The CV Captains Cabin

[pra3y]

1 hour ago, LongJohn_ said:

You definitely have a point there. This is why I've been considering to run 2-1-1 loadout on Essex. More control, more spotting, less brute force. 

 

Still a fine balance between control and brute force. 2/1/1 gives you better control but severely hinders your brute force/damage capability. That's why the proposed 2/1/2 loadout would be a good balance.

 

1 hour ago, LongJohn_ said:

Mostly played Bis and Myoko today but witnessed something Ididnt expect to see: Two AS Essexs banging heads in T9 match. Simply breathtaking. 

 

 They must have had alot of fun with each other. It's like a Saipan meeting Saipan match, see who is better at strafing and avoiding strafes.

[LongJohn_]

1 hour ago, pra3y said:

 

Still a fine balance between control and brute force. 2/1/1 gives you better control but severely hinders your brute force/damage capability. That's why the proposed 2/1/2 loadout would be a good balance.

 

 

 They must have had alot of fun with each other. It's like a Saipan meeting Saipan match, see who is better at strafing and avoiding strafes.

 

Both looked like point-click types. Lots of dogfights. Better for me, Myoko AA cant handle Essex strikes. 

 

I think those fixed loadouts start to remove those nobs out of the game or at least from top tiers. You cant overmatch skilled player with point and click if you have same number of fighter squads. Its strafe in - strafe out and pretty soon their stats are so poor and all fun gone that they realise they are in the wrong league.

[Commander_Cornflakes]

38 minutes ago, LongJohn_ said:

and pretty soon their stats are so poor and all fun gone that they realise they are in the wrong league.

Dat optimism

Their stats are already poor.

[unsinkable_sam_]

Im on PT server now all USA CV same than  round 1. I thought coming some changes in round 2, but no.

Essex with def AA and BFT skill easily destoyed   enemy Essex torp bombers.

 

[LongJohn_]

1 hour ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Dat optimism

Their stats are already poor.

 

Yep but I refered to totally abysmal gaming experience to weed them off.

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Even worse than this one:

[LongJohn_]

7 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Even worse than this one:

 

Yep. I've seen two digit PRs T8-9 - under 100. I cant understand how do you do that. Can such "success" be enjoyable at any level, even for a kid? And have you ever thought how much headbanging it takes to get into T9 with that skill level? 

 

It took me little over 180 games with Lex to grind the Essex and just a few games more (hence better success) with Essex to grind off Midway. I've seen Essex players with two digit personal ratings at +900 games... 

 

Moment of silence. Think about it. Really. 

[pra3y]

10 hours ago, LongJohn_ said:

 

Both looked like point-click types. Lots of dogfights. Better for me, Myoko AA cant handle Essex strikes. 

 

I think those fixed loadouts start to remove those nobs out of the game or at least from top tiers. You cant overmatch skilled player with point and click if you have same number of fighter squads. Its strafe in - strafe out and pretty soon their stats are so poor and all fun gone that they realise they are in the wrong league.

 

I hope they don't leave, I need to de-stress sometimes after playing against a good CV player 

[LongJohn_]

50 minutes ago, pra3y said:

 

I hope they don't leave, I need to de-stress sometimes after playing against a good CV player 

 

I actually like playing against good or even excellent players. They have correct loadouts and normally focus on their own gameplay instead of playing 0-0. Allthough I have to admit I met one superunicum few days ago and he was plain rude. I dont know why. Calling names, making rude remarks on others gameplay... I try to be kind to everybody. Say gl all to both teams at the start and actually might even apologise from someone if I just mess them up real bad. Like one North Carolina other day. Just fixed fire and I struck TBs in cyclone. Dude flooded max time. Didnt sink but game was surely ruined.

 

So even while you are superb compared to others - why be rude? I guess being rude and rage about would be normal for those poorer players. What is the reason to rule the game and still be rude to others?

 

About the stats. Here are the bottom of the bottom in Wows Numbers. I deleted player names since I dont want to advert their nicks. Few <100 PR at the previous page as well. And those are all players that have played more than 30 games with the ship.

[LongJohn_]

22 hours ago, pra3y said:

 

Tbh, stat wise and part gameplay wise he's definitely an excellent CV player. But I'll have to agree with chase here that it was a poor use of his fighters at the start, as well as his teammate asking why would he hit a Moskva right at the start of the game. Also remember the teammate that was pinging on the map about the DD? Could have used his fighters to spot. The thing is his style of CV play in this game was for his benefit. Do alot of damage and hope through that the team may or may not win. You noticed the other CV tried to snipe him? If he had scouted abit instead of focusing on dealing raw damage he probably wouldn't have got hit. No scouting at the start, no air cover for teammates throughout the game. You realize in this game unless the enemy planes are coming after him or his planes he did not actively do anything to cover his teammates? There was an overall lack of teamplay on his part that partly contributed to the lost.

 

You asked before how to have a good winrate right. This style of play is an example of how not to play to win. Relying too much on dealing pure damage while ignoring other aspects of the game just makes it harder for your team to win. Your aim should be to tip the balance in your team's favor, not just pure damage.

 

Could this actually explain why some IJN CVs have better WR than their USN counterparts? In many games the team with most DDs in the end wins. DDs spot, cap, evade... And IJN CVs definitely are better hunting down DDs. I think Aerroon made some CV videos about it some time ago...

[pra3y]

1 hour ago, LongJohn_ said:

 

I actually like playing against good or even excellent players. They have correct loadouts and normally focus on their own gameplay instead of playing 0-0. Allthough I have to admit I met one superunicum few days ago and he was plain rude. I dont know why. Calling names, making rude remarks on others gameplay... I try to be kind to everybody. Say gl all to both teams at the start and actually might even apologise from someone if I just mess them up real bad. Like one North Carolina other day. Just fixed fire and I struck TBs in cyclone. Dude flooded max time. Didnt sink but game was surely ruined.

 

So even while you are superb compared to others - why be rude? I guess being rude and rage about would be normal for those poorer players. What is the reason to rule the game and still be rude to others?

 

About the stats. Here are the bottom of the bottom in Wows Numbers. I deleted player names since I dont want to advert their nicks. Few <100 PR at the previous page as well. And those are all players that have played more than 30 games with the ship.

 

Facing a mixture is always good. Also, rudeness applies to everyone, regardless of whether or not they're a super unicrum or a potato. That's there personality, which is separate from their skill level, well somewhat.

 

38 minutes ago, LongJohn_ said:

 

Could this actually explain why some IJN CVs have better WR than their USN counterparts? In many games the team with most DDs in the end wins. DDs spot, cap, evade... And IJN CVs definitely are better hunting down DDs. I think Aerroon made some CV videos about it some time ago...

 

Its easier for IJN to perform CV roles than a USN one, that's why. Hunting down DDs is just part of it.

[LongJohn_]

 

God dammit. I am so close to stop playing Essex until the next patch or straight away sell it and go for Midway.

 

Four battles this morning. One of them was decent with close encounters with enemy CV which ended up sinking both but overall 135k and victory. But the game before that. Sweeeeeeeet MM with few T7 BBs, too many DDs like usual these days (some mission?!) and enemy Essex with ok average overall CV stats. Then I checked his Essex stats. 50k damage, +33 planes in each game. Sweetest possible MM and some players start crying right at start how T7 BBs get overrun with T9 CVs. My azz! Full AS loadout Essex, spreaded planes across the map, knows how to strafe. Totally useless.

 

Enemy team roflstomped game fast, I sunk myself to save time. Enemy CV last in their list, me second last. What a superb battle such MM. Boy this frustration. Chatted to that Essex player and he said prefers this setup so he can assist his team the best. Sure you can spot but you are just as good your team is since you cant do much yourself. So you win or lose with the team. No solo warriors there. PR around 800 or so, maybe 50-60 games played so propably went straight away to AS loadout. Vaya con dios with that.

 

Ugh!

[Redcap375]

Just played against some guy called Lt_rookie (_FLT_), Tahio against Tahio.  I could tell from the very start that it was going to be a good game and both of us cancelled each other out really. Took the opportunities when we could (he sunk 1 and i sunk 2 kinda-thing). 

 

We ending up winning comfortable in the end, even when i told a BB not to push alone and got smashed by like 7-8 torps, muppet. I came top third and he came middle i think but wow has he played alot of CV games! 2410 games...That's a hell of alot and i don't think i have seen a player have a % in CV;s more than other lines  and all his top ships are CV with some good win rates in them too.

 

Stats wise, i think he is the best player I've played against in a CV.  And to come out onto is a personal achievement.

 

Anyone can beat anyone when CV's are concerned chaps  

 

[El2aZeR]

Just got accused of cheating because I can counterstrafe (aka strafing after a fighter that's strafing out of a click fight).

 

I don't even...

[LongJohn_]

9 hours ago, Redcap375 said:

Just played against some guy called Lt_rookie (_FLT_), Tahio against Tahio.  I could tell from the very start that it was going to be a good game and both of us cancelled each other out really. Took the opportunities when we could (he sunk 1 and i sunk 2 kinda-thing). 

 

We ending up winning comfortable in the end, even when i told a BB not to push alone and got smashed by like 7-8 torps, muppet. I came top third and he came middle i think but wow has he played alot of CV games! 2410 games...That's a hell of alot and i don't think i have seen a player have a % in CV;s more than other lines  and all his top ships are CV with some good win rates in them too.

 

Stats wise, i think he is the best player I've played against in a CV.  And to come out onto is a personal achievement.

 

Anyone can beat anyone when CV's are concerned chaps  

 

 

I checked the stats for him. Impressive. ~74% WR with CVs in over 2400 games. Even if raw damage numbers werent superb PR and WR are so this player surely makes the right moves. 

 

But sure. Even 74%/2700 WR/PR superunicum cant win them all. Its still "only" 74% so even them lose about 1/4 of their games. In some cases its just not even possible to win if rest of the team sucks hard enough. 

 

And sure, even unicums screw things up time to time. Stay too close to front, get spotted and nuked by enemy team etc. And also some of the 

"unbelievable" players (from stats)  are just veterans flattening out a second account. I've seen CV players way way above 3000 (3300-3600) PRs and I dont think its even possible with all the learning process at lower tiers. But surely they are also good. I've seen some incredible stunts from them. You strafe out of dogfight and enemy fighters strafe to same direction from the same dogfight and demolish your fighters... For example.

 

I know this might sound strange but I'd like to see some "not so great" gameplay from our unicum Youtubers. Strangers, Flamu, iChase... I believe they "potato" it sometimes too and it would be great and encouraging to see even them blunder things time to time. After all we are all only humans. 

[LongJohn_]

 

What do you think about CV snipes? I mean sending full attack on enemy CV and try to kill it off. In which cases do you try it?

 

I am a poor CV sniper. Havent even tried it that many times and (hence) dont have that good experiences from it. I know it takes time that might not be worth it, you might lose all your strikeplanes at once and you have to pull it off 100% (sink enemy CV) to make any effect on the game. 

 

I just started wondering this because of all those AS loadouts out there. In proper hands they kill your planes for breakfast and you dont get much done in the actual "frontline". So after you notice their loadout would it be viable tactic to kill them off? Basically two reasons: They deserve it for their loadout and secondly you really dont have anything else to reasonably strike...

 

Naturally at higher tiers you need DoT to do it since with Def AA propably on you dont cause enough alpha with one strike. I've countered such strikes many times. So basically TB+DB first hit and then 2DB followup or TB+2DB initial and DB followup...

[Commander_Cornflakes]

In general, CV snipes are just stupid and a waste of time and planes.

If the enemy has even half a brain, you won't be able to snipe him and if he doesn't, he isn't worth to be sniped.

Especially with AS, what do you think how many planes will reach a CV that has 2 or 3 fighter squads?

 

For Tier 8 or higher: Unless the CV is the last enemy ship alive, never try to snipe him. With Def-AA you just have no real chance to get him with one attack.

For Tier 6 and 7: There are few exceptions when a CV snipe can be viable:

• It's a double-CV match and your partner CV starts a snipe. With your support, the chances for a deadly snipe are very high and having one CV less to deal with will make the game much easier.
• You are lowtier and there is literally no other target you can attack without losing all your planes.

For Tier 4 and 5: Don't play those. Stupid Autodrops

[RUSSIANBlAS]

I get really offended when people try to snipe me, it's one of the only times where I'll start abusing an enemy player as it's like an insult to my intelligence. 

 

Most CV snipers are of low quality and can be stomped out fairly easily. Simply put, why waste time sending plane waves all that way when you can attack closer and more viable targets. Its more punishing to reduce their hanger to 0 by strafing the cr@p out of them.

 

Even a Ranger which is the easiest to snipe CV, especially in Strike deck probably isn't worth wasting time on. 

[El2aZeR]

There is only one specific situation in which I have gone for a CV snipe, really.

1. T6 or T7

2. Middle part of the map is completely clear (allowing your bombers to fly through to the CV unopposed).

3. Enemy CV is alone.

4. You have just won the fighter engagement.

5. Your bombers are close by.

 

Heck, with the new DCP changes even that would become rather dodgy as he'd quite likely be capable of getting fighters up again before you can deal the killing blow.

 

Remember that CV sniping also limits your own income as you cannot shoot down planes anymore, which is a crucial part of your economy.

[Spellfire40]

5 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

There is only one specific situation in which I have gone for a CV snipe, really.

1. T6 or T7

2. Middle part of the map is completely clear (allowing your bombers to fly through to the CV unopposed).

3. Enemy CV is alone.

4. You have just won the fighter engagement.

5. Your bombers are close by.

 

Heck, with the new DCP changes even that would become rather dodgy as he'd quite likely be capable of getting fighters up again before you can deal the killing blow.

 

Remember that CV sniping also limits your own income as you cannot shoot down planes anymore, which is a crucial part of your economy.

Unless your a Saipan agist a ranger since ranger has no Torp prot and Saipan TB can easyly run along the boarder without losing to much time.

[El2aZeR]

Spoiler

Using DFAA is now cheating.

 

This playerbase never ceases to amaze me.

[LongJohn_]

 

Well I think my thought on CV sniping are pretty similar than yours. I havent spend that much thought not to mention gametime to even experiment it that much and most attempts have been by half accident (going for strike, spot CV and change target).

 

Then next question: How do you counter AS CVs? 

 

Bad players are easy. You can run their fighters around the map wasting their time, draw them into friendly AA or use your CV AA. 

 

But what about the decent or good ones that from some reason still play AS? How do you counter that?

[unsinkable_sam_]

AP bombs logic ? WTF

 

Iowa have  crap deck armor and  upper citadel armor -  AP bombs cause pitiful dmg.

Friedrich der Grose,  50-80 deck, +  100 mm citadell deck   - AP  bombs cause  heavy dmg.

And one more thing, i tryed AP bombs on live server,  with Enterprise against FDG,  and never get 50 k dmg. Buffed AP bombs on PT?
 

 

 

[LongJohn_]

44 minutes ago, longley89 said:

AP bombs logic ? WTF

 

Iowa have  crap deck armor and  upper citadel armor -  AP bombs cause pitiful dmg.

Friedrich der Grose,  50-80 deck, +  100 mm citadell deck   - AP  bombs cause  heavy dmg.

And one more thing, i tryed AP bombs on live server,  with Enterprise against FDG,  and never get 50 k dmg. Buffed AP bombs on PT?
 

 

 

 

I think AP bombs are pretty inconsistent. KM BBs are your primary targets. I have no idea why...

 

I think PT Essex/Midway AP bombs are more powerful than AP bombs at T8 Enterprice. It should be intresting. 

 

When the 6.14 is scheduled to hit live servers?

[Estaca_de_Bares]

4 hours ago, LongJohn_ said:

 

I think AP bombs are pretty inconsistent. KM BBs are your primary targets. I have no idea why...

 

I think PT Essex/Midway AP bombs are more powerful than AP bombs at T8 Enterprice. It should be intresting. 

 

When the 6.14 is scheduled to hit live servers?

Yep, all KM BBs have learnt to fear facing an Enterprise, and if the bombs from Essex and Midway are even more powerful people will just have nightmares of swarms of wasps stinging from above. About 0.6.14.0, no idea, but expect it in one or two weeks (I would bet on next Thursday, so the whole December becomes a sea of BB tears).

 

Apart from that, I've just acquired Saipan thanks to the in-game discount. I was doubting mainly between choosing her or Scharnhorst, but the coin literally flipped in favour of the former. Half a dozen games played with 2/2/0 and wreaking havoc in the air (3 Clear Skies) in all but one (RNG was saying "nope" all the time when facing an AS Ranger), but still having to adapt to the fact that hers are T9 planes and the TPB squadrons only have three of them.

 

Salute to all.