secondaries

[PROXANIS_steel]

Dear Fellow Captains,

i am writing to bring out once more the important issue of the secondaries,i have tested almost all the bbs with full secondaries set up,in order to find out that the hit ratio can be even 4- 5% from a distance no more than 6km! And i ask..if i didnt had an secondaries set up what would be my hit ratio?.It is annoying to see 6 -8 secondaries turrets to shoot from a distance of 5-6 km a dd and to totally miss...and the dd escapes easily his mistake to come so close  or if he is full life he even comes strait on to ur ship to execute u with his torps cause he knows that your main guns will have the time to shoot 1 or 2 salvos top,and the damage they will do is between 4-8k!!!!!!!!(an other ingredible thing!!!,,u shoot an bb with ur main main guns from 5km and u can do up to 70k?but to a dd u average shoot 4-5 k!)and ofc the secondaries cant do nothing also!

iT DOESNT MAKE SENSE...yamato has 6 he towers and 2 ap towers,and while shooting a dd from a distance less than 6k not to be able to inflict serious damage to it,those towers normally equals to 2 khabarovsks!!!!!!Montana secondaries equals to  2 fletchers and still the dd can escape with light damage!

My suggestions for the game to become more real and interesting is to introduce  minimum hit ratios per distance per type of targeted ship in order to increase the damage of the secondaries!

Battleships have become easy targets for all categories of ships..:for cvs are easy targets as they are so slow,without an aa support they are sunk average after 2 ,5 exits!For cruisers easy targets to put fires from a distance,but even more if they decide to attack with their torps they can challenge easily  the bb!for dds i already spoke!

FOR prooving my self i only have to call u to see participation in Rank battles in order to understand that this game has become the world of dds!!Dds decide the outcome of the battle not the other ships thus u see 4 dds almost in every battle in each team!

Waiting your comments!

BR

P.R

 

 

[krazypenguin]

Shameless repost of myself, but this is how a BB deals with a DD at close range...

 

 

;-)

 

Edit - but seriously, I think that as a BB player you have to be responsible for keeping an eye on the location of enemy DDs and position yourself and react accordingly - eg in the above image I saw his last spotted position on the map on the other side of an island, guessed he was coming for me, specifically loaded HE especially for him and waited a few extra seconds for him to pop out of cover.  

[Shagulon]

I think with a full secondary build it should be effective as a full AA build on ships with good secondaries to start with (e.g. yamato).

 

A full AA build on a US BB rips planes apart, why can't a full secondary build?

[Syrchalis]

I think with a full secondary build it should be effective as a full AA build on ships with good secondaries to start with (e.g. yamato).

 

A full AA build on a US BB rips planes apart, why can't a full secondary build?

 

Maybe because it's ridiculous that a lone BB can be immune to planes - which should be the counter to lone BBs, just like DDs should be the counter to BBs in general (not just lone ones), and secondaries are the same stupid "oh I don't even have to do something, just let the AUTOMATIC mechanic win the game for me".

 

It's bad enough already that some ships with very good secondaries can't be approached by DDs at all, because even without the main guns they lose at least 2/3 of their health from secondaries.

[Comrad_StaIin]

 

Maybe because it's ridiculous that a lone BB can be immune to planes - which should be the counter to lone BBs, just like DDs should be the counter to BBs in general (not just lone ones), and secondaries are the same stupid "oh I don't even have to do something, just let the AUTOMATIC mechanic win the game for me".

 

It's bad enough already that some ships with very good secondaries can't be approached by DDs at all, because even without the main guns they lose at least 2/3 of their health from secondaries.

 

[Syrchalis]

Perfect example. Yamato has tons of AA guns and guess how it was sunk.

[PROXANIS_steel]

Perfect example. Yamato has tons of AA guns and guess how it was sunk.

 

For your information Yamato was sunk after US navy launched an air attack from 4 cvs and numerous cvls of aproximately 380 planes!!!!In our game yamato can normaly be sunked from an taiho (for hakuru and midway is easy,,),as aa of yama are effective up to 4,4 km and normally they manage to shoot down the incoming planes AFTER THE PLANES HAVE DROPPED THEIR LOAD!!!!...so bad example..))

Regarding the secondaries i think u wont find in ww2 a single captain of an fletcher to possibly think to attack heads on an yama...instead in our game a full life shima will atatck u heads on,will close easily the distance of the 6 km u saw him and from 2 km he will execute u!!!!I 90% OF THE TIME HE WONT LOOSE MORE THAN 12-15K OF HIS LIFE!!!..1 SALVO from your main guns and peanuts from secondaries!!!!..u do not like the auto secondaries to inflict damage??send a post for the main guns of the bbs to inflict more damage to dds cause the current damage they do is ridiculus!!.And 1 last think here we speak about yama where the situation is the best of all bbs in the rest of the bbs the situation is 4 times worse!!

Thanks for ur quote!

[PROXANIS_steel]

Shameless repost of myself, but this is how a BB deals with a DD at close range...

 

 

;-)

 

Edit - but seriously, I think that as a BB player you have to be responsible for keeping an eye on the location of enemy DDs and position yourself and react accordingly - eg in the above image I saw his last spotted position on the map on the other side of an island, guessed he was coming for me, specifically loaded HE especially for him and waited a few extra seconds for him to pop out of cover.  

Dear,

what u so nicely described is the 10% of the cases when a dd approaches u,u managed to do what i described as a top damage(8k)to that dd and u were lucky he wasnt full life, as from 3,9km he had the time easiy to approach u, even with 100 life,  in 2 km and execute u even if u were full life!!!Thats not the case my friend,,,a dd is so powerfull in his concelment if he gets out needs to loose power not to reamain strong!Mr mutsuki has 5.4km concelment and can send torps up to 10km...thatis his power if he fails and loose the concelment there he has to pay,,,but in this gamethat is not the case so every body when there is a contest like rankbattles want to play dds!!..

[IMORTALL11]

Very useful post.I had notice the same thinks but was not sure if was right. I  think wg must fix that.... soon!!!

 

[krazypenguin]

Dear,

what u so nicely described is the 10% of the cases when a dd approaches u,u managed to do what i described as a top damage(8k)to that dd and u were lucky he wasnt full life, as from 3,9km he had the time easiy to approach u, even with 100 life,  in 2 km and execute u even if u were full life!!!Thats not the case my friend,,,a dd is so powerfull in his concelment if he gets out needs to loose power not to reamain strong!Mr mutsuki has 5.4km concelment and can send torps up to 10km...thatis his power if he fails and loose the concelment there he has to pay,,,but in this gamethat is not the case so every body when there is a contest like rankbattles want to play dds!!..

 

Now you have confused me.  Your initial post was about BBs needing stronger secondaries to deal with DDs and my reply was to try and point out that if you're relying on your secondaries to deal with DDs, you are doing it wrong. 

 

Now you start talking about invisible DDs...but secondaries cannot attack invisible DDs.  So what's the problem?  Is it weak secondaries that cannot deal with DDs or is it invisible DDs?  Make your mind up. 

 

Either way, I feel that you are mistaken.  BBs need to be balanced just like every other class, making their secondaries more powerful across the board would break the game balance.

 

As a BB player you have sufficient tools to deal with enemy DDs, namely: WASD, Situational Awareness, the minimap and your team mates - BB players just need to learn to use them.

 

P.S. Mustuki might be stealthy but her 10km torps are unbelievably slow and unless you are completely non-thinking, WASD will save you from them every time.

[eliastion]

BBs should lose secondaries entirely, it would remove the luck factor and restore the situation where DDs counter BBs.

I think that would solve OP's problem.

[rafparis]

because you must have the 5th captain perk to manualy select targets, and at least be in a nagato, plus a full secondairies build (AFT, BFT and Secondary Battery Modification 2).

With this setup, i have in ranked 26% hit rate, and many games with more than 20 000 damage from secondairires alone.

So it is posible to make secondairies usefull, but you must have a 15ptz captain and play agressively.

[krazypenguin]

I think this sums up how I feel about this thread...

 

 

Note where the circled BB dies - he sails into the middle of 3 spotted destroyers, then when he has the chance to turn away (he could have turned right, gone around the island and sailed away to the South) he instead turned North, straight into the 3 of them.  Just...madness.   Also, check out the BB on the far right flank - that's a division mate of the BB who died in the middle (also worth noting, they were a fail division of a tier 6 New Mexico and a tier 5 Kongo - he is the Kongo).  Note how he sails off on his own with no support whatsoever.  In the first mini map he's already got incoming TBs but he decides to steam towards the enemy carriers, again without any support whatsoever.  How do you think 2 CVs react to an enemy Kongo charging them?  Yeah, he managed to get a whole 2 more squares towards them before he sunk under a swarm of TBs...

 

There are no bad BBs*, there are just bad BB players.

 

 

 

 

 

*Well, ok some BBs are bad but still, it's a player problem, not a ship class problem.

[Shagulon]

If you're in a DD and within a BB secondary range you're an idiot. Which makes me wonder about some of the posters in this thread...

[PROXANIS_steel]

 

Now you have confused me.  Your initial post was about BBs needing stronger secondaries to deal with DDs and my reply was to try and point out that if you're relying on your secondaries to deal with DDs, you are doing it wrong. 

 

Now you start talking about invisible DDs...but secondaries cannot attack invisible DDs.  So what's the problem?  Is it weak secondaries that cannot deal with DDs or is it invisible DDs?  Make your mind up. 

 

Either way, I feel that you are mistaken.  BBs need to be balanced just like every other class, making their secondaries more powerful across the board would break the game balance.

 

As a BB player you have sufficient tools to deal with enemy DDs, namely: WASD, Situational Awareness, the minimap and your team mates - BB players just need to learn to use them.

 

P.S. Mustuki might be stealthy but her 10km torps are unbelievably slow and unless you are completely non-thinking, WASD will save you from them every time.

I think U have lost it..i do not speak about the invisibility as a problem i just mention that this  SPECIAL feature of dds is so strong and when dds loose it then they should pay for it accordingly!!!Nevertheless, in our game a dd keeps also the capacity to attack heads on  a single bb,and execute it or inflict great damage and  that is a mistake in my opinion! STRONGER SECONDARIES is a solution to delete this,or if u prefer, bigger damage to dds from main guns!!

As a bb player against a single dd u do not stand a chance are u joking me???.....what u mention as a tool ?other players??..what is this???the comparison is for the 2 categories alone..cause  dds have also team mates to help them against bbs!

DDS  currently ARE SO POWERFULL in this game thus  dds are the no1 choice of players in Rankbattles!!Pls  Count the options of a dd in a game against a bb!! 1st spam torps invisible all the time,,bbs can only try to avoid!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2nd cap if domination bbs too slow ..u win by caps!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                3rd if u are a full life dd  make an heads on attack from an nice angle,exploiding an island or a rock using ur boost..like this u will receive only 1 salvo before launching the torps from 2-3km ..like this u will get for sure torps on  the bb!!!..if fail to kill it instantly u put smoke and escape easy!...if low life after keep stealthy and repeat step 1!

Make their torps better do not care give them more life also to anticipate the threats(secondaries radar etc)......,one think has to change for rebalancing the game..when visible from distances like 3-4-5-6 km the damage that u inflict too them has to increase!!I it is a discrace to shoot a dd from 3-4-5-6  km with the main guns of your bb and average to take 4k!!!!!4k?????..u took 8k and u felt the need to post it..)))because u do not see this so often,,thats why... cause if that was the normal case u wouldnt  even mention mention it!...))

Thanks for ur quote!

 

[Ictogan]

 

For your information Yamato was sunk after US navy launched an air attack from 4 cvs and numerous cvls of aproximately 380 planes!!!!In our game yamato can normaly be sunked from an taiho (for hakuru and midway is easy,,),as aa of yama are effective up to 4,4 km and normally they manage to shoot down the incoming planes AFTER THE PLANES HAVE DROPPED THEIR LOAD!!!!...so bad example..))

Regarding the secondaries i think u wont find in ww2 a single captain of an fletcher to possibly think to attack heads on an yama...instead in our game a full life shima will atatck u heads on,will close easily the distance of the 6 km u saw him and from 2 km he will execute u!!!!I 90% OF THE TIME HE WONT LOOSE MORE THAN 12-15K OF HIS LIFE!!!..1 SALVO from your main guns and peanuts from secondaries!!!!..u do not like the auto secondaries to inflict damage??send a post for the main guns of the bbs to inflict more damage to dds cause the current damage they do is ridiculus!!.And 1 last think here we speak about yama where the situation is the best of all bbs in the rest of the bbs the situation is 4 times worse!!

Thanks for ur quote!

 

But BB main guns inflict tons of damage to DDs.

[PROXANIS_steel]

because you must have the 5th captain perk to manualy select targets, and at least be in a nagato, plus a full secondairies build (AFT, BFT and Secondary Battery Modification 2).

With this setup, i have in ranked 26% hit rate, and many games with more than 20 000 damage from secondairires alone.

So it is posible to make secondairies usefull, but you must have a 15ptz captain and play agressively.

 

My friend all the tests i did was with captains with 18 skills and ofc full secondaries skills and upgrades i have send replays and screen shots to wg for this!!!in some battles u can reach 25% hit ratio..ofc if encountering at close range big targets like other bbs ..eventually if u see the hit ratio after 30 battles secondaries have a hit ratio around 15%(full secondaries setup),,and the question is:what is the average hit ratio for  human players in this game when shooting from ranges from 2-10km?15%,,do not think so!

thanks for your quote

[robihr]

If you're in a DD and within a BB secondary range you're an idiot. Which makes me wonder about some of the posters in this thread...

 

there are some times when you need to point blank BB. you just cant always torp from concealment range...

[AttiliusRex]

 

there are some times when you need to point blank BB. you just cant always torp from concealment range...

 

And if you end up 3 km away from a floating fortress with double your own firepower in just secondary guns, shouldn't you expect a paddling? Seems like you made a bad decision several minutes before you ended up in such a situation. Also don't forget the extreme danger the BB puts itself into by charging a DD.

[robihr]

 

And if you end up 3 km away from a floating fortress with double your own firepower in just secondary guns, shouldn't you expect a paddling? Seems like you made a bad decision several minutes before you ended up in such a situation. Also don't forget the extreme danger the BB puts itself into by charging a DD.

 

idk why are you quoting me, but whatever.

[fnord_disc]

I also think that battleships should win in any situation whatsoever, always, even horrible players.

 

Because battleship.

 

battleship.

 

with a small b

[eliastion]

 

And if you end up 3 km away from a floating fortress with double your own firepower in just secondary guns, shouldn't you expect a paddling? Seems like you made a bad decision several minutes before you ended up in such a situation. Also don't forget the extreme danger the BB puts itself into by charging a DD.

 

You miss the crucial detail. This is a World of Warships game.

Not World of Battleships.

They are NOT impregnable floating fortresses that hardly need to fear anything other than another of their kind. They are NOT supposed to be immune to DDs. End of story.

THAT'S why their secondaries aren't very reliable despite sometimes having firepower comparable to same-tier cruisers. Because they are balanced against same tier cruisers and same tier DDs. And DDs are actually the ones that are supposed to counter them. And no, it doesn't mean only "launch torps from afar and pray that the captain is retarded and will just sail right into them".

[pra3y]

  What Eliastion said.

 

Battleships are not exactly easy targets. Its just players making them easy target. All this people need is some common sense as well as map awareness, which they very seldom have. They then attribute all of this to OP DDs, CAs and CVs when they themselves are simply incapable of properly playing BBs. Use the minimap, change your course often, especially if a DD that can stealth torp is in your area. Even slight manouvoring can cause torps launched  from long range to totally miss you. That's why stealth torping can be so hard and frustrating at times. Plus BBs already have so much more benefits compared to other classes it would just unbalance the whole game if their secondaries become very accurate. In that case if anything enters 10km of a Yamato, the Yamato's main guns and secondaries will actually compete to see who will get the kill.

[Kenliero]

BBs should lose secondaries entirely, it would remove the luck factor and restore the situation where DDs counter BBs.

I think that would solve OP's problem.

 

I think it would be awesome idea to have a switch, so that you can flip your controls to manual secondaries and automatic main batteries.... hmm... oh wait...

[AttiliusRex]

And you think removing the secondaries would improve the gameplay? Considering the tone I assume it was a joke, but i have already seen the same suggestion on other threads by some prevalent users.

 

This thread is a complete mess, at one side you have less experienced BB players who want unwarented buffs to an already strong class. And then we have some people arguing for the removal of secondaries what so ever.

Can't we just keep them as they are?