WTF with this german BB line? No pocket battleships and probably no historical Gneisenau/Scharnhorst?

[Mik1984]

They didn't give pocket battleships/ super heavy cruisers, OK, but what is distressing is that they slapped Gneisenau to tier 7, which indicates that they will slap on it the ahistorical, however planned on paper upgrade of its turrets from  3x3x11 inch to 3x2x15 inch. Which means you will not get to play the historical ship in the game, or you will get to play it as a stock unupgraded and uncompetitive version.

I think the only reason why the slapped the ship into 7th tier is that they are planning to include the 15 inch turret upgrade into the research tree, because I don't see 11 inch cannons being competitive at 7th tier - even if these are german cannons with better penetration, they will at best penetrate as if they were 12 inch cannons. This means you will have to switch to HE against anything that is well angled - and I predict german HE is going to be weak, which makes this 11 inch cannon even less viable.

So either way, it will probably be either an extremely uncompetitive ship on its tier, or they will slap on the ahistorical 15 inch turret upgrade. Well the last chance might be if they give the ship cruiser like maneuverability enabling the player to play the ship as a quasi cruiser, because it certainly will not be a match for other tier 7 bbs.

[deadly_if_swallowed]

Pls chill. Wait and see. No point in getting angry at ahistorical setups at this stage. The tree has been announced but not released yet.

Main issue with ahistorical balancing will most certainly be the different ways of warfare in the Atlantic and Pacific.

[Ictogan]

The pocket battleships have no place in a BB tree as they aren't battleships but heavy cruisers.

 

It has been confirmed that Gneisenau will get the 380mm guns but the 280mm guns should also be viable due to their RoF.

[Takru]

You realize that there are other ships which can have different guns? So why not just wait and see before getting wound up like that without any reason whatsoever.

[LilJumpa]

Lol the amount of salt is immense just because WG released some names and minipics.

 

At least wait for the leaked data from the Supertestserver for crying out loud.

[Todger_Fairmile]

They didn't give pocket battleships/ super heavy cruisers, OK, but what is distressing is that they slapped Gneisenau to tier 7, which indicates that they will slap on it the ahistorical, however planned on paper upgrade of its turrets from  3x3x11 inch to 3x2x15 inch. Which means you will not get to play the historical ship in the game, or you will get to play it as a stock unupgraded and uncompetitive version.

I think the only reason why the slapped the ship into 7th tier is that they are planning to include the 15 inch turret upgrade into the research tree, because I don't see 11 inch cannons being competitive at 7th tier - even if these are german cannons with better penetration, they will at best penetrate as if they were 12 inch cannons. This means you will have to switch to HE against anything that is well angled - and I predict german HE is going to be weak, which makes this 11 inch cannon even less viable.

So either way, it will probably be either an extremely uncompetitive ship on its tier, or they will slap on the ahistorical 15 inch turret upgrade. Well the last chance might be if they give the ship cruiser like maneuverability enabling the player to play the ship as a quasi cruiser, because it certainly will not be a match for other tier 7 bbs.

The upgrade to 15" is not a paper upgrade. They were designed so they could be upgraded at a future date (the 15' guns could not be ready in time). After the channel dash Gneisneau was damaged in an RAF raid and they decided to do the upgrade as part of the repair, along with a hull expansion to compensate for the extra weight from all the previous upgrades. As for Scharnhorst she will be a tier 7 premium ship, apparently as she was at North Cape.

[Mik1984]

It has been confirmed that Gneisenau will get the 380mm guns but the 280mm guns should also be viable due to their RoF.

 

I don't think they will, since the ship will not have the manouvrability to be played like a cruiser, as well as it will lack the cruiser consumables, so playing the ship as a quasi cruiser is not going to be a competitive option.

 

What is going to happen is that those are going to be like the junk stock guns you play until you get the upgrade, which mean de facto no historical Gneisenau in the game.

[Gojuadorai]

we dont need another one of those...

 

just stick  to ther other german BB  whine thread

[Mik1984]

I think we need as much German BB "whine threads" as possible. Preferably they should dominate the entire board.

[T0byJug]

I think we need as much German BB "whine threads" as possible. Preferably they should dominate the entire board.

 

If you are going to do it get your facts correct first.... There is Scharnhorst she is a prem.

Why should the 11 inch guns not be viable!  turret traverse 7.2 (faster than CA's at tier 7) 20 sec reload. For god sake you can Pen a Tier 7 BB with AP from 8 inch Guns so 11inch will be ok!

 

11inch guns will be supper CA/DD killers with that rate of fire and Turret traverse.   Gneisenau/Scharnhorst will be great main BB escorts! they can tank it with the rest Own smaller ships and still do Damage to BB's.

[Leif_GG_Persson]

If I hear anymore about this britbong fantasy called pocket battleships, my head is going to explode. There has never existed such a thing as pocket battleships. The Deutschland class were cruisers and nothing else. Also, there is no such thing as a german WW2 battlecruiser. The Scharnhorst and the Gneisenau were battleships. Thanks.

[Srle_Vigilante]

If your are going to talk about German BBs talk in CM. Thank you.

[Deamon93]

Already rage against Scharnhorst and Gneisenau performance even though the two aforemention haven't been tested yet? We won't be able to say anything but if you happen to see a Schanhorst in you game you'll see by yourself how she handles.

[Vulgarny]

They need to buff sigma on Scharnhorst becouse now it cant hit a barn

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

"Pocket Battleships" does he really want the Deutschland-class heavy cruiser in the BB line?

[lafeel]

Already rage against Scharnhorst and Gneisenau performance even though the two aforemention haven't been tested yet? We won't be able to say anything but if you happen to see a Schanhorst in you game you'll see by yourself how she handles.

 

Certainly I am very much interested in seeing just that. She seems to be quite the interesting ship

[Comrad_StaIin]

lol...pocket battleship..just lol

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

in regards of Scharnhorst: it seems that she will have 260m dispersion... nearly Tirpitz level... with 28cm guns...

[Carnivore81]

Depends on Max Range . So it could even Worse. 

 

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

Depends on Max Range . So it could even Worse. 

 

i THINK it was roughly 20km... i dont remember it right now

[Unintentional_submarine]

Just shy of 20km yes. But that dispersion was expected. It follows the progression of linear dispersion to Tirpitz, just like every other ship so far (can't compare Warspite yet though). So nothing new nor surprising there.

[LilJumpa]

 

i THINK it was roughly 20km... i dont remember it right now

Data of the Ship on the Client at the moment (can change....yes thats for you premature howlers )

 

http://wows-numbers.com/ship/3763287856,Scharnhorst/

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

so if i did that correctly it would have nearly 200m dispersion at 15km...

 

that makes me afraid for the Deutschland-class if they ever come... they have nearly the same guns... Scharns were longer and i think a bit stronger... so if they come as BBs they have thin armor and rather bad dispersion (unless they will ahve for some reason lower dispersion... i gotta admit i wished they would have some system behind this that makes sense instead of "assign number semi randomly) or if it comes as cruiser (which it should) they also would have bad dispersion... OR out of some reason just because they are named "Cruiser"  they suddenly have 100m less dispersion?

 

i simply wish for a better penetration system with more variables instead of only non pen overpen pen and cita and a more sophisticated dispersion system... that instead of going linear goes maybe in steps... so brawlers could be more accurate/as accurate as "long range" bbs at close ranges while e.g. Japanese BBs would get a Precision advantage from lets say 15km and further

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

The Deutschland & Scharnhorst guns may both of been 11", but they are quite different. Not just in barrel length, but also historical rate of fire. But, possibly more importantly, the actual 11" shell's used were very different. I myself, hadn't appreciated that point until recently.

[Gojuadorai]

so if i did that correctly it would have nearly 200m dispersion at 15km...

 

i would be verry intrested in the gun sigma  if it has 2 as the other "accurate " bbs it might be fine if it has any less it will be horribly bad