German BBs+ tier 6 premium French BB Dunkerque stats in 0.5.9

[Trainspite]

 

No reason to muddy things with feelings, numbers don't lie, either dispersion is high or it is low, same goes for the magical "sigma" stat which the Warspite enjoys so much success with.

 

Finally we play BBs to get enjoyable gunplay, not to shoot torpedoes or watch out secondaries auto attack. Hence why the Russian ships are so gun focused, it's the funnest part of the game and WG knows that perfectly well.

 

Feelings? Though I can't say much, it is not all as you fear. Numbers can be decieving, the only way you will truly know if the ships are crap is if you play them yourself. 

 

Warspite is ridiculously troll with her accuracy. As simga is only horizontal despersion IIRC. One minute you can be landing accurate hits, and the next you can't hit a thing. The accuracy is a fickle thing, and is not reliant on one number. 

 

Fun depends from what you see in the game. For a BB it is big numbers for the most part. Though being tanky and being able to bully others is another part. Destroyers can get satisfaction from a devastating topredo strike, and carriers from a well co-ordinated attack, and their huge influence on a game. Different people see different things, and you can't speak for all of them. Gunfire is fairly fun and simple, but is not the sole source of 'fun'. It is never as simple as you think.

[Unintentional_submarine]

 

 

As one can see, they replaced all country names with "factions" based off of the first letter of their Chinese romanization/pinyin.

 

M-Faction = Mei Guo = America

R- Faction = Ri Ben = Japan

Y -Faction = Yin Guo = England

S - Faction = Su lian = Russia

B - Faction = Buo Lan = Poland

C- Faction = China

 

Hmm... Those flags are honestly not that bad. I especially like the Polish flag. Warhorse with a Hussaria wing in it's mane. I half expected psychedelic flowers and geometric shapes. Though Japan is pretty crap. A chrysanthemum would have been perfect.

[KMS_Tirpitz]

 

Feelings? Though I can't say much, it is not all as you fear. Numbers can be decieving, the only way you will truly know if the ships are crap is if you play them yourself. 

 

Warspite is ridiculously troll with her accuracy. As simga is only horizontal despersion IIRC. One minute you can be landing accurate hits, and the next you can't hit a thing. The accuracy is a fickle thing, and is not reliant on one number. 

 

Fun depends from what you see in the game. For a BB it is big numbers for the most part. Though being tanky and being able to bully others is another part. Destroyers can get satisfaction from a devastating topredo strike, and carriers from a well co-ordinated attack, and their huge influence on a game. Different people see different things, and you can't speak for all of them. Gunfire is fairly fun and simple, but is not the sole source of 'fun'. It is never as simple as you think.

 

People play BB's to shoot & dish out hurt with those big guns, that's litterally what BBs are all about, i.e. making each salvo count in the hopes of those satisfying citadel hits. People don't play BBs in the hopes of getting shot to ribbons without being able to effectively respond as they watch most of their own salvoes land hopelessly all around the target despite careful aiming on their part - to 99% of people that's not fun at all.

 

The most disturbing part is how historical strengths are so misrepresented ingame as to become the complete reverse of reality however, esp. since the real ones would've lend for some much more interesting game balancing. Hence I've always said that either you try to respect the historical trends as much as possible or you simply even the playingfield in the core part of each class's gameplay, and for BB's that's the gunnery. Anything else really is a serious disservice to everyone out there with a love for history, not the least those who are just getting into it.

 

 

 

[Trainspite]

 

People play BB's to shoot & dish out hurt with those big guns, that's litterally what BBs are all about, i.e. making each salvo count in the hopes of those satisfying citadel hits. People don't play BBs in the hopes of getting shot to ribbons without being able to effectively respond as they watch most of their own salvoes land hopelessly all around the target despite careful aiming on their part - to 99% of people that's not fun at all.

 

The most disturbing part is how historical strengths are so misrepresented ingame as to become the complete reverse of reality however, esp. since the real ones would've lend for some much more interesting game balancing. Hence I've always said that either you try to respect the historical trends as much as possible or you simply even the playingfield in the core part of each class's gameplay, and for BB's that's the gunnery. Anything else really is a serious disservice to everyone out there with a love for history, not the least those who are just getting into it.

 

 

 

 

You are not a spokesperson for all BB players. Yes, getting citadel hits is what they aim for, but aside from that people look for different things in a BB, so it does not completely revolve around the guns in a BB. Some people look for speed, some look for armour. Poor accuracy just means that German BBs have to be a bit closer, which is not bad for them, considering they basically have the best armour until tier 9, and decent secondaries. They would play similar to North Carolina, minus AA, but with better speed and armour I would imagine. And North Carolina isn't bad. There may be a few annoyances in the line, going by the stats seen, G.Kurfurst doesn't look too good, and Gneisenau could turn out like a tier 7 Myogi. Though I loved Myogi, so it depends in taste. Just hold your tongue before saying the German BBs will be crap. 

 

Accuracy is one of the factors WG have chosen to use as a complete balancing factor, where they don't use the historical parameters at all. Look at Kirov, Molotov, Omaha & Pensacola. Their guns, close together in their turrets, should have horrible dispersion. Yet they don't. Like rudder shift, WG has full control over those values, unlike say Displacement/HP, RoF & shell velocity, though they edit it where they feel right. (Hence Aoba's mega RoF buff, Colorado's HP). 

 

 

[Zogash85]

 

Accuracy is one of the factors WG have chosen to use as a complete balancing factor, where they don't use the historical parameters at all. Look at Kirov, Molotov, Omaha & Pensacola. Their guns, close together in their turrets, should have horrible dispersion. Yet they don't. Like rudder shift, WG has full control over those values, unlike say Displacement/HP, RoF & shell velocity, though they edit it where they feel right. (Hence Aoba's mega RoF buff, Colorado's HP). 

 

 

 

While doing that is WG's prerogative, it is a tad insulting (for lack of a better word) that ships that were historically famous for their accuracy (remember, Scharnhorst and Warspite both hit targets at record 24km range) get portrayed as glorified shotguns ingame. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth...     

 

Also, I'm calling it now and quote me later: Russian BBs, when they come out (can't be that long...), will have better accuracy than German BBs.

[Comrad_StaIin]

 

(remember, Scharnhorst and Warspite both hit targets at record 24km range) get portrayed as glorified shotguns ingame. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth...     

 

Warspite? a shotgun? omg you know nothing 

do you even have a Warspite?

[CountOfTuscany]

 

While doing that is WG's prerogative, it is a tad insulting (for lack of a better word) that ships that were historically famous for their accuracy (remember, Scharnhorst and Warspite both hit targets at record 24km range) get portrayed as glorified shotguns ingame. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth...     

 

Also, I'm calling it now and quote me later: Russian BBs, when they come out (can't be that long...), will have better accuracy than German BBs.

 

 

Where they famous for accuracy of for a lucky hit?

[Darth_Glorious]

Good news : Sharnhorst sigma value is buffed to 2.0 for all servers. Max dispersion at 19.9 km stays at 260 m though. The accuracy is improved.

Sharnhorst torpedo defense coefficient is 24%

 

http://bbs.ngacn.cc/read.php?tid=9567470&rand=644

[CountOfTuscany]

I guess it's necessary too, accuracy is quite important for the gusn which have already less punching power then the guns of her competitors.

[Carnivore81]

Good news : Sharnhorst sigma value is buffed to 2.0 for all servers. Max dispersion at 19.9 km stays at 260 m though. The accuracy is improved.

Sharnhorst torpedo defense coefficient is 24%

 

http://bbs.ngacn.cc/read.php?tid=9567470&rand=644

Only if the buff is older. New buff mean New testing. Means later Release 

[Darth_Glorious]

SH vs NC

 

 

[Carnivore81]

GK vs NC

 

 

Its sharnhorst vs NC?

[Darth_Glorious]

Its sharnhorst vs NC?

 

yes, fixed.

[fnord_disc]

 

People play BB's to shoot & dish out hurt with those big guns, that's litterally what BBs are all about, i.e. making each salvo count in the hopes of those satisfying citadel hits. People don't play BBs in the hopes of getting shot to ribbons without being able to effectively respond as they watch most of their own salvoes land hopelessly all around the target despite careful aiming on their part - to 99% of people that's not fun at all.

 

The most disturbing part is how historical strengths are so misrepresented ingame as to become the complete reverse of reality however, esp. since the real ones would've lend for some much more interesting game balancing. Hence I've always said that either you try to respect the historical trends as much as possible or you simply even the playingfield in the core part of each class's gameplay, and for BB's that's the gunnery. Anything else really is a serious disservice to everyone out there with a love for history, not the least those who are just getting into it.

 

 

 

 

I play battleships and I don't have a problem with a ship based around armor, secondaries and speed. I would much rather have that than some boring 20km sniper ship.

 

So, speak for yourself.

[Darth_Glorious]

128 mm secondaries are very vulnerable to HE due to low armour.

150 mm secondaries are more resilient vs HE, but vulnerable to AP

[RUSSIANBlAS]

 

I play battleships and I don't have a problem with a ship based around armor, secondaries and speed. I would much rather have that than some boring 20km sniper ship.

 

So, speak for yourself.

 

The only sniper BB I have are the Amagi and arguably the Yam. Everything else needs 15km or even sub 10km to work. All the kids think landing a lucky cit at 20km means you should do it all the time...

[Comrad_StaIin]

 

The only sniper BB I have are the Amagi and arguably the Yam. Everything else needs 15km or even sub 10km to work. All the kids think landing a lucky cit at 20km means you should do it all the time...

 

reminds me of the Kongo/Fuso players....

[RUSSIANBlAS]

 

reminds me of the Kongo/Fuso players....

 

Kongo shouldn't be sniping. A Fuso "can" but still isn't great.

 

There is a difference between shooting at long range whilst you get closer and those who stand at the back at in effective range through the entire battle. Even the "sniper" BB should get closer at some point.

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

Fuso sniping depends who you are up against. You shouldn't do it all the time, but if you are up against a Warspite, then certainly you should move away and snipe it, because a Warspite will rip a Fuso apart if you are not careful. But as always, its situational and not mandatory.

[fnord_disc]

Kongo is a much better sniper than Fuso...........................

 

Fuso is such a misunderstood ship, it's painful.

[x_Hasso_von_Manteuffel_x]

Just a view things ... the Großer Kurfürst ... well played Wargaming. Nice to sea how open you shows that you try to muck the Germans up ...

 

Seriosly, a 305 metres long ship who have a displacement from ~ 80000 tons (after Wargaming stats) and then just 88000HP? 9200 HP less then the Yamato? The most worse joke i ever have seen ...

 

 

Edit:

 

Simple math ... Yamato = 72809 tons = 97200 HP ... Großer Kurfürst = 80058 tons = x

x = 97200 / 72809 * 80058 = 106877,4 ~ 106900 HP !!!

..............................................................................................................................

Next point, the gun range ... seriosly, why should guns with the bigger maximal shooting range and at least equal good if not better range finders have less firing range then the Bismarck? Where is there the logic?

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_15-52_skc34.php

 

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_16-52_skc34.htm

 

38cm SK C/34 L/52 = 36520 metres max range = 21,2 / 21,4km ingame (Bismarck/Tirpitz)
40,6cm C/34 L/52 = 36800 metres max range

 

36520 |21,2  to 36800 | x ... 21,2 / 36520 * 36800 = 21,36
36520 | 21,4 to 36800 | x ... 21,4 / 36520 * 36800 = 21,56

--> 40,6cm C/34 L/52 = 21,4 to 21,6km ingame !!!

 

[Darth_Glorious]

Max dispersion of German BBs :

 

Nassau :

156 m at 9,2 km

165 m at 10,1 km

 

Konig Albert :

172 m at 10,8 km

 

Kaiser :

196 m at 13,3 km

209 m at 14,6 km

 

Konig :

208 m at 14,5 km

222 m at 16 km

 

Bayern :

214 m at 15,1 km

223 m at 16,1 km

229 m at 16,6 km

239 m at 17,7 km

 

Gneisenau :

240 m at 17,5 km

257 m at 19,5 km

 

Sharnhorst

260 m at 19,9 km

 

Bismarck :

254 m at 19,3 km

273 m at 21,2 km

 

Tirpitz : (Tirpitz shell dispersion pattern was silent buffed to be the same as Bismarck/Gneisenau)

276 m at 21,4 km

 

Friedrich der GloBe

247 m at 18,5 km

265 m at 20,3 km

 

GloBer Kurfurst

267 m at 20,6 km

[KubusSc7]

Just a view things ... the Großer Kurfürst ... well played Wargaming. Nice to sea how open you shows that you try to muck the Germans up ...

 

Seriosly, a 305 metres long ship who have a displacement from ~ 80000 tons (after Wargaming stats) and then just 88000HP? 9200 HP less then the Yamato? The most worse joke i ever have seen ...

 

 

It's even worse. That's not 305 metres. Try 330 of the H43. Doesnt matter what WG said the hull is supposed to be...look at the length. That's not 40m longer than Yamato...that's waaayyy longer. SO at least it's the H43 which was supposed to have 480mm guns...bigger than Yamatos. And Wg puts tiny H39/H41 guns on it...and less HP even than Yamato or Montana...it doesnt make ANY sense. It is to buff carriers and DDs, so they can feats on this ship. >.>

 

For me the line will end at Tier 9 where the only halfway true german BB giant lies in that H39/H41 hybrid.

[Comrad_StaIin]

Bayern :

214 m at 15,1 km

223 m at 16,1 km

229 m at 16,6 km

239 m at 17,7 km

why does the Bayern have so many different ranges?

 

also I like buffs to my Tirpitz

[x_Hasso_von_Manteuffel_x]

 

 

It's even worse. That's not 305 metres. Try 330 of the H43. Doesnt matter what WG said the hull is supposed to be...look at the length. That's not 40m longer than Yamato...that's waaayyy longer. SO at least it's the H43 which was supposed to have 480mm guns...bigger than Yamatos. And Wg puts tiny H39/H41 guns on it...and less HP even than Yamato or Montana...it doesnt make ANY sense. It is to buff carriers and DDs, so they can feats on this ship. >.>

 

For me the line will end at Tier 9 where the only halfway true german BB giant lies in that H39/H41 hybrid.

 

From time to time i have the feeling that Wargaming scale the Yamato smaler in compare to the other ships ... that the Großer Kurfürst is 305 metres long based on the folowing pic who shows the Großer Kurfürst directly side by side withe a Norh Carolina (in real ~ 222 metres)

 

I measured the folowing: North Carolina ~ 10,5cm at the pic in original size and Großer Kurfürst ~ 14,5cm at the pic in original size

 

222 | 10,5 = x | 14,5 ... 222 / 10,5 * 14,5 = 306,57 ~ 305 metres

 

 

But i note at this moment that the pic name say Iowa ... hmmm ... then i have to calculate new ...

 

Iowa ~ 270 metres ... 270 | 10,5 = x | 14,5 ... 222 / 10,5 * 14,5 = 372,86 ~ 373 metres