, may change with upgrades), but may be ship.

 

Sigma is tied to specific gun and hull upgrades. Colorado's sigma changes with the hull upgrade and Fuso/Kongo have different sigmas even with the exact same guns.

[Trainspite]

Preliminary Chinese tech tree :

Tier 1 : Nanshang gunboat, 3  x 120 mm gun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_gunboat_Uji_(1940)

 

Tier 2 : Hai Yung cruiser, 3 x 152 mm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cruiser_Hai_Yung

 

Tier 3 : Hai Chi cruiser, 2 x 203 mm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cruiser_Hai_Chi

 

Tier 4 : Ning Hai Cruiser, 6 x 140 mm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ning_Hai-class_cruiser

 

Tier 5 : Leander-class cruiser, 8 x 152 mm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leander-class_cruiser_(1931)

 

Tier 6 : Fushun destroyer (Anshan class), 4 x 130 mm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anshan-class_destroyer

 

Tier 7 : Tan Yang destroyer (Karego class), 6 x 127 mm (US guns)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_destroyer_Yukikaze_(1939)#ROCS_Tan_Yang

 

Tier 8 : Tribal-class destroyer, 8 x 120 mm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal-class_destroyer_(1936)

 

Tier 9 : Fen Yang destroyer (Akizuki class), 8 x 100 mm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_destroyer_Yoizuki

 

Tier 10 : Luda destroyer, 4 x 130 mm, 15-18 rpm, velo 950 m/s (early version without ASMs and SAMs)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_051_destroyer

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that this is not going to happen. Not like that anyway. 

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

from what i see for german Tier IX and X BBs... this vid suims it up

[SmartassNoob]

 

See how much damage it does at 2:35 and then look at 4:17

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

 

See how much damage it does at 2:35 and then look at 4:17

 

yeah... we know that video... but just because somebnody has an aweosme round in a ship it isnt good.. i bet some people had really awesome reounds in the Krasny Krim (possibly even as low tier...) would anybody claim  that this ship is worth its money?

[Darth_Glorious]

 

yeah... we know that video... but just because somebnody has an aweosme round in a ship it isnt good.. i bet some people had really awesome reounds in the Krasny Krim (possibly even as low tier...) would anybody claim  that this ship is worth its money?

 

If they don't buff the turret armour, I think that the clip showed you the best way to play this abomination : burn people to death with 406 mm HE shells at long/medium range because 406 mm AP shells suck until when you get to close range.

GKs with 420 mm AP are  good at medium range but get rekt easily by other GKs spamming 406 mm HE, so why bother?

[fnord_disc]

The 1/4 cal rule for the HE penetration is incredibly powerful and perhaps people will understand why, in time, even if I would waste my time explaining it.

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

 

If they don't buff the turret armour, I think that the clip showed you the best way to play this abomination : burn people to death with 406 mm HE shells at long/medium range because 406 mm AP shells suck until when you get to close range.

GKs with 420 mm AP are  good at medium range but get rekt easily by other GKs spamming 406 mm HE, so why bother?

 

yeah... but really... this isnt something ot look forward... well it will be funny tgo have Zaos complain about HE spamming BBs... but... to quote Bud Spencer "damit ist der Gag auch schon weg"

[Todger_Fairmile]

 

yeah... but really... this isnt something ot look forward... well it will be funny tgo have Zaos complain about HE spamming BBs... but... to quote Bud Spencer "damit ist der Gag auch schon weg"

 

Like I've said before WG encourages he spamming. Which makes me wonder why they need detailed armour models for the RN before they put them in the game.

[KMS_Tirpitz]

 

That looks pretty balanced, but if German ships have bad citadels, someone else will pop up and explain the power of Germany's armor layout, of which the whole point was to not get hit in the citadel.

 

Besides, your accuracy balancing is less historical than the one we have now. You give the least accurate guns to the Japanese, but the Japanese had a lack of radar fire control, not inaccurate guns. In fact, it is very likely that the Japanese, not the Germans, had the most accurate guns in World War II, just as the game depicts it. Accuracy of guns is not the same as quality of fire control.

 

To this end, I quote from the after-action reports from the battle off Samar, 1944:

 

 

USS Franks was the main target of IJN Haruna.

 

 

USS Hailey was with USS Franks and observed the impacts.

 

 

USS Haggard describes the same impacts.

 

And finally I quote their commander, Admiral Sprague:

 

 

 

 

This also tells you something else that's very important. Having accurate guns doesn't matter historically. Maybe it does in World of Warships, but historically it was a disadvantage to have extremely small pattern. Both very big and very small patterns are bad.

 

To me it looks like you're trying to have your view of history implemented in the game, your vision of history, not how history was.

 

You've misunderstood what was said, what's being addressed is firing doctrine, not accuracy. Pretty much every battleship of the war was capable of delivering very tight groupings, however when in combat you would deliberately shoot wide groups in ladders in order to achieve a straddle sooner and then more quickly zero in on the target. The Japanese quite simply had a poor firing doctrine when it came to ensuring early straddles and zero'ing in on their target, i.e. packing their groups too tightly before having a precise bearing & range, and as a result all too often never got an accurate solution on their target. Infact just for comparison's sake I can tell you that the Scharnhorst & Gneisenau had a full salvo spread of a mere 80m in diameter at 28 km range, however had they fired such tight groupings when trying to zero in on a target in combat they likely wouldn't have hit much. So no Japanase guns were not inherently any more accurate than everyone elses, which would've been a bit strange as well considering their guns were quite conventional in design.

 

In short: No it's not just my personal view of history.