The CV Captains Cabin

[El2aZeR]

Out of curiosity, was it because of you doing alot of damage or providing alot of support or both? 

 

Both actually, tho I really had not much to do on the support end since my opponents in those particular games chose to play AS. 

[pra3y]

 

Both actually, tho I really had not much to do on the support end since my opponents in those particular games chose to play AS. 

 

I don't really think people are adverse to CVs in the game apart from a special few  Good though, it show that people do appreciate good CV play 

[SaxonHoliday]

I did a lot of appreciating my team's CVs recently. Like the time I was hunting the enemy Shoukaku in my Fletcher and ran out of Defensive Fire charges on the way. I hit F7 and not even half a minute later, I had a friendly fighter squadron from Lexington circling overhead. Felt really good.

[Thracen]

Here is one of the special few that dislikes CVs in games.

 

I have fun fighting DDs CCs and BBs be it out tiered, outnumbered or outgunned. The fight may not be fair but there are rules to follow and plays to be made against all other classes of ships except CVs. There is no interplay, it is not even predator and prey it is a marksman and a moving target. They don't risk their ships and pick and choose their fights better than any dd and RNG is their only concern.

 

I have never had fun being struck by CVs, I have even less fun when 2 cooperate. Where is the F-ing counter to these things? God knows the only way they can make exp and credits is with full strike packages so you get no cover from your CVs. Are you all out sailing in your AA CCs? I think not. I'm going up the USN CC line right now and the AA is a joke at T7-8, not enough damage to discourage a strike and not enough range to cover anyone. 

 

Yes I am bitter and salty because short of turn in and pray there is nothing to be done. You say life is hard in a CV and its hard to earn credits and exp. I agree. But the gameplay CVs introduce is not fun. I know this is subjective but I feel confident in arguing the point.

[El2aZeR]

Where is the F-ing counter to these things?

 

The most simplest of teamplay. Stick together with your teammates and a CV can't do anything but MAYBE keep you detected.

Remember, if a CV can strike you without much trouble on his part, YOU'RE doing something wrong, not the CV.

 

I'm going up the USN CC line right now and the AA is a joke at T7-8

 

USN cruisers literally have among the worst AA capabilities at those tiers. This however is not the fault of CVs (their planes get chewed up by a lot of things at those tiers, US cruisers are certainly not among them tho), but WGs failure to properly plan the US cruiser line. Cleveland surpasses Pensa and NO in both self defense and AA escort roles. It won't get better until Baltimore.

[Thracen]

Ahh the classic team play argument, lets take that one apart quickly.

 

Is it a good idea for large groups of ships to clump together? No, because torps. How about if you had dds out to spot, if they are out to spot they can get spotted themselves which can be a quick death for them. How about late game when the numbers have thinned? No again because a tirpitz and A Donskoi have about an 8km difference in their prefered engagement ranges. Also if teamwork was so easy and commonplace the CV would do a better job of covering you in the first place. How about IJN CCs, terrible AA and designed to fight aggressively on the flanks using stealth, they get perma spotted and easily sunk by a half decent drop. Even full AA defense builds make little difference and are a huge sacrifice for the RNG of being up against a CV in the first place.

 

CVs oppress the best traits of other ships, DDs can't be stealthy, CCs have to slow for their BBs in the hope of giving them cover and BBs get hit with a single drop torp get a flood and blow their repair, well guess what they can no longer tank HE. CVs make the game less fun at the moment by weakening the best/most fun aspect of every ship on the map. 

[El2aZeR]

Is it a good idea for large groups of ships to clump together? No, because torps.

 

So a DD torps a group of ships, forcing them to scatter, possibly giving the team's CV a good target. Simple, yet effective teamplay, no?

 

How about if you had dds out to spot, if they are out to spot they can get spotted themselves which can be a quick death for them.

 

See, here's where you are wrong. A DD can still spot ahead and make it back into friendly AA cover in time if planes do show up.

 

No again because a tirpitz and A Donskoi have about an 8km difference in their prefered engagement ranges.

 

So either will have to move ~2km out of their comfort zones to support each other (assuming Donskoi took AFT as he should). Big deal. Certain ships can completely deny air space around them, even being near the edge of their AA means you will be safe.

 

Also if teamwork was so easy and commonplace the CV would do a better job of covering you in the first place.

 

1. Good (non-US) CV players will already do it. However CVs have limits, fighters have both flight times and ammo. It is impossible to cover people 24/7. This is where simple teamplay comes in.

2. While easy, it is not commonplace nowadays, far from it in fact. That however is not caused by CVs, they simply benefit from it. So it is your job as an individual to support your teammates as much as possible and, if given the chance, teach them the value of teamplay.

 

How about IJN CCs, terrible AA and designed to fight aggressively on the flanks using stealth

 

Since when? IJN cruisers are long range HE spammers, often playing from the back row anyway. Playing aggressively usually results in getting a quick ticket back to port. Aside from Zao not one of them is tanky enough to sustain much damage.

 

Even full AA defense builds make little difference

 

I bet you have not yet seen what even some DDs can do with a full AA build.

 

CVs make the game less fun at the moment by weakening the best/most fun aspect of every ship on the map. 

 

Which forces them to play together (or at least it should). If you want to be able to go solo and exploit the "best/most fun" aspects of ships at the expense of your teammates, then that's your opinion and no one can tell you otherwise. That is not how the game was designed, however, and makes the difference between good and great players.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

One CV question:

 

How the hell do you prepare for Ranked?

 

I do pretty well in Random Battles but find Ranked CV play is way beyond my abilities... 

[Thracen]

WoW ok, 

 

So I have a choice, sit in a group and get torpedoed at or give myself a km  2 of breathing room? And now you have a single player in a single ship dictating the playstyle of the entire enemy team? Sure that's fine in itself I suppose, I don't like it but ok. How about if there is a big difference in CV player skill, this huge influence has suddenly swung the match, a single ship out of 15. God forbid you get an AFK CV.

 

"yes BB I will sail into their BBs most effective range so I can cover you from air attack that will only partially protect you anyway." Said no sensible CC player ever. By the way this goes straight back to my point about every bloody ships playstyle being compromised because of CVS. Thanks for backing me up. Having a CV in your match makes 70-80% of ships objectively worse to play and therefore less fun while the last 20% get to feel less that useless for once. I really want an answer on this in particular.

 

Here's where you're wrong, being the first and only thing spotted as a DD is hell and no smart player would want to do it and being either herded back into the group by planes or getting cut off from your group are the only two outcomes other than dieing.

 

Language barriers can often be a problem if not being downright ignored, not easy.

 

There are CV load out without fighters all together, most priorities strikes over defense because they need the creds and exp to break even. Lots don't even spot properly.

 

The IJNs have amazing stealth so they can sit far away and spam? No that's how they are played. They are designed to move aggressively with stealth to hit ships on the flank then use that stealth to escape. Otherwise they would be to similar to russian ccs no?

 

I have an AA fletcher, yep it's nice, the second ship in the whole game I've played with a better than 50/50 or not dieing to a concentrated air drop.

 

IF THE SORT OF TEAMPLAY YOU SUGGEST WAS FUN PEOPLE WOULD ALREADY BE DOING IT! It isn't fun, nor profitable in terms of exp and credits. I love to work with ships around me when I can, but coordinating a fleet of randoms to adopt full anti CV tactics is improbable and if we actually did play like that CVs would be useless anyway. You're a super unicum, probably with a full division on TS being a big part of your played games. Not all of us have that level of skill or support. This also gives you control over ship composition, in terms of CVs and AA ships.

 

I've been in lots of matches with only a single AA ship, and if he picked hydro we're all screwed. That's if you even spawn close enough to get to any sort of support. I've been spawned alone in a BB and died to strikes just running to help, which was sailing away at a faster rate than I.

 

A T10 CV duel is very dependant on player skill, and a heavy win or loss or early pick off will cost the match in most cases. This is too much to put down to the luck of who draws the better player.

[mcboernester]

One CV question:

 

How the hell do you prepare for Ranked?

 

I do pretty well in Random Battles but find Ranked CV play is way beyond my abilities... 

 

Well so far I don't have any Difficulties to be honest, playin' the same Layout (2/2/0 Saipan). However the CV Players I faced so far weren't on pair with me :/ So it wasn't really fair. 

 

At the start I always try to spot all enemy Ships and the enemy Fighters before making a Strike. My Damage isn't really high (around 60k), but I'm trying to focus on Air Superiority and spotting. If you want I can upload a replay from a Game I did half an Hour ago, maybe it helps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[El2aZeR]

So I have a choice, sit in a group and get torpedoed at or give myself a km  2 of breathing room?

 

Or you could change course every ~30 seconds. Or ask your CV to scout. Or your DDs. Or have someone activate Hydro. There are plenty of ways to counter torps.

 

"yes BB I will sail into their BBs most effective range so I can cover you from air attack that will only partially protect you anyway." 

 

Because obviously being a few km out of your comfort zone is suddenly being out of position completely. This doesn't even take smoke nor island cover into account.

 

Here's where you're wrong, being the first and only thing spotted as a DD is hell and no smart player would want to do it and being either herded back into the group by planes or getting cut off from your group are the only two outcomes other than dieing.

 

Being in front of some teammates you're scouting for guarantees that you will not be the first one spotted. And I seem to find plenty of success with it.

 

Language barriers can often be a problem if not being downright ignored, not easy.

 

True, but the majority of players don't even consider sticking together to negate air strikes a possibility. It has little to do with language and more with common sense. And WG has done absolutely nothing to facilitate average player skill ever since the game was released. It should be taught in the most basic of tutorials, yet currently the tutorial doesn't even tell you that you can switch between shell types.

 

There are CV load out without fighters all together, most priorities strikes over defense because they need the creds and exp to break even. Lots don't even spot properly.

 

Very much true. The average CV captain is no better than the average BB captain in terms of skill. They don't spot because they don't even consider spotting a possibility. And who can fault them? They were never taught that they could do so.

Inter class balance is an issue that apparently is being worked on. No sane CV captain will deny that there are problems with how USN and IJN CVs are balanced.

 

Otherwise they would be to similar to russian ccs no?

 

And they are until T10. There are differences, but their playstyle is fairly similar.

Flanking (or exposing yourself in any way, really) either detracts from your dpm time and is thus too much of a hassle or will simply mean a quick return to the port in my experience. After all, the damage output remains the same in any position unless you're suicidally close and want to use AP, at which point escaping is not an option anymore.

 

You're a super unicum, probably with a full division on TS being a big part of your played games.

 

I'm a solo player actually. The vast majority of my games were played alone (4680 out of 6694 according to warships.today) and for some reason my stats seem to actually increase if only solo games are taken into account. Don't ask me how that works.

 

I've been in lots of matches with only a single AA ship, and if he picked hydro we're all screwed. That's if you even spawn close enough to get to any sort of support.

 

A consequence of BB overpopulation. Again, CVs only benefit, not cause.

 

if we actually did play like that CVs would be useless anyway.

 

You have discovered how to counter CVs. Congratulations!

 

Having a CV in your match makes 70-80% of ships objectively worse to play and therefore less fun while the last 20% get to feel less that useless for once. I really want an answer on this in particular.

 

Now, let's get down to the meat of the matter. Is it fun to play this way? (This is gonna be very lengthy, so be prepared)

 

For some, yes, for others, no. Some people prefer teamplay, others would rather go solo. Everyone has a different opinion about it and that's fine. Personally I love it when the team actually plays together for once.

However, this game is designed to facilitate teamplay. Every class has strengths and weaknesses that play off of each other (yes, even CVs). So, regardless whether or not you prefer one playstyle or another, you should be playing with your team if you want to win. Ofc you can just play solo if that's what you prefer, but you should not be surprised if you get punished for it. Expecting a game designed around teamplay to even tolerate solo play is rubbish.

 

Then how did it come to what we currently have? Various factors. Back in CBT everything was rather fine. BBs would ask for AA support, cruisers would ask if anyone needed AA support and so on. However CVs were so devastatingly powerful that AA support from even the best AA ships in the game would often not matter at all, thus they were nerfed, and rightly so. After that they were nerfed again. And again. And again until CVs basically went extinct. Open Beta and Release comes and we get loads of new players that are simply not used to seeing CVs and developing the Meta in ways it was never meant to take. Suddenly, DDs become solo hunters, disregarding their team and the threat of airborne detection. BBs camp backrow without consequences and cruisers suddenly find themselves outnumbered by the exploding population of both DDs and BBs while being themselves targeted by several nerfs, thus becoming unpopular. That means in a match where you actually get a CV many players do not understand how to counter it. DDs willingly expose and get themselves killed by a comfortably placed drop. Backrow camping BBs find themselves punished without proper support that the few cruisers cannot give. Yet somehow, because they're used to it, not their playstyle is the problem, but the CV taking advantage of it.

It certainly has not helped that WG has done jack to facilitate average player skill. I can only say this again and again. I may sound like some broken record but that doesn't make it less true. The average player does not know to turn into a torpedoe spread instead of away from them. They don't know that you have to start turning as soon as planes appear on the horizon, not when the ordinance is already in the water. Likewise new CV players don't know to use their planes to spot. They don't even know what manual drop is. Yet how can you fault them when no one ever tells them these simple, but crucial mechanics? It would be so easy to bring such things up in a tutorial, why is it not done so? Yes, WG said they're working on it, but like with the CV rework it's way overdue and, quite frankly, far too late.

 

Thus we get an environment in which CVs thrive through no fault of their own and an endless supply of egoistically playing scrubs who whine about it using the silliest arguments.

[pra3y]

@Thracen

Some things alot of people dont consider about CVs:

 

a) Unlike shells or torpedos, planes are finite. CVs are the only class that have to worry about running out of ammunition.

 

b) The further a CV is away from battle the less strike it can carry out. BBs with their slow reloads take a maximum about 30+ sec max. DD's torps take maybe slightly pass 1min? For CVs, if u decide to camp at A1, your planes will take about 2 min to reach back to you. Landing takes about 10-20 sec and rearming takes about 30+s. Then it'll take at least another 2min to reach the target. If your target is smart/good enough, your drop will either fail or do minimal damage. So that's 5 min spent attacking a target and you may not even be able to damage it. And the game is only max 20min.

 

c) AA requires no action on your part to be able to use. You dont have to manually shoot down the planes yourself while trying to dodge their attacks. WG makes it easy. AA is auto, u click on a squadron so that yr aa will focus on it and then just turn your ship left and right. On the other hand the CV player would have to consider i) is it worth continuing the drop? ii) do i continue with my original angle of attack and do minimal damage or change the angle but lose more planes in the process.

 

d) While you only have to worry about your ship, depending on the loadout, a CV has to worry about 3-8 squadrons flying about in the air. Scouting, providing air cover and doing damage happening all at the same time is pretty difficult.

[Thracen]

Ok I'm confused, I checked you're account you're an excellent player in all ship types.

 

You know that a pack of ships made up of random players changing direction every 30 second doesn't stay a pack for any length of time. You know seeing torps and not getting hit by them isn't the same as countering them, it's the lost position, you even described this is your first post? Scattering the group for pick offs? good team play?

 

You know that the increase in shell time of 2km for a cc is life and death.

"Being in front of some teammates you're scouting for guarantees that you will not be the first one spotted." This makes no sense, if planes are flying towards a group of ships the closest ship will be seen first by the planes. Concealment on dds being spotted from the air is not good enough to screen a fleet and not been seen on the flight path. Most dds smoke to avoid plane spots yes?

 

"True, but the majority of players don't even consider sticking together to negate air strikes a possibility." I state this every match I have with a cv in it, it is difficult to coordinate via text at the best of times with a few ships. Let alone use the fleet tactics you propose, have you ever pulled this crapoff?

 

Ok now you just start agreeing with me. The crux of my argument is this.

 

There is no practical counter play against cvs for normal ships.

CVs suppress the designed playstyles of every ship making them less fun to play.

CVs skill range causes a disproportionate reliance on individual players for match outcomes.

 

I am not saying CVs need to be removed, I like the variety they could provide but at the moment their current implementation is unfair to nearly all parties due to the above arguments along with their silly exp/credit model. I also think it's absurd for you to argue that it's totally fine for a single player to influence the tactical choices of every other player in the match by simply picking a special ship class. Honestly I think balancing it is next to impossible. A good T10 CV can shut down and dominate a match ruining the experience of players with simple spotting. How can you balance a ship that commands up to 10 other ships armed with torps and bombs that are faster than any other ships on the map and can only be thinned by certain ships when they are in secondary ranges. They are as stealthy as destroyers and can respawn for 2/3rds of the match and if played well the enemy will never even see them let alone damage them since CVS at that level have some of the best AA in the game to stop them getting sniped and tasting their own medicine.

 

P.S. I don't think I'm a scrub. I always want to play with my team to get the best results possible, going it solo is not my style or what I want. I just think the current methods of higher Tier CV counterplay are unreasonable to ask of 15 random strangers from multiple countries of varying skill levels. This is gets worse when a CV is top tier and there are maybe 2 AA ships on the map they can simply save for last.

[Thracen]

@Thracen

Some things alot of people dont consider about CVs:

 

a) Unlike shells or torpedos, planes are finite. CVs are the only class that have to worry about running out of ammunition.

 

b) The further a CV is away from battle the less strike it can carry out. BBs with their slow reloads take a maximum about 30+ sec max. DD's torps take maybe slightly pass 1min? For CVs, if u decide to camp at A1, your planes will take about 2 min to reach back to you. Landing takes about 10-20 sec and rearming takes about 30+s. Then it'll take at least another 2min to reach the target. If your target is smart/good enough, your drop will either fail or do minimal damage. So that's 5 min spent attacking a target and you may not even be able to damage it. And the game is only max 20min.

 

c) AA requires no action on your part to be able to use. You dont have to manually shoot down the planes yourself while trying to dodge their attacks. WG makes it easy. AA is auto, u click on a squadron so that yr aa will focus on it and then just turn your ship left and right. On the other hand the CV player would have to consider i) is it worth continuing the drop? ii) do i continue with my original angle of attack and do minimal damage or change the angle but lose more planes in the process.

 

d) While you only have to worry about your ship, depending on the loadout, a CV has to worry about 3-8 squadrons flying about in the air. Scouting, providing air cover and doing damage happening all at the same time is pretty difficult.

 

A) the numbers of planes Cvs have at high tiers give them more survivability then any other ship on the map. No other ship can do damage like a CV, they either aren't fast enough or tanky enough to engage ships in the numbers a CV can,

 

B) Divide this number by 8 and you get the real reload time, a good cv will move to maximise time on target and a single squadron can make a t10 dd useless by simply spotting torps for example, no reload required. Also the speed of T10 aircraft is high and gets even higher when ordinance has been dropped. Less weight and lower air resistance.

 

C) Manual AA is a skill often specced on AA ships, every time an aircraft enters then leaves vision it has to be selected, it is possible for a ship to be attacked by 8 aircraft at a time? defensive fire lasts what 30 seconds before going on over a minutes call down. Baiting this out is not hard? But this is really easy to deal with because its not like the best targets for cvs are already engaged with other ships where every second matters and the wrong angle means death.

 

D) I'm well aware the micro is tricky, the problem is that there are people that that have mastered it and there are some that really haven't and the difference between them ruines games because CVs are so influential. 

[pra3y]

 

A) the numbers of planes Cvs have at high tiers give them more survivability then any other ship on the map. No other ship can do damage like a CV, they either aren't fast enough or tanky enough to engage ships in the numbers a CV can,

 

B) Divide this number by 8 and you get the real reload time, a good cv will move to maximise time on target and a single squadron can make a t10 dd useless by simply spotting torps for example, no reload required. Also the speed of T10 aircraft is high and gets even higher when ordinance has been dropped. Less weight and lower air resistance.

 

C) Manual AA is a skill often specced on AA ships, every time an aircraft enters then leaves vision it has to be selected, it is possible for a ship to be attacked by 8 aircraft at a time? defensive fire lasts what 30 seconds before going on over a minutes call down. Baiting this out is not hard? But this is really easy to deal with because its not like the best targets for cvs are already engaged with other ships where every second matters and the wrong angle means death.

 

D) I'm well aware the micro is tricky, the problem is that there are people that that have mastered it and there are some that really haven't and the difference between them ruines games because CVs are so influential. 

 

a) Yes but only tier 10 truly have a lot of planes and even then, AA or enemy CV can reduce those planes by a lot. 

 

b) Again only tier 10 CVs will get very fast planes. However for the Midway while it has a large hanger capacity of 136 planes, it has a stock concealment of 18.36km. If it moves up even by a bit ,everyone and their grandmother will be able to spot it. When spec to concealment, detactability drops to 14.87km. Not high, but the CV will be spotted at mid range combat. While we can argue about how Hakuryu has decent concealment, it has a hanger capacity of 100 planes, divided into 8 squadrons. At any time there is 37 planes in the air, leaving 63 planes in reserve. If you count losing planes here and there even those reserves will be used up quite fast.

 

c) Like I said, its hard for the enemy CV as well. The longer the enemy planes linger in your AA zone, the more planes they lose. You don't even have to select them for AA to target them as AA automatically attacks them as soon as they enter the AA aura. When you select them, that is to focus them so that they die even faster. Like I said in the other thread I got attacked by 3 TB squad and 3 DB squad from a Hakuryu and did not die even when over extended. 

 

d) Sure but only some, not all. This makes CVs very skill dependent. Even in mid-high tier CV games I see quite alot of CV players who don't know what they're doing or using their CV to the fullest, just like a potato in any other class of ship. 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

The micro with CV is nowhere near the level of a "real" RTS. Planes don't have multiple abilities nor is there any base building or real time economy...

 

What is it with potato snipers though?!? I'd say about 75% of CV games has low skilled players who's only tactic is to try and snipe me. It always fails, usually with massive losses. Even an idiot that tried to take out my Shokaku last night. Didn't even need Defensive AA to see him off...

 

There's so many bad CV players out there that it makes practicing in CVs hard as you get too used to easy strafes.

[Thracen]

 

a) Yes but only tier 10 truly have a lot of planes and even then, AA or enemy CV can reduce those planes by a lot. 

 

b) Again only tier 10 CVs will get very fast planes. However for the Midway while it has a large hanger capacity of 136 planes, it has a stock concealment of 18.36km. If it moves up even by a bit ,everyone and their grandmother will be able to spot it. When spec to concealment, detactability drops to 14.87km. Not high, but the CV will be spotted at mid range combat. While we can argue about how Hakuryu has decent concealment, it has a hanger capacity of 100 planes, divided into 8 squadrons. At any time there is 37 planes in the air, leaving 63 planes in reserve. If you count losing planes here and there even those reserves will be used up quite fast.

 

c) Like I said, its hard for the enemy CV as well. The longer the enemy planes linger in your AA zone, the more planes they lose. You don't even have to select them for AA to target them as AA automatically attacks them as soon as they enter the AA aura. When you select them, that is to focus them so that they die even faster. Like I said in the other thread I got attacked by 3 TB squad and 3 DB squad from a Hakuryu and did not die even when over extended. 

 

d) Sure but only some, not all. This makes CVs very skill dependent. Even in mid-high tier CV games I see quite alot of CV players who don't know what they're doing or using their CV to the fullest, just like a potato in any other class of ship. 

 

Once you are up to T8 CVs have more survivability than any other ships for the amount of attacks they can make, this survivability increases dramatically when their are no AA specialists, which is more common now than ever. Even the ships that do have defensive fire often switch it for hydro.

 

Oh dear, what a hardship, being able to attack the entire map from stealth, and people think stealth fire is a pain.

 

Again you are making a point of mine, they are very skill dependant so it's very unfair on a team that gets a potato CV when up against a unicum. This is not like any other ship because as has been stated many times in this thread, CVs have way more influence than other ship classes. I refer you too this statement of mine also:

 

"How can you balance a ship that commands up to 10 other ships armed with torps and bombs that are faster than any other ships on the map and can only be thinned by certain ships when they are in secondary ranges. They are as stealthy as destroyers and can respawn for 2/3rds of the match and if played well the enemy will never even see them let alone damage them since CVS at that level have some of the best AA in the game to stop them getting sniped and tasting their own medicine."

 

Being T8 against a T10 sucks even harder if it is a CV because they can very easily come find and attack you across the whole map, no other ship can do this. I spend about 10% of my games in my tirpitz turning from drops and trying to get to the 1 AA cc on the map that usually dies in 4 minutes anyway. I would rather be detonated, at least then I get 10 flags for my misery.

 

 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

T8 is a difficult CV tier... Whilst your planes are powerful and numerous. Almost everyone packs impressive AA that punishes you if you take you time bombing or they're not alone.

 

If you hate planes that much then get Manual AA and a Double Float plane for the Tirp. And sail in a group. CVs will leave you alone unless all your team die.

[Thracen]

I have experiences of that not being the case, too many to count in fact. I do dislike them and I take all the steps I can find to counter them but they still kill me indirectly or directly. CCs I can shoot, BBs I can shoot and angle against or even torp. DDs I can kite and use plans to doge torps. Against a CV all I can do is be attacked and try and survive. Fun it is not.

[SaxonHoliday]

I have experiences of that not being the case, too many to count in fact. I do dislike them and I take all the steps I can find to counter them but they still kill me indirectly or directly. CCs I can shoot, BBs I can shoot and angle against or even torp. DDs I can kite and use plans to doge torps. Against a CV all I can do is be attacked and try and survive. Fun it is not.

 

That is pretty much what CVs do, though. In fact, it was the reason aircraft carriers were so powerful in real life - the ability to attack a target without them being able to fight back directly, unless it was another carrier.

 

The only real way to combat that aspect of CVs would be to completely remove them from the game, and I don't think anyone except the extreme hardliners wants that.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Have you played up to high tier CVs yourself? It isn't all that easy. CV damage can be minimised, or find a RN cruiser or Kutuzov captain who wants to play with you. A full AA spec Kutuzov is capable of nullifying even Hakaryu.

[Thracen]

I don't want CVs out of the game and I know balancing them will inherently be an nightmare and that they aren't that easy to play in terms of stacking up huge damage and exp and credits. However even a half arsed strike in the first 2 minutes of the game and ruin a match for a ship without at heal, before you've even been able to form up together if you've had one of those stupid solo spawns on the edge of the map.

 

You talk of ships that make striking in a CV difficult, the ships you mention sit in smoke, they don't see planes until they are very close and play in a static manner, easy for a CV to avoid no?

 

The problem that sucks the most is that it is quite common for a ship to have no chance against a CV strike, 1 flood and 1 follow up fire can end games even when that player did everything right to defend himself. No other ship inflicts this fate, only CVs and detonations can ruin matches for players that make all the right moves.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

How are you getting farmed in the first 2 mins by a CV in a BB? Unless you've got a bad spawn or are deliberately going solo? 

 

I mean if you were a DD complaining I might understand a bit more. Higher level CV play is about killing the smaller stuff first to leave fat slow ships defenceless...

[Thracen]

It happens quite often, I'll be spawned in a group of 3, a dd a IJN cc and me, they'll scuttle off and leave me as easy pickings. Most of the time I get wasted near a cap though, My ccs have either died or fled back to their max range leaving me fighting BBs unable to turn for fear of broadsides then along comes a torp plane and that's it, GG. I get to chose, die to the BB I'm fighting in the turn I have to make for the torps or eat the torps. My twin float planes almost never disrupt the drop because they are too slow and if my focused AA takes down one plane before it drops I am lucky.

 

So there I am doing what I'm meant to in a BB, closing to effective range covering my dds and tanking damage and I get killed for it with a single drop. I don't have the speed or the gun arcs to be effective in the same positions as CCs and they don't have the armour to be in the same positions as a BB.

 

So for the sake of 1 CV the whole team has to sacrifice their role and take on blob tactics. I don't know about you but I hate lemming train matches and so do CVs I would have thought.

[SaxonHoliday]

It happens quite often, I'll be spawned in a group of 3, a dd a IJN cc and me, they'll scuttle off and leave me as easy pickings. Most of the time I get wasted near a cap though, My ccs have either died or fled back to their max range leaving me fighting BBs unable to turn for fear of broadsides then along comes a torp plane and that's it, GG. I get to chose, die to the BB I'm fighting in the turn I have to make for the torps or eat the torps. My twin float planes almost never disrupt the drop because they are too slow and if my focused AA takes down one plane before it drops I am lucky.

 

So there I am doing what I'm meant to in a BB, closing to effective range covering my dds and tanking damage and I get killed for it with a single drop. I don't have the speed or the gun arcs to be effective in the same positions as CCs and they don't have the armour to be in the same positions as a BB.

That's really less CVs ruining the game for you and more just you having potato teammates. Even if there had been no CV to drop torps on your broadside, you would have still gone down to focus fire eventually (or nailed in your broadside as you try to turn and escape). Just the method of your demise differs.