The CV Captains Cabin

[aidenthedestroyer]

5 hours ago, pra3y said:

More importantly and extremely unfortunately, Lexi can be spotted from the moon. Add on the fact that the ships it will face all have pretty long range as well it can make you a very nice shell magnet. So it is advisable to go with a concealment built (Essex isn't that bad but when you reach Midway, you get spotted from Mars instead of the Moon now). So you may also want to consider getting the hull upgrade earlier as it reduces your detectability by 1.8km, from 17.5km to 15.7km.

Ive put that into consideration and also have checked it out, I know Lexington and Midway can be seen from Lightyears away but I dont have enough points for CE just yet so Ill have to make do. But I never knew the Hull upgrade reduces detectability.... 

[pra3y]

5 hours ago, aidenthedestroyer said:

Ive put that into consideration and also have checked it out, I know Lexington and Midway can be seen from Lightyears away but I dont have enough points for CE just yet so Ill have to make do. But I never knew the Hull upgrade reduces detectability.... 

 

I had a look earlier and pretty sure it does. Hahaha but just in case you can double check on it. On some maps ( can't remember the name but the one with a diamond shaped layout capture points and red sky all the time) like Haven you get spotted almost immediately if you move forward when stock (happened to me that's why). Might be good to go full concealment right off the bat. That and fighters.

 

Edit:

 

Here you go:

[aidenthedestroyer]

10 hours ago, pra3y said:

 

I had a look earlier and pretty sure it does. Hahaha but just in case you can double check on it. On some maps ( can't remember the name but the one with a diamond shaped layout capture points and red sky all the time) like Haven you get spotted almost immediately if you move forward when stock (happened to me that's why). Might be good to go full concealment right off the bat. That and fighters.

 

Edit:

 

Here you go:

Thanks :P

I finally got her, sadly her Maiden Voyage might be 2-3 days from now since uhh Im in Debt (dunno well 130k I only have now Boy is Tier 8 expensive even on discount) But shes beautiful, especially with her F4Us I need to retrain the commander tho but hopefully one good battle shud do it.

Spoiler

 

[pra3y]

13 hours ago, aidenthedestroyer said:

Thanks :P

I finally got her, sadly her Maiden Voyage might be 2-3 days from now since uhh Im in Debt (dunno well 130k I only have now Boy is Tier 8 expensive even on discount) But shes beautiful, especially with her F4Us I need to retrain the commander tho but hopefully one good battle shud do it.

 

 

No problem. Have fun with it. Sometimes I miss that 3rd DB. You can literally one hit ko lightly armored CAs sometimes.

[LongJohn_]

 

Total 31 games with Shokaku. Below avg WR around 48, about 68k done damage, 24 plus planekills, mid 1700 PR. Still not convinced. Partially I blame the MM. It seems T8 CVs are pretty often thrown to T10 mish mash and that just isnt Shokaku cup of tea. Old strike Lex was quite at home there. Stack up 3x7 DBs with 1000 pounders and bomb the s#it out of some Monty. 

 

Earlier I though my better success with USN CVs was my experience. I started with IJN and so with USN I knew what I was doing. This has something to do with it but not nearly all. I been thinking maybe IJN CVs just dont match my playstyle as well as USN. Happens all the time with other ship classes so why not with CVs. 

 

With USN you can use more brute force doing your attacks. Planes are more rugged and squads are bigger. Of cource crossdropping DDs is always satisfying. Got two hits to one Khaba and other game Gearing with Shoka planes. But even this changes with the Midway which has best of both worlds...

 

[pra3y]

1 hour ago, LongJohn_ said:

 

Total 31 games with Shokaku. Below avg WR around 48, about 68k done damage, 24 plus planekills, mid 1700 PR. Still not convinced. Partially I blame the MM. It seems T8 CVs are pretty often thrown to T10 mish mash and that just isnt Shokaku cup of tea. Old strike Lex was quite at home there. Stack up 3x7 DBs with 1000 pounders and bomb the s#it out of some Monty. 

 

Earlier I though my better success with USN CVs was my experience. I started with IJN and so with USN I knew what I was doing. This has something to do with it but not nearly all. I been thinking maybe IJN CVs just dont match my playstyle as well as USN. Happens all the time with other ship classes so why not with CVs. 

 

With USN you can use more brute force doing your attacks. Planes are more rugged and squads are bigger. Of cource crossdropping DDs is always satisfying. Got two hits to one Khaba and other game Gearing with Shoka planes. But even this changes with the Midway which has best of both worlds...

 

 

Yeah with the old strike loadout of USN CVs you can literally almost brute force true everything.  IJN requires you to a bit more selective in dealing with targets, but were more all rounded overall.

[MadGunna]

On 26-12-2017 at 4:47 PM, El2aZeR said:

 

As it clearly shows in your stats. 

 

Outplaying AS was literally one of the easiest aspects of CV play regardless of how skilled the enemy was due to fundamental shortcomings of the setup you cannot overcome. It was worthless in every aspect in CV play, your striking power pretty much non-existent, your air control was bad (because you had no striking power to back it up. Yes, striking power helps in maintaining air control) and you had precisely zero scouting capability contrary to what others will want you to believe.

AS worked only against noobs, even then strike or even balanced was the far better choice since they too worked against noobs but had far more impact on a battle.

 

I once went up 1v2 (because my teammate was afk) against two AS Rangers in my Hiryu, both of which could strafe. To say that I crushed them is an understatement, they managed a combined tally of ~20 plane kills, my side ended up with over 70 if I remember correctly. And that was when strafing out didn't exist.

 

On 27-12-2017 at 8:49 AM, aidenthedestroyer said:

Now AS at Tier 5, well thats fine cause no actual opposition since strafes are not there, but any skilled player at tier 6+ can overtime, outplay you. AS Decks for Japanese CVs arent all that great, sure you get 3 fighters but thats only 5 per sqaud and you can easily get outplayed by any competetive CV captain. AS Decks, especially for the Americans arent worth it whatsoever. 1) Strike Damage only comes from RNG Related DBs. 2) The reload and refuel time for the Fighters from tier 6 onwards is rather long. imo, you leave your team at the hands of the enemy CV rather than in your hands, why? well the enemy CV player can just exhaust your fighters of all their Ammo and you will have to send them back for rearming. now the time it takes for Rearming for American fighters is around 42s and in that 42s, if its a Japanese CV, he could technically sink one of your ships. And to deal damage to the enemy, well you would have to pray that they used their Damage Con if your DBs are to be effective. Now American AS vs Japanese AS? Japanese always wins, Ill tell you why. Now sure you have 3x5 squads, if played right, you can take out the enemy CV planes rather efficiently. Now related to strike power? The Japanese excell at that. At tiers 6-8 youre sure to have at least 1 torpedo Squadron, so with that, there are unlimited posibilities for a kill and at tier 9 onwards I think you get 2 Torps. But the reason why no one uses AS on Japanese CVs is because of their well balanced loadouts which unlike the americans, had all the necessities of a Team player. Now the American CVs imo are better with these loadouts, 112 for Ranger and Lexi is far better than going 111 where you lack air control and damage if against a Japanese CV. The reason why people get so flustered when they face an AS deck is that they try to shoot down your fighters and beleive me, Ive gotten flustered like that SO MANY Times in Hiryuu. But vsan American AS deck, the only viable thing to do is exhaust their fighters of Ammo, the sooner they go back to the carrier, the better but thankfully, that wont be needed now since American CVs have finally got better loadouts. You probably outplayed others since they got flustered and their main thought that went through their head was SHOOT DOWN THOSE FIGHTERS. And tehy came to you with their aircraft and blah blah blah you know what happens. 

I don't use strafes willy nilly, manage ammo, and return one fighter to the ship while the other stays out? Pray tell, what exactly will a strike setup do against any other CV who has an even remotely competent captain? I've run CV's dry with AS. Conversely, I have never once been sniped. I agree that dive bombers are useless compared to torpedo bombers but consider the following: A burning wreck plummeting from the skies is even more so. How the hell people managed to accomplish anything with strike is amazing given what a fighter strafe does to bomber formations. Strike captains have certainly always regretted it versus me, the amount of Strike Rangers I've seen ragequit after the loss of their 2nd wave of TDB's is amusing. Strike just feels so weak versus anyone with two braincells to rub together. Sure, against noobs it's good, great even. However, that just means rolling the dice with the matchmaker, hoping you get some idiot rather than anyone with a modicum of sense.

 

The only other viable deck load was 1 1 1 and frankly I'd rather have 4 squads in the skies than 3. Even versus an AS Hiryu it's possible to hold one's own in an AS Ranger. Strike? Forget it. Pack your ball up and go home.

 

Anyway, enough blather about the past. Currently I'm almost to the Lexington. I have enough free exp to skip everything, but is there something that can be ground out stock? The hull? The fighters? The DB's? Is the AP bomb even worth the exp?

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Vor 16 Minuten, MadGunna sagte:

Currently I'm almost to the Lexington. I have enough free exp to skip everything, but is there something that can be ground out stock? The hull? The fighters? The DB's? Is the AP bomb even worth the exp?

You shouldn't use anything stock but you can leave out the AP bombers if you have the better HE bombers.

[Reniwn]

7 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

You shouldn't use anything stock but you can leave out the AP bombers if you have the better HE bombers.

Actually, AP bombs at T8 are hilariously good. You can try them at least with lexington.

[Cpt_Sagnik]

I am currently running the AP bomb on the Essex and they really do well in terms of Alpha damage. But I miss out the old USN CV tactic of Flood Repair Fire, especially with my Ranger And Lexi. The removal of the strike load out really depresses me at times.

.                 (Good old days in my strike Lady)

10 hours ago, Fubucky said:

Actually, AP bombs at T8 are hilariously good. You can try them at least with lexington.

And the AP bombs are like Nukes for German BBs. If RNGesus favors you, u will be able to sink a Bismarck in just one wave of AP dive bombing.
 

[MadGunna]

11 hours ago, Fubucky said:

Actually, AP bombs at T8 are hilariously good. You can try them at least with lexington.

How do they handle cruisers? I've heard hilarious results are possible? I've seen what they usually do to ships like Des Moines etc, but how do they handle the lower tier cruisers?

[aidenthedestroyer]

2 hours ago, Cpt_Sagnik said:

And the AP bombs are like Nukes for German BBs. If RNGesus favors you, u will be able to sink a Bismarck in just one wave of AP dive bombing.

Yet Im gonna go for HE Bombs cause I value DoT effects over one strike damage. Besides, I hear these dont do well against tier 10 ships?

[pra3y]

38 minutes ago, aidenthedestroyer said:

Yet Im gonna go for HE Bombs cause I value DoT effects over one strike damage. Besides, I hear these dont do well against tier 10 ships?

What who told you that? Those 1000 pd bombs are pretty scary crap when they hit stuff no matter tier or class. Its actually even better against tier 10 BBs since your target reticule can cover the entire ship. Literally nothing is safe from them. Once you try it it's like a drug, you'll get addicted to them  Ok well I did in any case .

 

Edit: Whoops I misread don't mind me. 

[LongJohn_]

 

I tied AP in Essex for a while. Way too inconsistent for my taste. Maybe they work out at T8, Lex and Enterprice, but against top tier BBs they dont work. Sure you can nuke German BBs but thats it. Its way too selective to targets. I have to be able to hit every ship in the battle. 

 

Sure aim circle means you hit well but they just dont do damage. Against ships like Montana or Yamato its almost useless. 3-5k damage in worst cases. You do more plus fires with HE. 

 

I've got struck by Lex AP bombers in my Colorado few times and it feels effective. With T9-10 CVs I'd stick with HE and doa. 

 

But of cource this is only my personal opinion. Try them out in different battles and decide yourself.

[Cpt_Sagnik]

52 minutes ago, LongJohn_ said:

 

I tied AP in Essex for a while. Way too inconsistent for my taste. Maybe they work out at T8, Lex and Enterprice, but against top tier BBs they dont work. Sure you can nuke German BBs but thats it. Its way too selective to targets. I have to be able to hit every ship in the battle.

 

Yes, thats a drawback. You will have to have a perfect MM to make ur AP bombs work. I currently run AP on the Essex just to trouble Germans, just german ships. We find a lot of them these days, a lot. But I don't have much experience on these bombs as I have just played 5-6 matches with those and 20 or so battles with the Essex in all.

But I consider HE bombs better in every possible way as they are consistent and can harass almost anyone, from DDs to CVs. The rake up good DoT.

3 hours ago, MadGunna said:

How do they handle cruisers? I've heard hilarious results are possible? I've seen what they usually do to ships like Des Moines etc, but how do they handle the lower tier cruisers?

First, you are going to have a tough time to set the dive-bombing as the speed of cruisers start increasing and breadth start decreasing.

that small reticle sure gives u a chance to hit all of ur payload but then again u might also miss them all.

Zao, Hindenburg are the prime targets when u have AP loaded, but again at T8-T9 it becomes heavily RNG based. U might be able to rip them off completely or just score some 5-6K damage. 

 

[El2aZeR]

36 minutes ago, Cpt_Sagnik said:

Zao, Hindenburg are the prime targets when u have AP loaded, but again at T8-T9 it becomes heavily RNG based. U might be able to rip them off completely or just score some 5-6K damage. 

 

Yeah, no.

Hindenburg is the only T10 cruiser fairly immune to AP bomb citadel hits.

All others either get oneshot (Zao, Mosvka, DM, HIV) or can potentially take massive damage (Mino).

 

We have two threads clearing things up about the performance of AP bombs against high tier ships already.

 

To sum it up, if you want to kill BBs, they're not worth it. If you wanna kill T10 cruisers in particular, they're hilarious.

AP bombs are also far less affected by RNG due to the incredibly small manual drop bomb circle, enabling you to get all your bombs on target on anything but DDs.

[Cpt_Sagnik]

Okay, due to my limited battles with AP bombs i am prone to go wrong if I fail to relate or recollect correctly.

But as far as I remember, either Hindenburg or Moskva took a lot of damage from AP bombs. Zao is the one which I have surely one shotted. I edited my previous post to get the ship right, and ended up writing Hindenburg. 

My apologies 

 

[Favuz]

Guys, any advice for Japanese captain skills after basic 11 point build?

Almost unlocked Hiryu, i'll play only in coop until i unlock 2-2-2 and upgrade fighters.

 

I have also Kaga, didn't took her out of coop until got 11 point captain, now i'll start.

 

Should i go concealment or AA for japanes carriers (plus kaga)?

[Commander_Cornflakes]

First, I'd recommend Expert Rear Gunner. It's pretty helpful against catapult fighters and can kill some enemy fighters as well.

Then you have the choice between CE, DE or AFT/ManAA. (AFT or Manual AA depends on the CV)

All of them are valid choices and it depends on personal preference. I choose DE to maximize damage because I don't need any AA (got two fighters, that's enough to defend against CV players stupid enough to snipe me :D) and better concealment has its downside too. When a DD hunts you, he will spot you later, meaning he is already closer to you when you realize it. But having an eye on DD positions, better concealment means you can get closer to the battle and waste less time flying around the map.

 

And lastly, there is Evasive Maneuver. I use it on all my CVs and really love it. But you have to change your whole playstyle to use it efficiently. That's why I can't really recommend it ^^

[El2aZeR]

3 hours ago, Favuz said:

Should i go concealment or AA for japanes carriers (plus kaga)?

 

No need for CE, IJN CVs have plenty of concealment. Having too much hurts you too (as you'll have less reaction time to something sneaking up on you). Might be worth considering on a dedicated Kaga captain as she has worse concealment by quite a bit.

If you want AA, go for MAA on Taiho & Haku as these benefit massively from it. AFT for everything else. Full AA build isn't really recommended as you have fighters to defend yourself with anyway.

 

Dogfighting Expert is a skill I can thoroughly recommend as you have very little ammo with IJN fighters.

 

JoAT + HA and premium DCP allows you to get out of some really hairy situations sometimes. With the new fire resistance changes for CVs these have become more valuable but are still situational.

 

Demolition Expert could be worth taking? I never do it tbh. Might get you a fire or two more from time to time but considering bombs have really high fire chance anyway. Three points for only +2% seems like a wasted investment.

 

ERG is something you should only take if you have points left over after you've gotten everything you've wanted. There are better ways around catapult fighters.

 

Under no circumstances should you take Evasive Maneuvers. Even if you micro well it will cut down the amount of strikes you can fly in a ridiculous manner, especially during longer games, for absolutely no returns.

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Vor 11 Minuten, El2aZeR sagte:

Under no circumstances should you take Evasive Maneuvers. Even if you micro well it will cut down the amount of strikes you can fly in a ridiculous manner, especially during longer games, for absolutely no returns.

Really? Only thanks to EvM, I still have any planes in longer games

[El2aZeR]

Just now, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Really? Only thanks to EvM, I still have any planes in longer games

 

Then you are doing something horribly wrong.

[Commander_Cornflakes]

I know, how can I attack enemy ships with my planes?

That's just wrong, this is not war game.

[El2aZeR]

Your target selection ability apparently leaves much to be desired if that worthless skill is the only thing that leaves you with any planes left in a full duration game.

[Commander_Cornflakes]

You mean it's bad that I attack important and dangerous ships instead of ships without AA at the map border?