The CV Captains Cabin

[ollonborre]

18 hours ago, pra3y said:

Stacking strike aircraft squads and then strike a target helps in dealing with ship AA. That was actually one of the reason why I got through most of the Montana's AA. The flip side is that your planes will be very exposed to enemy fighter strafes.

I think my problem is that I just have not played CV enough to fully know how big of a risk I can take when it comes to loosing planes. So far I have held of a bunch of strikes with fear of loosing 50% of my planes just because I got impatient.

 

And when it comes to learning by doing, random battles are the only reliable way. Playing CooP or Operations are nice for microtraining or getting to grips with arming distance. But the AI don't strafe or behave like real players do so you can't really learn much from it.

[pra3y]

1 hour ago, ollonborre said:

I think my problem is that I just have not played CV enough to fully know how big of a risk I can take when it comes to loosing planes. So far I have held of a bunch of strikes with fear of loosing 50% of my planes just because I got impatient.

 

And when it comes to learning by doing, random battles are the only reliable way. Playing CooP or Operations are nice for microtraining or getting to grips with arming distance. But the AI don't strafe or behave like real players do so you can't really learn much from it.

 

I guess first thing you have to know is what ships have what kind of AA. Certain ships are a big no no depending on your tier of CV or country of CV. For example say a Gneisenau, it's AA is pretty good so it can possibly take down a number of Hiryu's TBs as they attack even if stacked. On the other hand, using a Ranger's DBs stacked, you can brute force through most of its AA since they have more "health" and numbers. Losing planes is part and parcel of CV play. Like the saying "failure is the best teacher"? So don't be afraid. The longer you hold back, the more chance you give the enemy to win since you're not damaging them. Scout early, see which area you should avoid, say the enemy has a Cleveland on the right flank along with the enemy CV fighters then strike left instead that kind of thing. 

 

I use to practice with the Bogue in random battles until they removed manual strafe and attack. Those were the days 

[gekkehenkie50]

42 minutes ago, pra3y said:

 

I guess first thing you have to know is what ships have what kind of AA. Certain ships are a big no no depending on your tier of CV or country of CV. For example say a Gneisenau, it's AA is pretty good so it can possibly take down a number of Hiryu's TBs as they attack even if stacked. On the other hand, using a Ranger's DBs stacked, you can brute force through most of its AA since they have more "health" and numbers. Losing planes is part and parcel of CV play. Like the saying "failure is the best teacher"? So don't be afraid. The longer you hold back, the more chance you give the enemy to win since you're not damaging them. Scout early, see which area you should avoid, say the enemy has a Cleveland on the right flank along with the enemy CV fighters then strike left instead that kind of thing. 

 

I use to practice with the Bogue in random battles until they removed manual strafe and attack. Those were the days 

Until you come across a team that has 2 AA cruisers on either flank and the middle is just empty... You can try and take the enemy CV then, but if its tier 8+...

[pra3y]

10 minutes ago, gekkehenkie50 said:

Until you come across a team that has 2 AA cruisers on either flank and the middle is just empty... You can try and take the enemy CV then, but if its tier 8+...

 

Hahaha who says you can't drop through defensive AA . Just have to adjust the drop abit. Another thing to practice That being said Lexi and Midway have pretty ridiculous AA but the rest are easier to kill, defensive AA or not.

[gekkehenkie50]

20 minutes ago, pra3y said:

 

Hahaha who says you can't drop through defensive AA . Just have to adjust the drop abit. Another thing to practice That being said Lexi and Midway have pretty ridiculous AA but the rest are easier to kill, defensive AA or not.

Though I agree if I try and push through Def AA I just try and hit the outter torpedo from the fan, but unless im dropping a KurryWurst I dont think ive ever hit 2 lines of torps onto any ship smart enough to turn with Def AA on.

[pra3y]

27 minutes ago, gekkehenkie50 said:

Though I agree if I try and push through Def AA I just try and hit the outter torpedo from the fan, but unless im dropping a KurryWurst I dont think ive ever hit 2 lines of torps onto any ship smart enough to turn with Def AA on.

 

The thing about defensive AA is, unless its a ship that has very good AA using it, say a Cleveland, most of the time it just panics your plane or you lose one or 2 planes. Say a Nurenberg uses defensive AA against your Hiryu TBs, you know they won't go poof like if you try it on a Cleveland, so without panicking as a player, readjust the aim abit. If they're turning with defensive AA on, change the attack angle and give abit more lead, if not turning then just give more lead I guess. You make them run into the torps that are spread out by defensive AA while they're moving. Pretty effective against anything bigger than a DD. People sometimes wonder why I can kill them/ land torps even with defensive AA on. That's the reason why lol.

 

Ps: 2 lines is how many torps? 8 torps?

[El2aZeR]

Considering the new up time of CV DCP a snipe is thoroughly unrealistic under DFAA. 30 seconds is plenty of time to pull back your fighters, get new ones in the air or get some support from friendlies. Hitting only 2-3 torps + flooding isn't enough either if you run appropriate skills and premium DCP.

A good CV player will recognize that you're attempting to snipe him anyway and play accordingly. It's not that hard to figure out. Don't see bombers for several minutes despite knowing the enemy CV is active? He's probably coming to snipe you.

 

Also Taiho and Haku have pretty monstrous AA as well if you've specced MAA.

[gekkehenkie50]

3 hours ago, pra3y said:

 

The thing about defensive AA is, unless its a ship that has very good AA using it, say a Cleveland, most of the time it just panics your plane or you lose one or 2 planes. Say a Nurenberg uses defensive AA against your Hiryu TBs, you know they won't go poof like if you try it on a Cleveland, so without panicking as a player, readjust the aim abit. If they're turning with defensive AA on, change the attack angle and give abit more lead, if not turning then just give more lead I guess. You make them run into the torps that are spread out by defensive AA while they're moving. Pretty effective against anything bigger than a DD. People sometimes wonder why I can kill them/ land torps even with defensive AA on. That's the reason why lol.

 

Ps: 2 lines is how many torps? 8 torps?

I meant 2 lines as in say you drop with 3 TB bombers (Taiho). Thats 4 lines of 3 torps. Usually if a cruiser activates Def AA and turns away last second~ I can just ajust for one set of 3 (so 1 of the 4 lines) to hit him. Or if time is critical and I need to drop through Def AA for some reason.

[pra3y]

22 hours ago, gekkehenkie50 said:

I meant 2 lines as in say you drop with 3 TB bombers (Taiho). Thats 4 lines of 3 torps. Usually if a cruiser activates Def AA and turns away last second~ I can just ajust for one set of 3 (so 1 of the 4 lines) to hit him. Or if time is critical and I need to drop through Def AA for some reason.

 

Ah ok, then I guess for me it like what I said above, just readjust and give more lead and make them run into the torps. The turning radius of CAs, BBs and CVs aren't really the best as compared to a DD which can usually turn on a dime so a decent lead can land enough torps to sink or heavily damage an enemy ship.

[pra3y]

On 12/19/2017 at 11:42 PM, El2aZeR said:

Considering the new up time of CV DCP a snipe is thoroughly unrealistic under DFAA. 30 seconds is plenty of time to pull back your fighters, get new ones in the air or get some support from friendlies. Hitting only 2-3 torps + flooding isn't enough either if you run appropriate skills and premium DCP.

A good CV player will recognize that you're attempting to snipe him anyway and play accordingly. It's not that hard to figure out. Don't see bombers for several minutes despite knowing the enemy CV is active? He's probably coming to snipe you.

 

Also Taiho and Haku have pretty monstrous AA as well if you've specced MAA.

 

CV at lower tiers would have to rely on the DCP method to CV snipe but I think with higher tier say Taiho, Haku and Midway you can rely on the raw high alpha potential of the TBs to heavily damage the other CV, then finish up the small remainder by DB and lighting fires and stuff  

 

Have BFT and manual AA. Not impressed enough with my AA lol.

[El2aZeR]

Maneuverability of high tier CVs isn't so bad that you can land enough torps under DFAA to alpha him down to low HP if he maneuvers correctly.

Midway could maybe do it, but that would require enough TBs to survive flying into CV DFAA.

 

Meh, I've wiped entire USN strikes without even trying in my Taiho/Haku.

[pra3y]

On 12/21/2017 at 1:53 AM, El2aZeR said:

Maneuverability of high tier CVs isn't so bad that you can land enough torps under DFAA to alpha him down to low HP if he maneuvers correctly.

Midway could maybe do it, but that would require enough TBs to survive flying into CV DFAA.

 

 

Don't forget that high tier CVs are pretty long and fat and have a larger turning area 

 

You'll have to turn as soon as you spot the planes coming towards you in order to make use of that maneuverability.

[lycea]

On 19-12-2017 at 4:42 PM, El2aZeR said:

 

 

Also Taiho and Haku have pretty monstrous AA as well if you've specced MAA.

Looking at Taiho I think AFT would benefit her more(if one must choose between those two skills). Hakuryu I agree :) 

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Who needs AA on a carrier?

[MadGunna]

On 14-12-2017 at 2:52 PM, aidenthedestroyer said:

I think all old USN CV AS players are moping at the loss of their beloved AS Flight Decks. Ive seen SO MANY AS Hiryuus against me in Ranger. And the number of Saipans has also increased suddenly. Its either people grinding out commander points or again, using AS. But have all the weekend teams come over so early? SO MANY DAMN LOSSES!!! (I cant make Pepsi Cola do her best)

 

On 14-12-2017 at 2:58 PM, aidenthedestroyer said:

Same here, but there are people who used to grind out using AS decks...... 

I used AS Ranger, fite me. It was a great team support deck, and the only really viable deck the Ranger had versus carriers that knew what they were doing. Yes I used strafes.

[El2aZeR]

On 12/26/2017 at 12:46 PM, MadGunna said:

It was a great team support deck, and the only really viable deck the Ranger had versus carriers that knew what they were doing. Yes I used strafes.

 

As it clearly shows in your stats. 

 

Outplaying AS was literally one of the easiest aspects of CV play regardless of how skilled the enemy was due to fundamental shortcomings of the setup you cannot overcome. It was worthless in every aspect in CV play, your striking power pretty much non-existent, your air control was bad (because you had no striking power to back it up. Yes, striking power helps in maintaining air control) and you had precisely zero scouting capability contrary to what others will want you to believe.

AS worked only against noobs, even then strike or even balanced was the far better choice since they too worked against noobs but had far more impact on a battle.

 

I once went up 1v2 (because my teammate was afk) against two AS Rangers in my Hiryu, both of which could strafe. To say that I crushed them is an understatement, they managed a combined tally of ~20 plane kills, my side ended up with over 70 if I remember correctly. And that was when strafing out didn't exist.

[aidenthedestroyer]

19 hours ago, MadGunna said:

 

I used AS Ranger, fite me. It was a great team support deck, and the only really viable deck the Ranger had versus carriers that knew what they were doing. Yes I used strafes.

Now AS at Tier 5, well thats fine cause no actual opposition since strafes are not there, but any skilled player at tier 6+ can overtime, outplay you. AS Decks for Japanese CVs arent all that great, sure you get 3 fighters but thats only 5 per sqaud and you can easily get outplayed by any competetive CV captain. AS Decks, especially for the Americans arent worth it whatsoever. 1) Strike Damage only comes from RNG Related DBs. 2) The reload and refuel time for the Fighters from tier 6 onwards is rather long. imo, you leave your team at the hands of the enemy CV rather than in your hands, why? well the enemy CV player can just exhaust your fighters of all their Ammo and you will have to send them back for rearming. now the time it takes for Rearming for American fighters is around 42s and in that 42s, if its a Japanese CV, he could technically sink one of your ships. And to deal damage to the enemy, well you would have to pray that they used their Damage Con if your DBs are to be effective. Now American AS vs Japanese AS? Japanese always wins, Ill tell you why. Now sure you have 3x5 squads, if played right, you can take out the enemy CV planes rather efficiently. Now related to strike power? The Japanese excell at that. At tiers 6-8 youre sure to have at least 1 torpedo Squadron, so with that, there are unlimited posibilities for a kill and at tier 9 onwards I think you get 2 Torps. But the reason why no one uses AS on Japanese CVs is because of their well balanced loadouts which unlike the americans, had all the necessities of a Team player. Now the American CVs imo are better with these loadouts, 112 for Ranger and Lexi is far better than going 111 where you lack air control and damage if against a Japanese CV. The reason why people get so flustered when they face an AS deck is that they try to shoot down your fighters and beleive me, Ive gotten flustered like that SO MANY Times in Hiryuu. But vsan American AS deck, the only viable thing to do is exhaust their fighters of Ammo, the sooner they go back to the carrier, the better but thankfully, that wont be needed now since American CVs have finally got better loadouts. You probably outplayed others since they got flustered and their main thought that went through their head was SHOOT DOWN THOSE FIGHTERS. And tehy came to you with their aircraft and blah blah blah you know what happens. 

[Cpt_Sagnik]

On ‎26‎-‎12‎-‎2017 at 9:17 PM, El2aZeR said:

AS worked only against noobs, even then strike or even balanced was the far better choice since they too worked against noobs but had far more impact on a battle.

Exactly.

To consider the CVs before the load out change I had one of my highest damage games in my Ranger. And yes it was a strike ranger against a Hiryu. However

the loadout choice can only be regretted when the enemy CV is a real potato or the worst case scenario a super unicum player.

 

But also to note, in my Lex, in the AS loadout I had my highest damage game, controlled the map and also merrily crushed the enemy CV with a Clear Sky achievement. I ran the AS load out on the Lex throughout until reaching the Essex.

The CV are all good imo if played correctly, how ever the current load out change really bugs me with T8 planes.

21 hours ago, aidenthedestroyer said:

American CVs have finally got better loadouts.

I would not completely agree to that as we get zero flexibility and also get down tier planes. However, it has been an upgrade over the pre existing loadouts of zero strike power or zero air control.

[aidenthedestroyer]

3 hours ago, Cpt_Sagnik said:

I would not completely agree to that as we get zero flexibility and also get down tier planes. However, it has been an upgrade over the pre existing loadouts of zero strike power or zero air control.

Thats what i meant 

[LongJohn_]

 

Allrighty. Back in the saddle. The Shokaku. 

 

Got enough free xp from USN CV rework so I could research everything I need on Shoka. So all better planes, best hull and 2-2-2 loadout. 

 

10 games today with 66k avg dmg and 50% WR. Met all but Zep on the opposite side. My captain is still in retraining so I dont have all perks in use. Aircraft Servicing Expert, Dogfighting Expert, Torp Acc, Torp Arm Exp, Air Superiority. Few points to spare, 14 point cap. 

 

How much those cap skills effect on the actual performance? I am a bit rusty so some blunders of my own but overall ... Planes seem pretty weak and fragile. For example Enterprice fighters seem tough even while they should be tier lower?

 

Best game was over 134k dmg which was pretty nice but still lost. Also got Clear Sky while novice Lex player fed planes for strafing. 

 

I'd expect fully upgraded Shokaku to be one or even the most powerful T8 CV. So is it the captain or do I just do something very wrong?

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Probably the captain. Skills like AS don't work at all when retraining (cause you can't have 50% of a plane) and that's a big difference in fighter combat.

[LongJohn_]

17 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Probably the captain. Skills like AS don't work at all when retraining (cause you can't have 50% of a plane) and that's a big difference in fighter combat.

 

Yep. That AS issue is clear. Switching from 4 fighters to 5 is huge difference. +25% to everything. Also some plane health improvements and long waited torpedo acceleration which makes some things easier. 

 

Overall I find same micromanagement problems I had with Hiryu. 2-2-2 is powerful and can do it all but managing it isnt easy. I run into problems with present Essex loadout and this is one reason why I wanted to learn things with Shoka before getting into Midway. 

 

Edit: Actually start wasnt total loss. With 10 games (+one earlier ages ago, all stock) I now have about 300 better PR and 8k more avg damage in Shoka than I ever had in Hiryu. And that was 127 battles. 

 

I guess I have to keep spinning. Learn the loadout and IJN playstyle, get that captain all trained and so on...

[aidenthedestroyer]

Probably by tommorrow, I might have Lexington in my port, I need 1 million more Credits. So I free Xp`d the Fighters. Probably gonna get the TBs, then DBs (HE) and the hull later

Tell me if this is correct 

 

Tho Im rather happy

[pra3y]

9 hours ago, aidenthedestroyer said:

Probably by tommorrow, I might have Lexington in my port, I need 1 million more Credits. So I free Xp`d the Fighters. Probably gonna get the TBs, then DBs (HE) and the hull later

Tell me if this is correct 

 

Tho Im rather happy

 

2 things you may want to consider:

 

a) 1000 pd bombs are awesome, so you may want it earlier than later but I guess that's more of a up to you thing.

 

b) More importantly and extremely unfortunately, Lexi can be spotted from the moon. Add on the fact that the ships it will face all have pretty long range as well it can make you a very nice shell magnet. So it is advisable to go with a concealment built (Essex isn't that bad but when you reach Midway, you get spotted from Mars instead of the Moon now). So you may also want to consider getting the hull upgrade earlier as it reduces your detectability by 1.8km, from 17.5km to 15.7km.

[LongJohn_]

 

These are good points. Those 1000lbs bombs are very different from 500lbs you have used before. And Lex truely has awful consielment. You get spotted over half the map in smaller maps you encounter. Not that much you can do. At T8 USN I'd recommend consielment expert skill on the cap. Not that important to IJN cap since they have much better consielment values.

 

Good luck with Lex. I might get it back one day after these changes. But overall you'd need 14 point captain for that AS+CE build...