Montana Vs Yamato: Nothing new, just a question.

[Crusherheads]

Why does Pen values differs between this those Titans?

 

Have read many posts about it, mostly due that Montana has 4 gun's. Regarless it does not explain why Yamato should have such Pen that is able to citadel other ships infront/angled towards him.

 

Not saying that montana should have the insane pen values was Yamato, but i do say that it should have enough to force Yamato to give a "GOOD" angle to montana.

Why?

Because with just a little angle Yamato does, Montana cant Pen him, simple. And this is kinda sad honestly, sure Montana has 406mm/50 Mk7 Guns though with the 460 mm/45 type94 of Yamato only makes 54 more MM.

 

This is just the caliber of the guns, velocity also effects the pen so it seems, and again montana lack on it was well (ingame)... meh rly...

 

Now i wonder how the German tiers 10 BB will be, at least tirpitz has enough of Pen and Velocity to outmatch most of the BBs at her tiers, if this is gona happen for the tiers X german BB, Montana gona lack behinde, with is quite sad, though this is just a "though" from my part, cant say much until its out, but the way this game have been goin also on WoT, i wouldnt be admired...

 

Looking at "Maus" ... some will understand my point i hope.

 

P.s: its quite sad for me to chose either front or Arsse of the montana to  a Yamato, with is obvious i perfer chose to give my arsse to him since i know Yamato can citadel montana infront even angled... what the point of this...seriously. Also saw Crysantos playing his montana, and he is quite good with her, but cant do much agains a yamato even for his skills if a montana cant perform better.

 

In the end i think even if the player is veary skilled with montana and ofc he will play the ship according to her spec has to offer, she(montana) simple cant give more, meanwhile SHE should.

[ollonborre]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but would it not help if the Montana got a buff to its bow armor so that it can no longer be autopenned? I mean it's not much but it would be a start atleast.

[Yoshi_EU]

> in terms of "Better", < in terms of "worse"

Montana AA > Yamato

Montana Speed > Yamato 

Montana Gun count > Yamato

Montana Gun turn > Yamato

Montana Dispersion > Yamato

Montana DPM > Yamato

Montana Concealment > Yamato (only 0.2km)

 

Yamato Pen > Montana

Yamato Bow armor > Montana

Yamato Secondaries > Montana

Yamato Overall Armor > Montana

Yamato Tordpeo Belt > Montana

 

 

Montana wins in usability against cruisers destoryers and cvs.

Yamato wins in Battleship vs Battleships and against Cruiser fights

 

lower number of CVs and low number of crusiers in high tier, that are not stealth are making the montana look worse by stats right now

[AmazingBeaver]

It's too bad WG doesn't want to balance the Montana to fight the Yamato on even terms. 16" mark 7 was possibly the best battleship gun ever put into service. The super heavy AP mark 8 shell was pretty much equal in terms of penetration power to the Yamatos 18.1" guns.

[Msiiek]

Montana Dispersion > Yamato

 

Montana wins in usability against cruisers destoryers and cvs.

Yamato wins in Battleship vs Battleships and against Cruiser fights

 

lower number of CVs and low number of crusiers in high tier, that are not stealth are making the montana look worse by stats right now

 

Yamato have better dispersion even if Montana have new accuarcy module. You forgot to look that Yamato has 3km more range. Also Yamato has the highest sigma (i think?). So there aren't anything more accurate than Yamato. But overall, true. Montana is better now at fighting everything else that is not Yamato.

 

Buff ships 32mm armor to 33mm. No glorious front citadels anymore for yamato. That simple.

[RamirezKurita]

Simply put, the Montana isn't really designed to engage enemy battleships from the ground up like the Yamato is. The Montanas don't have anywhere near the penetration capability of the Yamatos, but do enjoy having a greater number of guns which gives improved performance against cruisers as well as significantly better AA.

[Ictogan]

 

Yamato have better dispersion even if Montana have new accuarcy module. You forgot to look that Yamato has 3km more range. Also Yamato has the highest sigma (i think?). So there aren't anything more accurate than Yamato. But overall, true. Montana is better now at fighting everything else that is not Yamato.

 

Buff ships 32mm armor to 33mm. No glorious front citadels anymore for yamato. That simple.

 

The 3km extra range doesn't really matter though. At those ranges, even BBs can easily dodge the shells.

[Synth_FG]

If you think the prime purpose of a Montana in battle is to go against a Yamato you are doing it wrong 

Montana is there to kill the high tier ca's so that your ca's can get at the enemy dd's and thus your dd's can get at the Yamato, 

Target priority

1) any enemy dd within 8k

2) enemy ca's

3) enemy bb's other than the Yamato (unless there is a group of your side already pounding him) 

4) Yamato 

[Yoshi_EU]

It's too bad WG doesn't want to balance the Montana to fight the Yamato on even terms. 16" mark 7 was possibly the best battleship gun ever put into service. The super heavy AP mark 8 shell was pretty much equal in terms of penetration power to the Yamatos 18.1" guns.

 

On broadside they both can basically (not taking other factors into account) pen on equal terms, but the Yamato usually fights nose in. Yamato also got 2/3 of its fire power on its nose, while the montana only got 2/4. 

Yamato shells 460mm, Mass 1460

Montana shells 406mm, Mass 1225

That alone shows the difference in fire power in a 1vs1 fight

 

Yamato have better dispersion even if Montana have new accuarcy module

 Yamato, 26.6km 276m

Montana, 23.6 297m (with mod) : 264m

I was taking the number of guns into account, increasing your hit chances.

[AmazingBeaver]

 

On broadside they both can basically (not taking other factors into account) pen on equal terms, but the Yamato usually fights nose in. Yamato also got 2/3 of its fire power on its nose, while the montana only got 2/4. 

Yamato shells 460mm, Mass 1460

Montana shells 406mm, Mass 1225

That alone shows the difference in fire power in a 1vs1 fight

 

 Yamato, 26.6km 276m

Montana, 23.6 297m (with mod) : 264m

I was taking the number of guns into account, increasing your hit chances.

 

I know how it works in the game and why...but realistically thought the penetration was pretty much equal yet the mk8 superheavy ap weighed less than three-quarters as much as Yamatos type 1 or type 91 AP shell

[Userext]

You guys are forgetting that this is still a thing

 

 

USN is a lot more accurate at ranges closer than 10km. So yes montana is better at killing anything but yamato that is over 10km

[Kazomir]

Montana will get buffed forever on the sole reason she is not capable of facing Yamatos

[Msiiek]

 

The 3km extra range doesn't really matter though. At those ranges, even BBs can easily dodge the shells.

 

3km I only mentioned becouse it "changes" dispersion in stats page.

[Dee_82]

If you think the prime purpose of a Montana in battle is to go against a Yamato you are doing it wrong 

Montana is there to kill the high tier ca's so that your ca's can get at the enemy dd's and thus your dd's can get at the Yamato, 

Target priority

1) any enemy dd within 8k

2) enemy ca's

3) enemy bb's other than the Yamato (unless there is a group of your side already pounding him) 

4) Yamato 

 

​problem is, the yamato turns its guns on anything larger than a DD and sinks it which throws your idea out the window.  whilst your BBs attack their CAs to make way for your DDs the yamato is picking off your BBs AND CAs

[SunSkaRe]

If you think the prime purpose of a Montana in battle is to go against a Yamato you are doing it wrong 

Montana is there to kill the high tier ca's so that your ca's can get at the enemy dd's and thus your dd's can get at the Yamato, 

 

That could even be true... but not on a game where people complain about MM...  

What you saying is that montana have same weight as a tier X cruiser, but if you have one team with a montana and the other without tier X BB and instead have lets say a Des Moines everyone will rage that MM didnt gave them a tier X BB...

 

Best example out of it is that "team battles with tier X's" that were done between EU vs Asia... where teams basically used all the avaiable tier X's (even shima's) but never ever in any game anyone took a montana... thats how usefull it is considered...

 

 

Edit: Thing is Montana is actually a pretty good BB... but its always matched against another tier X BB (either another Montana or a Yamato) and against a Yamato she is always on the disadvantage

 

[Micromagos]

 

That could even be true... but not on a game where people complain about MM...  

What you saying is that montana have same weight as a tier X cruiser, but if you have one team with a montana and the other without tier X BB and instead have lets say a Des Moines everyone will rage that MM didnt gave them a tier X BB...

 

Best example out of it is that "team battles with tier X's" that were done between EU vs Asia... where teams basically used all the avaiable tier X's (even shima's) but never ever in any game anyone took a montana... thats how usefull it is considered...

 

 

Edit: Thing is Montana is actually a pretty good BB... but its always matched against another tier X BB (either another Montana or a Yamato) and against a Yamato she is always on the disadvantage

 

 

Well guess we get to see how that changes with the introduction of German BBs soon.

[waxx25]

I think Montana does just fine. Yes it is weak against Yamato because........its a facking yamato. Montana still rocks out with its....umm.....guns out against every other ship in game and since the buffs Montana wrecks Yamatos quite hard as soon as they show broadside.

[Comrad_StaIin]

if there is no Yamato on the enemy team you wreck everything in the Montana even better than the Yamato but if there is a Yamao (and there is alwas at least 1) you can not reach the full potential of the Montana

[Namolis]

Tbh, both of them are weak to a well played T10 cruiser or destroyer and both of them are fairly weak to a well played T10 CV. The Yamato can move bow on and create a "no approach zone" within about 15km or so, but it's only a temporary reprieve. They both burn and flood and cannot do anything about either one.

 

I have only played three T10 ships: Yama, Monty and Zao. It is possible the cyclones can give them back the feeling of being a strong ship by letting them move around without being constantly harassed by things they cannot effectively engage, but in normal mode, neither has any hope in hell of comparing with the Zao. Now; I'm aware my WR doesn't tell you that story, but that is more the case of me trying to figure out the Zao and/or "residual" results in the BBs from before Christmas.

 

 

What happened during Christmas? The high tier battleships lost a lot of maneuverability. My Yama struggled (I liked to use the rudder to compensate for the weak turret traverse), but eventually coped due to its suitability at a static, bow-in playstyle. For my Montana, on the other hand, it was an absolute disaster - I could no longer stay mobile; attempt to use all my guns and look for avenues of approach to get close and make my DPM count. More and more, I found myself forced into the same, boring, bow-in playstyle that Yama is so much better at. None of the many buffs they recently gave have made up for that rudder loss. Most of the salt in the sea is actually my tears over that patch.

 

 

I might add that I also found it easy to deal with them in my Ibuki. And if a T10 BB can't handle a T9 CA, is it even worthy of the name?

 

Truth is, Montana has always been the weakest T10 ship, at least since the game went live. Recently, when Yamato lost its heal, it also lost much of its tanking power. Feel free to disagree with me, but I'd place them at the bottom of the T10 pecking order for overall usability.

 

But hey; at least when you load them up, you're still top tier!

[anonym_rivkqQoLcTYW]

Just managed to kill 2 Yamatos and a Montana.. It's a great ship.. 

[Crusherheads]

Thx for the reply guy's, been quite helpfull so far!

 

Thx to it now kinda understand her role better, quite sadness me in a way but makes me happyer in another way regarless her weakness and her strong points. 

[Crysantos]

Why does Pen values differs between this those Titans?

 

Have read many posts about it, mostly due that Montana has 4 gun's. Regarless it does not explain why Yamato should have such Pen that is able to citadel other ships infront/angled towards him.

 

Not saying that montana should have the insane pen values was Yamato, but i do say that it should have enough to force Yamato to give a "GOOD" angle to montana.

Why?

Because with just a little angle Yamato does, Montana cant Pen him, simple. And this is kinda sad honestly, sure Montana has 406mm/50 Mk7 Guns though with the 460 mm/45 type94 of Yamato only makes 54 more MM.

 

This is just the caliber of the guns, velocity also effects the pen so it seems, and again montana lack on it was well (ingame)... meh rly...

 

Now i wonder how the German tiers 10 BB will be, at least tirpitz has enough of Pen and Velocity to outmatch most of the BBs at her tiers, if this is gona happen for the tiers X german BB, Montana gona lack behinde, with is quite sad, though this is just a "though" from my part, cant say much until its out, but the way this game have been goin also on WoT, i wouldnt be admired...

 

Looking at "Maus" ... some will understand my point i hope.

 

P.s: its quite sad for me to chose either front or Arsse of the montana to  a Yamato, with is obvious i perfer chose to give my arsse to him since i know Yamato can citadel montana infront even angled... what the point of this...seriously. Also saw Crysantos playing his montana, and he is quite good with her, but cant do much agains a yamato even for his skills if a montana cant perform better.

 

In the end i think even if the player is veary skilled with montana and ofc he will play the ship according to her spec has to offer, she(montana) simple cant give more, meanwhile SHE should.

 

Well, the Montana is always going to struggle with current penetration mechanics and the 460mm guns of the Yamato, it's sometimes very frustrating but usually you should pick your engagement accordingly. The Montana is a fine BB and can deal with everything except for the Yamato. Screenshots like that of ChesterJ always make me chuckle - a decent Yamato is usually in a way superior position and if you manage to wear it down on your own it's going to cost you. We're not talking about noobs in TX here but decent captains who know what they're doing. I like my Montana, it's an amazing CA hunter and has enough punch to deal with any other BB.

 

The only thing that I'd like to see buffed is the Montana armour layout, it always felt a bit weak for me compared to Yamato's layout - resulting in way lighter damage on the Yamato that you can repair (=more HP). I don't see any way you can properly balance a ship with 9x460mm guns vs. 12x 406mm guns (additionally the Yamato has the superior layout with 2/1 compared to the Montanas 2/2 turrets - Montana has to risk quite a bit to get the rear turrets into the action).

[anonym_rivkqQoLcTYW]

I have learnt to use HE with my Montana; i mean most times Yamatos are with their bow in front of me, so i switch to HE and, payin great attention, can get 8-9 HE hits for each salvo and 12-13k dmg plus fire dmg. Second thing to do is to change rudder when you think Yama is firing: bb's armor can sustain hits better while changin course in this game (or it's probably only a feelin). Naturally this doesn't work everytime..

[ghostbuster_]

Why does Pen values differs between this those Titans?

 

Have read many posts about it, mostly due that Montana has 4 gun's. Regarless it does not explain why Yamato should have such Pen that is able to citadel other ships infront/angled towards him.

 

Not saying that montana should have the insane pen values was Yamato, but i do say that it should have enough to force Yamato to give a "GOOD" angle to montana.

Why?

Because with just a little angle Yamato does, Montana cant Pen him, simple. And this is kinda sad honestly, sure Montana has 406mm/50 Mk7 Guns though with the 460 mm/45 type94 of Yamato only makes 54 more MM.

 

This is just the caliber of the guns, velocity also effects the pen so it seems, and again montana lack on it was well (ingame)... meh rly...

 

Now i wonder how the German tiers 10 BB will be, at least tirpitz has enough of Pen and Velocity to outmatch most of the BBs at her tiers, if this is gona happen for the tiers X german BB, Montana gona lack behinde, with is quite sad, though this is just a "though" from my part, cant say much until its out, but the way this game have been goin also on WoT, i wouldnt be admired...

 

Looking at "Maus" ... some will understand my point i hope.

 

P.s: its quite sad for me to chose either front or Arsse of the montana to  a Yamato, with is obvious i perfer chose to give my arsse to him since i know Yamato can citadel montana infront even angled... what the point of this...seriously. Also saw Crysantos playing his montana, and he is quite good with her, but cant do much agains a yamato even for his skills if a montana cant perform better.

 

In the end i think even if the player is veary skilled with montana and ofc he will play the ship according to her spec has to offer, she(montana) simple cant give more, meanwhile SHE should.

actually he can pen him. not easy as a ymato pens an other yamato  but montana can also pen him if the shells hit the right spot. i remember hitting with montana bow on yamatos for 25k-30k. but its rare thou.

[Aotearas]

The real problem is that the Montana was balanced for a meta that included aircraft carriers. With its monstrous AA it would be nearly immune to anything but strongarmed CV strikes, whereas a Yamato would fare less favourable. CV strikes would also migitate bow-on pushes because they'd force the ship to turn to avoid the strike, giving a Montana a better target to shoot vs Yamato. Likewise, the bow on and reverse tactic would be nearly suicide with CVs around because that's a jiucy target if there ever was one and a Yamato could not defend itself from catching several airdropped torpedoes.

 

Montana's AA performance is supposed to be the big equalizer, but with hardly any CVs being around in higher tiers, that balancing vector simply doesn't exist and Yamato can fully exploit its own strengths.

 

WG needs to incentivice CV play and bring the designed meta back from lifesupport.