The CV Captains Cabin

[veslingr]

Hmmmm it seams AP are still crap....only on KM BBs there is some kind of dmg.....

[Pikkozoikum]

Another topic, guess this thread is for that kind of topics?
I wish wargaming would "steal" some ideas of Steel Ocean. The planes there have a really bad scout range, just ~10 meters. And with a special upgrade they get +100 or something like that.

For Warships that would be way to few. but what if the scout range would bel ike ~4km and the early detection maybe at 6 or 7 km?

Also the AA would need a rework, because otherwise you would just lose all your planes before you even see the enemy ships. But as dd I'm annoyed about this "all time spotted"-cv matches. but also it'S super annoying as cv, when your planes get so easiyl shot down because of too strong aa, better cv player and so on. Some guy in the us forum wrote, that they should change the strafing against air planes to strafing against ground target. that fighters attack the ships' aa and weaken it.

 

I love that idea, because strafing is just no fun, you or the other cv is the loser by strafing. One will loose everything. So in my opinion, wargaming should change the strafing like that. That would also help against super powerfull aa-cruiser and bb's, when they're alone. It shouldn't be one single ship so strong against planes.

 

ps.: I also play the Kii, and it's ridiculous , how I deleted squads at 7.2 km max range.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Problem is strafing surface targets would be utterly abused by bad players. Keeping it to the air likely keeps folk focused on the point of using fighters.

 

 

Also does anyone else think the USN rework will lead to IJN decks having their fighters nerfed in some way? As all the single fighter CVs are simply going to get out played by decent IJN users...

[Sea_viper]

3 hours ago, Negativvv said:

Also does anyone else think the USN rework will lead to IJN decks having their fighters nerfed in some way? As all the single fighter CVs are simply going to get out played by decent IJN users...

That is not necessarily so for 2 squad vs 1.

I have yet to see someone out play the 10 plane death ball of the new GZ... they kill shokaku fighter in left click almost as fast as shokaku kill them in strafe..  

 

 

[unsinkable_sam_]

6 hours ago, veslingr said:

Hmmmm it seams AP are still crap....only on KM BBs there is some kind of dmg.....

Especially against Bismarck and Gneisenau   very effective, but  against FDG, Kurfürst almost useless.

[rnat]

If i may ask, did anyone test the new Scenario with CVs yet, and if so any strong opinions ?

[El2aZeR]

2 hours ago, Sea_viper said:

I have yet to see someone out play the 10 plane death ball of the new GZ

 

I have yet to experience a match against a GZ in which I did not earn CS.

It's laughably easy. Dodge the strafe then click fight. If he strafes out counterstrafe him. Either way you win.

[LongJohn_]

7 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Another topic, guess this thread is for that kind of topics?
I wish wargaming would "steal" some ideas of Steel Ocean. The planes there have a really bad scout range, just ~10 meters. And with a special upgrade they get +100 or something like that.

For Warships that would be way to few. but what if the scout range would bel ike ~4km and the early detection maybe at 6 or 7 km?

Also the AA would need a rework, because otherwise you would just lose all your planes before you even see the enemy ships. But as dd I'm annoyed about this "all time spotted"-cv matches. but also it'S super annoying as cv, when your planes get so easiyl shot down because of too strong aa, better cv player and so on. Some guy in the us forum wrote, that they should change the strafing against air planes to strafing against ground target. that fighters attack the ships' aa and weaken it.

 

I love that idea, because strafing is just no fun, you or the other cv is the loser by strafing. One will loose everything. So in my opinion, wargaming should change the strafing like that. That would also help against super powerfull aa-cruiser and bb's, when they're alone. It shouldn't be one single ship so strong against planes.

 

ps.: I also play the Kii, and it's ridiculous , how I deleted squads at 7.2 km max range.

 

As for scouting and spotting overall planes are the best in planet. I guess even the present system where surface detection range is larger than from the air is unrealistic. At least in good weather, not in cyclone. Naturally the realism isnt what this game is about though..

 

At recent patch they changed invisi-AA. So ships with superb detect range along with super long range AA cant shoot down planes without being spotted. This is similar mechanic to invisifire that DDs and even some cruisers could do earlier. 

 

What comes to strafing... Strafing sea targets, for example DD has been used in real life and is known to cause havoc on deck. But with present ammo counts what at least the unexperienced CV players do: Strafe sea targets and fly without ammo all the time. Thats are clear buff to more experienced players. Preserving ammo is also one thing to handle.

 

But removing the strafe against planes. They already did that at T4-5 to "avoid sealclubbing". Now this learning process is moved to T6 with faster gameplay and more AA. I dont know how it served the new players. Are you suggesting that they should remove it all together? From all tiers? 

 

I dont agree to that. Look some recent GZ test videos. 10 plane fighter squad, point, click and kill along with retartedly OP 10 DB bombersquad with small round drop pattern even with autodrops. Point and click. No skill required. Heck, Flambass ate his lunch half the battle on one video! 

 

CV gameplay is hard. Its clearly the most demanding shipclass but its also the most powerful. It doesnt show in teamstats though because you have to kill half the enemyteam, get clearsky from enemy CV, spot everything and maybe then get top of the scoreboard. They definitely ahould not make whole shipclass supereasy and even up skilldifferences with retarted point and click mechanics. 

 

I understand that having a great CV on other end and having potato in own team pisses off and shifts balance tremendously. Much more than having superb single player in any other shipclass but thats how it works.

 

Oh and for the spotting mechanics. Why dont they change it for both surface and air. You dont spot them right away but only in bigger scale from range, for example its a battleship, and while you close in you can say is it Hood or Bismarck. 

[Sea_viper]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I have yet to experience a match against a GZ in which I did not earn CS.

It's laughably easy. Dodge the strafe then click fight. If he strafes out counterstrafe him. Either way you win.

You must have 100% success with dodging strafe than!

 

Good for you! But I doubt that it is as easy as you suggested.

 

Although The current GZ with 4 squad have so little vision control that it is asking to get out played, the AP DB left click wonder is so idiotically strong... nice job WG. 

 

[LongJohn_]

7 hours ago, Negativvv said:

 

Also does anyone else think the USN rework will lead to IJN decks having their fighters nerfed in some way? As all the single fighter CVs are simply going to get out played by decent IJN users...

 

I guess that has always been issue in tiers it is. T7-9 at the moment. T6 both have single squad in their strike loadouts, at T10 Midways tend to use 2-1-2?

 

With Ranger and Lex things dont change. You still get only one fighter in balanced loadout. But things get really intresting at T9-10. In preliminary data Essex was dropped to upgraded Lex fighters and iChase wondered are they going to do that or keep Essex own T9 fighters. And T10 is also going to be 2-2-2 for Midway so easy times with Taiho and Haku are gone. I expect a lot of whining about it if these changes go through... With even skill USN CVs control the skies at top tiers. 

[LongJohn_]

10 minutes ago, Sea_viper said:

You must have 100% success with dodging strafe than!

 

Good for you! But I doubt that it is as easy as you suggested.

 

Although The current GZ with 4 squad have so little vision control that it is asking to get out played, the AP DB left click wonder is so idiotically strong... nice job WG. 

 

 

At least Flambass and Notser won their enemy Shoka fighters only by clicking them and didnt lose that many planea even with lock in - strafe with other squad tactics. Maybe Flam and Not where lucky or Shokas messed up their strafes some way. But it seems that 10 plane squad hardly never has to use strafing since its damage is brutal just by dogfighting / chasing bombers. This makes it even more retard. Flambass ate his lunch half the battle and just left clicked everything!

[Redcap375]

3 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I have yet to experience a match against a GZ in which I did not earn CS.

It's laughably easy. Dodge the strafe then click fight. If he strafes out counterstrafe him. Either way you win.

 

I Second this 

 

Like i have already posted, bumped into a enemy GZ and owned him in this config, badly.  Really should have scrn saved it to be honest, something i rarely do anyway.   And that was respecting him from the start as i was against something new.  It doesn't matter HOW many planes he has in the squad, its the AMOUNT of squads that counts in my books.  1 vs 2 fighter groups isn't rocket science to overcome.  Playing against the (now the old) Essex taught me that. You can muti strafe from all kinds of directions, he cant.

 

Players will feel rushed to do things with that death blob the GZ has, to he point that he just sent them chasing things down over AA frendly ships.  Before he knew it he had 2-3 left.  Cheers easy.

[LongJohn_]

Have you checked those GZ captains stats? Are they wallet warriors with CV virginity intact. That also makes huge difference. Not that those 10 plane blobs are a good idea either.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

 

4 hours ago, LongJohn_ said:

 

I guess that has always been issue in tiers it is. T7-9 at the moment. T6 both have single squad in their strike loadouts, at T10 Midways tend to use 2-1-2?

 

With Ranger and Lex things dont change. You still get only one fighter in balanced loadout. But things get really intresting at T9-10. In preliminary data Essex was dropped to upgraded Lex fighters and iChase wondered are they going to do that or keep Essex own T9 fighters. And T10 is also going to be 2-2-2 for Midway so easy times with Taiho and Haku are gone. I expect a lot of whining about it if these changes go through... With even skill USN CVs control the skies at top tiers. 

Midway in Random Battles looks very tasty. Essentially a T10 Enterprise on paper but with a far higher strike capability. It's just the struggle to get out the Ranger and Lex will still be very real.

 

I've been at 100k XP in Ranger for weeks as I can't be bothered to push to 118k and Lex with any of her decks. Strike will get farmed by anyone with a brain, 1/1/1 gets out punched by semi competent IJN drivers and AS is the anti fun Police for everyone. Out of those trash decks I used to play AS but why bother when I have a Saipan in 2/0/2 at the tier and a Big E which is an AS CV with strike ability...

 

5 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I have yet to experience a match against a GZ in which I did not earn CS.

It's laughably easy. Dodge the strafe then click fight. If he strafes out counterstrafe him. Either way you win.

I've played vs decent GZ players but even those lose to me as their decks all suck and have low reserves. A Big E is the arch nemesis of GZ as you have double their fighter reserves so any equal skill strafe fight sees the German running out way before Enterprise. Even the super 10 fighter group is sucky as you go to fight him with your X2 groups whilst bombing his unprotected BB. 

[pra3y]

@El2aZeR

Some numbers for your with regards to AP bomb damage:

Spoiler

Also this :

 

Man this AP bombs are wierd, against a Prinz Eugen I barely did any damage despite numerous drops but against a Saint Louis and the Mino above it can deal fairly decent damage. 

[pra3y]

18 hours ago, LongJohn_ said:

 

Fair enough. Both ways have their ups and downs. Sometimes my way pays off big time, sometimes it doesnt. 

 

For example if I know enemy is at least 2 fighter setup I split strikeforces to two groups. Fighter+TB+DB is the first to go in and other, 2DB strike, goes to other side over friendly ships. If first strike runs into enemy fighters I pull them back and start bating enemy fighters while send other strikeforce in. In top tier battle you have time to crash some BB or even cause damage over time on that side. Many times enemy CV moves some or even all fighters running other side of map giving me upperhand with my first strike force. And when fighters get to that side my strike is over and planes returning to ship. Then they rush to other side but same there... 

 

Naturally this works best while top tier. If other side has cruiser force with Des Moines on point coming in its pointless to strike it. Even while enemy fighters arent there.

 

I usually bait with 1 fighter and the TB while the 3 DBs go about doing their stuff. Then from seeing how the other CV plays I can roughly tell the level of skill and whether I'll have an easier game or not. I usually don't go to map edges unless absolutely necessary or spread out too much.

[Redcap375]

How you finding the 2 x Midway torps?

[pra3y]

4 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

How you finding the 2 x Midway torps?

 

Decent. With the Air Groups Modification 3 mod, I've thrown them against Midways, DMs, Minos and the likes. You will lose planes, but they will not melt like butter. In fact in the screenshots above, I actually one shot the Montana with those TBs. It'll punish poor players but give players who make an effort to minimize damage from those TBs a good chance of surviving while also not make the CV player suffer from not being able to drop at a ship. So I would say its pretty fair. Will still prefer them to be tier 9 though.

[Redcap375]

35 minutes ago, pra3y said:

 

Decent. With the Air Groups Modification 3 mod, I've thrown them against Midways, DMs, Minos and the likes. You will lose planes, but they will not melt like butter. In fact in the screenshots above, I actually one shot the Montana with those TBs. It'll punish poor players but give players who make an effort to minimize damage from those TBs a good chance of surviving while also not make the CV player suffer from not being able to drop at a ship. So I would say its pretty fair. Will still prefer them to be tier 9 though.

 

Who wouldn't 

 

But do you think making them tier 9 would make them too strong? Honestly?

[LongJohn_]

3 hours ago, Negativvv said:

 

Midway in Random Battles looks very tasty. Essentially a T10 Enterprise on paper but with a far higher strike capability. It's just the struggle to get out the Ranger and Lex will still be very real.

 

I've been at 100k XP in Ranger for weeks as I can't be bothered to push to 118k and Lex with any of her decks. Strike will get farmed by anyone with a brain, 1/1/1 gets out punched by semi competent IJN drivers and AS is the anti fun Police for everyone. Out of those trash decks I used to play AS but why bother when I have a Saipan in 2/0/2 at the tier and a Big E which is an AS CV with strike ability..

 

 

I used strike with Lex. Its was actually pretty rare that enemy CV could shut me down completely. Some of them dont know what they are doing so that is easy. Some games just are high AA games, T10, and there strike Lex rules. You can use friendly AA and strike from its cover and while you have plenty of strikeplanes you can pile them up for nice damage. Or you can schedule your strikes to enemy CV. As you know micromanaging IJN CVs is massive task. So when he is striking you can just fly past fighters and do your business. He is way too busy with his manual drops elsewhere. Of course you meet AS Lexis or some smuck Shokas that just focus dealing your planes but then even they cant deal damage. And its been useful to learn striking without fighter escort. They are not always around even when you have them. Some are shot down, reloading etc. 

 

I played Ranger with stock 1-1-1 which worked pretty good for me. At T8 and Lex it wasnt viable option anymore. Its too much in th middle, it just sucks at everything. 

 

I got my Midway unlocked yesterday. Also have 2 sparepoints on the captain so I am pretty ready to see what changes do and which one I like to use in the future. 

[pra3y]

5 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

Who wouldn't 

But do you think making them tier 9 would make them too strong? Honestly?

 

Nope, slightly stronger but it wouldn't be too strong. Will probably lose slightly lesser planes going in and be slightly faster.

[LongJohn_]

42 minutes ago, pra3y said:

 

Decent. With the Air Groups Modification 3 mod, I've thrown them against Midways, DMs, Minos and the likes. You will lose planes, but they will not melt like butter. In fact in the screenshots above, I actually one shot the Montana with those TBs. It'll punish poor players but give players who make an effort to minimize damage from those TBs a good chance of surviving while also not make the CV player suffer from not being able to drop at a ship. So I would say its pretty fair. Will still prefer them to be tier 9 though.

 

How does it compare to sending single T10 squad in? Do you get more fishes into water? How is the speed? Do they lag behind other planes?

[pra3y]

28 minutes ago, LongJohn_ said:

 

How does it compare to sending single T10 squad in? Do you get more fishes into water? How is the speed? Do they lag behind other planes?

 

Eh I don't have a tier 10 USN CV yet so I can't tell you the difference between them. Speed wise it feels normal, neither too slow nor too fast, like an average kind of speed.

[LongJohn_]

 

What about plane reserves. Hangars are the same but for example is 2-2-2 Midway splitted up equally between three plane types?

[LongJohn_]

5 hours ago, Negativvv said:

 

Midway in Random Battles looks very tasty. Essentially a T10 Enterprise on paper but with a far higher strike capability.

 

 

 

Do I remember correctly that Big E has little different torp pattern than the usual? In this regard flat drop pattern with Midway is even more powerful. Ships are also big so its possible to score 12/12...