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Kagero torpedo choice and Fletcher

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Apparently the IJN DD tree peaks at T8

 

On the Kagero you get to choose between

 

a) nerfed Fubuki torps. Please explain why the reload jumped from 90s to 120s despite having 1 torpedo less in the water and driving a supposedly more advanced platform. It's a common thing for WG to have the same armament on a range of vehicles but the higher you go the better the handling or range or numbers are supposed to be.

q3ANUPY.jpg

 

b) Camper torps. If a DD is engaging a target from 20km away he is doing something very wrong and most likely won't help the team win. Enforcing terrible gameplay

5iV4x6O.jpg

 

c) suicide torps. 8km is soviet DD torp range except they melt everything with their cannons.

3NW6kpY.jpg

 

 

What am I supposed to use on my supposed 'torpedo boat'? Can I have the Fletcher (gunboat) torpedoes instead?

VEFS2Yk.jpg

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 Please explain why the reload jumped from 90s to 120s despite having 1 torpedo less in the water and driving a supposedly more advanced platform.

 

In World of Warships, torpedo reload time generally increases with the number of torpedo tubes per launcher. It works the same way on the Hipper (4 triple launchers, 68 s reload) and Roon (2 quadruple launchers, 90 s reload), for example. 

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In World of Warships, torpedo reload time generally increases with the number of torpedo tubes per launcher. It works the same way on the Hipper (4 triple launchers, 68 s reload) and Roon (2 quadruple launchers, 90 s reload), for example. 

 

Fletcher gets 5 torps per launcher and a lower reload than Fubuki torps on Kagero with 4 torps per launcher

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I was referring to launchers that fire the same type of torpedo. In addition to that, larger torpedoes generally have longer reload times than smaller torpedoes. 

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I was referring to launchers that fire the same type of torpedo. In addition to that, larger torpedoes generally have longer reload times than smaller torpedoes. 

 

ok

 

Fubuki-torps get an 30 sec reload increase on the Kagero because it's of higher tier and its launchers fire more torps?

 

Fine

 

But at the same time Kagero-torps only get a 7 sec increase on the Shimakaze despite the Shima being of higher tier and having a bigger launcher.

 

 

Fubuki-torps on the Kagero need to be brought down to anywhere between 90 and 100 sec in reload to have the Kagero halfway competitive compared to the Fletcher

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But at the same time Kagero-torps only get a 7 sec increase on the Shimakaze despite the Shima being of higher tier and having a bigger launcher.

 

Shimakaze has a 150 s reload with Type 93 (153 s with Type 93 mod 3, which is not available on the Kagero). You may have been comparing a Shimakaze with upgrades / captain skills with a Kagero that doesn't have either. 

 

I'm not saying that Kagero is balanced compared to Fletcher btw, just that its reload times follow the usual progression. 

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Shimakaze has a 150 s reload with Type 93 (153 s with Type 93 mod 3, which is not available on the Kagero). You may have been comparing a Shimakaze with upgrades / captain skills with a Kagero that doesn't have either. 

 

I'm not saying that Kagero is balanced compared to Fletcher btw, just that its reload times follow the usual progression. 

You are right, I am sorry. I had the captain on the Shima (PTS) and compared it to tech tree Kagero.

 

Argh it's just that all motivation to go down that path is gone and I might have just end it on Fubuki (which is a tremendous machine I might add)

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Nah it must be all in your head. Kagero is fine. 

Block Quote

 1. Do you plan to do something regarding Japanese DD's and Tashkent ? Or have you decided they will remain as they are ?

A. They will remain as they are.

 

 After all, there's no way a player who plays the actual ship would know about something more than a dev who doesn't even play his own game.

 

 

 

 

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I was about to ask something similar. What's your advice on the matter? 10, 20 or 8 km torps? IMO the 20's are a bit dangerous. Nowadays you only need to look funny to your ally ship for 1 second in order to turn pink. A 20 km range is IMO too much out of control. I was thinking of the 20 with the captain speed buff/ range nerf: that way I get the speed of to 10's back and 16 km is a nice distance in order to keep some control. The 15's on Fubuki work perfectly for me.

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You are right, I am sorry. I had the captain on the Shima (PTS) and compared it to tech tree Kagero.

 

Argh it's just that all motivation to go down that path is gone and I might have just end it on Fubuki (which is a tremendous machine I might add)

 

The Shimakaze isn't worth it anymore. The Fubuki is the best high tier IJN DD.

 

Get the Fletcher and Gearing for tier 9 and 10.

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I was about to ask something similar. What's your advice on the matter? 10, 20 or 8 km torps? IMO the 20's are a bit dangerous. Nowadays you only need to look funny to your ally ship for 1 second in order to turn pink. A 20 km range is IMO too much out of control. I was thinking of the 20 with the captain speed buff/ range nerf: that way I get the speed of to 10's back and 16 km is a nice distance in order to keep some control. The 15's on Fubuki work perfectly for me.

 

I am using the 10km torps on the Fubuki and intend to keep using them on the Kagero. (if I decide to buy it anyway)

 

The best option for the Kagero is definitely 20km + torp acceleration skill BUT I am using my Kamikaze R to farm credits and the Kamikaze does not work with TA skil.

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Just to add insult to injury for the Kagero the USN Mk16 torpedoes even has a shorter detection range of 1.4km compared with the 1.7km of the Type 93 mod 2 torpedoes and only go 1 knot slower!

Edited by DominusEdwardius

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Just to add insult to injury for the Kagero the USN Mk16 torpedoes even has a shorter detection range of 1.4km compared with the 1.7km of the Type 93 mod 2 torpedoes and only go 1 knot slower!

 

MK16 has lower damage, but doesnt matter since they are stealthier and you will hit more.

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MK16 has lower damage, but doesnt matter since they are stealthier and you will hit more.

 

like 1k lower damage....

 

Fletcher even has better torps than Gearing. Honestly the fact Fletcher (and Benson) are too good is also part of the problem of why Kagero looks so bad.

Edited by Takeda92

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like 1k lower damage....

 

Fletcher even has better torps than Gearing. Honestly the fact Fletcher (and Benson) are too good is also part of the problem of why Kagero looks so bad.

 

I do like having the extra range on the Gearing torpedoes.

 

The Kagero doesnt really have anything over the Fubuki which is the main problem with it. WG has sort of removed the role of high tier IJN DDs without giving the a new one.

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I do like having the extra range on the Gearing torpedoes.

 

The Kagero doesnt really have anything over the Fubuki which is the main problem with it. WG has sort of removed the role of high tier IJN DDs without giving the a new one.

 

The fact that USN also fulfill the roles that IJN used to do also doesn't help.

 

IJN DDs always had the torpedo boat and stealth boat advantage, they also were either faster or just as fast. As soon as high tiers comes with the stealth module, all these advantages were reduced. USN not only has decent torps but they have advantages over the IJN torps too. The stealth difference between is minimezed a lot (400m between Kagero and Fletcher is nothing, and Shimakaze and Gearing ties in stealth) and Hatsuharu, Fubuki and Kagero are the slowest DDs in their tiers.

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The other amusing thing is the Kagero sort of gets screwed over even more because it has 4 torpedo tubes. First and foremost there is a problem with an even number of torpedo tubes, this means that there is no torpedo in theory running straight down the centre of the arc unlike in the 3/5 case meaning that if fired at range it is more than possible for a ship to pass straight through the centre of the spread even whereas in a 3/5 spread you are usually least guaranteed a hit in that case.

 

The next bit is a bit mathy and I do apologise. The angles were measured from an image of the aiming arc using ImageJ, it should be noted however the actual angle is slightly less.

 

The angle of arc of the narrow spread for the Fubuki (3 torpedoes) is approximately 5.459 degrees, the Kagero (4 torpedoes) is 6.488 Degrees and the Shimakaze (5 torpedoes) is 7.770 degrees and I'd image that all other 3/4/5 tube launchers have the same angles. That means in theory if the angles between torpedoes are equal the angle between torpedoes for the 3 spread is 2.7295 degrees, the 4 spread is 2.163 degrees and the 5 spread is 1.9425 degrees. So again the 5 spread shows its superiority here as it can get a greater saturation or torpedoes in an area. Furthermore at range due to the smaller angle between torpedoes it is at least likely the 5 spread will hit with 3 torpedoes if not more while the 4 spread in the same circumstance would only hit with 2 if that.

 

The distance between points on a arc of angle theta at radius r (or in this case range) is 2*radius*Sin(0.5*Theta). Using this to clarify the point about ships passing through the centre of a spread through the centre of the 4 spread a yamato with width in game of 203m (assuming the game uses the same 5.24 scale factor as it does for speed) can pass right through the centre of a 4 torpedo spread right down to distances of 5.4km and the Yamato is a somewhat wide ship! (2*5400*sin(0.5*2.163) = 203.8m)

 

Amusingly the 4 spread is not helped further thanks to either a bug or a slight bit of rng in the spread angle. If you've ever played the Kagero you may have noticed that sometimes the angle between torpedoes isn't even as might be expected,  the image below illustrate this with a wide spread (as it is easier to see) but can also happen with  the narrow spread. This really doesn't help matters and again the 5 spread shows its superiority again as more torpedoes in the arc means less the chances of something like this happening.

 27908117711_2d11702774_h.jpg

 

tl;dr Basically the 5 torpedo spread is just better than a 4 torpedo spread and is able to consistently get more torpedoes on target. There is also the added benefit of well being hit with 5 torpedoes is a lot more painful than being hit by 4.

 

Edited by DominusEdwardius
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tl;dr Basically the 5 torpedo spread is just better than a 4 torpedo spread and is able to consistently get more torpedoes on target. There is also the added benefit of well being hit with 5 torpedoes is a lot more painful than being hit by 4.

 

 

Its not a bug its the way of Wg to give DDs a "dispersion" feeling... honestly they do nothing but stuff on people in these days. But you know what? Nerfing IJNDDs' torps is the way to go because as many of us have experienced torpedoes are stuff against high tier ships because most of them understand torpedo concept. they need to buff concealment on IJNDDs since speed is "historical"

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I'd disagree about "nerfing" the IJN torpedoes as they are fairly ineffective at anti ship duties at high tier as is (I spend most of my time in the Kagero using my guns!), perhaps a better way is increase the skill ceiling of the IJN destroyers somewhat in an attempt to make them less popular (God only knows why they are popular as they are) but in such a way that skilled players can be devastating in them if played right (sort of like the Russian DDs).

 

Possibly a better way is altering the launch/spread mechanics. For example if all four torpedoes on narrow setting were made to run parallel or near enough parallel the strike if they hit home would be absolutely devastating for the victim ship, however due to the lack of spread the chance of hitting is low and easily defeated by WASD hacks unless the DD is skilled at placing his salvo. Alternatively changing the launch mechanics could also work. If for example once the launch button was pressed the launcher would proceed to drop a torpedo every 2 seconds ( as in real life ) meaning custom spreads/patterns ( e.g converging, diverging, parallel ) could be developed by altering the launcher position, ship speed and turning while requiring a lot of skill to get the torpedoes going where you want to hit the enemy.

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IJN DDs lost their adge. I play Kagero because I like it but in terms of game balance is out of question that Fletcher is better torpedo boat then Kagero! 

 

                Type93mod2 vs, MK16 mod 1

damage:      20967               19033

reload:          120s                  106s

tubes:            2x4                    2x5

speed:         67 knots            66 knots

detection:     1.7km                 1.4km

 

 

It is obvious, isnt it?

 

Yes Kagero has better concealment 5.4km vs 5.9km maximum but Fletcher can deal other destroyers and has AA defence. When you sailing in Kagero and CV will spot you you cant do anything!

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Getting back to choosing torpedoes for Kagero, the reaction times based on torpedo detectability and speed are 9.76, 15.51 and 9.62 seconds respectively for the 10 km, 20 km and 8 km torpedoes. While the lower reload is a little tempting, in a world where radar exists the 10 km torps are my choice.

 

For reference, about 9 second reaction time is good. Benson has 8.88, Fletcher and Gearing 9.32 seconds. Gearing's 16.5 km range means it can take Torpedo Acceleration without meaningful range loss and reach 8.67 seconds. I believe lower detectability is also better in absolute terms since other ships and planes are less likely to spot the torpedoes, although higher speed allows less time for random maneuvers. Not like the Fletcher/Gearing torps are slow though.

 

The 15 km torps on Fubuki have 9.45 second reaction time, 8.68 with Torpedo Acceleration. Isokaze and Minekaze chill at 7.92 without even trying and Umikaze/Sampson have hilarious 6.41.

 

The reaction times are extended 20% by equipment that any T8+ BB should be using, and 25% by Vigilance which luckily conflicts with Superintendent at the same tier and may thus be delayed in training. Hydro wrecks the reaction times of most torps.

Edited by Ksielvin

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Just a slight point, while It does work for a comparison point of view, reaction time by just dividing the detection range by the torpedo speed is actually a rather flawed concept. It is only valid if the target is completely stationary. I am planning on doing a proper mathematical post about this in the future but basically it boils down to that the targets speed and torpedo approach angle matter in the time the target has to react. Think of it like two objects are on a collision course, for a set distance apart initially, objects travelling towards each other will impact much sooner than if one object is stationary. Effectively the closing speed of the ship and torpedo need to be taken into account. If a ship is approaching the torpedoes at 35 knots and the torpedo runs at 67 knots the effective closing speed is 102 knots and so the ship if the detection range is 1.7km it will have 6.18 seconds to react (assumes game scaling speed is 5.24209) whereas a target retreating at 35 knots will have a effective closing speed of 32 knots and a reaction time of 19.7 seconds. If a torpedo is approaching the target at an angle it becomes a little more complex but that is a matter for another time. (that bit involves trig!)

 

table with torpedo reaction times with against effective closing speed

 

Torpedo type Type 90 mod 1 Type 90 mod 2 Type 93  Type 93 mod 2 Type F3 Type 93 mod 3 Mark 15 mod 3 Mark 16 mod 1 Mark 17
Speed 1600 1400 2500 1700 1900 1900 1100 1400 1400
Detection Range 62 59 62 67 76 67 55 66 66
Target approach speed Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time
-40 26.98 27.33 42.15 23.35 19.58 26.10 27.20 19.97 19.97
-35 21.98 21.64 34.35 19.71 17.19 22.02 20.40 16.75 16.75
-30 18.55 17.91 28.98 17.04 15.32 19.05 16.32 14.43 14.43
-25 16.04 15.27 25.06 15.01 13.82 16.78 13.60 12.67 12.67
-20 14.13 13.32 22.08 13.42 12.59 15.00 11.66 11.29 11.29
-15 12.63 11.80 19.73 12.13 11.55 13.55 10.20 10.18 10.18
-10 11.41 10.60 17.83 11.06 10.68 12.36 9.07 9.27 9.27
-5 10.41 9.62 16.27 10.17 9.93 11.37 8.16 8.51 8.51
0 9.57 8.80 14.96 9.41 9.27 10.52 7.42 7.87 7.87
5 8.86 8.11 13.84 8.76 8.70 9.79 6.80 7.31 7.31
10 8.24 7.53 12.88 8.19 8.19 9.15 6.28 6.83 6.83
15 7.71 7.02 12.04 7.69 7.74 8.59 5.83 6.41 6.41
20 7.24 6.57 11.31 7.25 7.34 8.10 5.44 6.04 6.04
25 6.82 6.18 10.66 6.85 6.98 7.66 5.10 5.71 5.71
30 6.45 5.83 10.08 6.50 6.65 7.27 4.80 5.41 5.41
35 6.12 5.52 9.56 6.18 6.35 6.91 4.53 5.14 5.14
40 5.82 5.25 9.09 5.89 6.08 6.59 4.29 4.90 4.90

 

With Torpedo vigilance (my poor torpedoes!)

  Type 90 mod 1 Type 90 mod 2 Type 93  Type 93 mod 2 Type F3 Type 93 mod 3 Mark 15 mod 3 Mark 16 mod 1 Mark 17
Speed 2000 1750 3125 2125 2375 2375 1375 1750 1750
Detection Range 62 59 62 67 76 67 55 66 66
Target approach speed Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time
-40 33.72 34.16 52.69 29.19 24.47 32.63 34.00 24.97 24.97
-35 27.48 27.05 42.93 24.63 21.49 27.53 25.50 20.94 20.94
-30 23.18 22.38 36.22 21.30 19.15 23.81 20.40 18.03 18.03
-25 20.05 19.09 31.33 18.77 17.27 20.98 17.00 15.83 15.83
-20 17.66 16.64 27.60 16.77 15.73 18.74 14.57 14.11 14.11
-15 15.78 14.75 24.66 15.16 14.44 16.94 12.75 12.73 12.73
-10 14.27 13.25 22.29 13.83 13.35 15.46 11.33 11.59 11.59
-5 13.02 12.02 20.34 12.71 12.41 14.21 10.20 10.64 10.64
0 11.97 11.00 18.70 11.76 11.59 13.15 9.27 9.84 9.84
5 11.07 10.14 17.30 10.95 10.88 12.24 8.50 9.14 9.14
10 10.30 9.41 16.10 10.24 10.24 11.44 7.85 8.54 8.54
15 9.63 8.77 15.05 9.61 9.68 10.74 7.29 8.01 8.01
20 9.05 8.22 14.14 9.06 9.18 10.13 6.80 7.55 7.55
25 8.53 7.73 13.32 8.57 8.72 9.58 6.38 7.13 7.13
30 8.06 7.29 12.60 8.13 8.31 9.08 6.00 6.76 6.76
35 7.65 6.91 11.95 7.73 7.94 8.64 5.67 6.43 6.43
40 7.27 6.56 11.36 7.37 7.59 8.23 5.37 6.12 6.12

With Vigilance and module

  Type 90 mod 1 Type 90 mod 2 Type 93  Type 93 mod 2 Type F3 Type 93 mod 3 Mark 15 mod 3 Mark 16 mod 1 Mark 17
Speed 2400 2100 3750 2550 2850 2850 1650 2100 2100
Detection Range 62 59 62 67 76 67 55 66 66
Target approach speed Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time Reaction time
-40 40.47 41.00 63.23 35.03 29.37 39.15 40.80 29.96 29.96
-35 32.97 32.46 51.52 29.56 25.78 33.04 30.60 25.13 25.13
-30 27.82 26.86 43.47 25.56 22.98 28.57 24.48 21.64 21.64
-25 24.06 22.91 37.59 22.52 20.73 25.17 20.40 19.00 19.00
-20 21.20 19.97 33.12 20.12 18.88 22.49 17.49 16.93 16.93
-15 18.94 17.70 29.60 18.19 17.33 20.33 15.30 15.27 15.27
-10 17.12 15.90 26.75 16.59 16.02 18.55 13.60 13.91 13.91
-5 15.62 14.43 24.40 15.26 14.89 17.05 12.24 12.77 12.77
0 14.36 13.20 22.44 14.12 13.91 15.78 11.13 11.80 11.80
5 13.29 12.17 20.76 13.14 13.05 14.68 10.20 10.97 10.97
10 12.36 11.29 19.32 12.28 12.29 13.73 9.42 10.25 10.25
15 11.56 10.53 18.06 11.54 11.62 12.89 8.74 9.62 9.62
20 10.86 9.86 16.96 10.87 11.01 12.15 8.16 9.06 9.06
25 10.23 9.27 15.99 10.28 10.47 11.49 7.65 8.56 8.56
30 9.68 8.75 15.12 9.75 9.97 10.90 7.20 8.11 8.11
35 9.18 8.29 14.34 9.27 9.52 10.36 6.80 7.71 7.71
40 8.73 7.87 13.64 8.84 9.11 9.88 6.44 7.35 7.35

You'd have to have serious problems not to be able to avoid some of those torpedoes :D ( and retreating targets you also have to take into account that the torpedo will also probably run out of range, for example the Type F3s cannot be launched from stealth and hit a moderately speeding retreating target.

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(assumes game scaling speed is 5.24209)

 

I used formula from wiki which was originally from here: "using a conversion factor of 1 knot = 2.6 in game meters per second".

 

I believe that's true for ships and torpedoes but planes might have a different relation between listed knots and game speed.

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Technically I was just being a little more precise I think :D I was going off the torpedo indicator for the Type 93 mod 2, which states for a distance of 8520m it will take the torpedoes 47.19 seconds to reach or 180.547 ms-1. In reality the torpedoes go 67 knots or 34.4678ms-1. In other words the game multiplies the actual speed 5.238135 times reality (or there abouts the value I used was an average of a couple of different ranges and times to get a value of 5.24209). So to convert the ingame speed in knots to the actual speed in ms-1 effectively we do ( Speed in ms-1 = Speed in knots * 5.238135 * 0.514444 ) or ( Speed in ms-1 = Speed in Knots * 2.694727 ). It amounts to basically the same thing. The formula listed on the wiki is just incomplete :D it does actually state "the time it takes for the torpedo to travel across its Detectability Range, can be computed assuming a stationary target" in the article.

 

The actual reaction time taking into account approach angle and target speed is as follows
T = X / ( sqrt(((-2 * VT * V * Cos(A)) + VT2 + V2 ))

 

Where

T = reaction time in seconds

X = torpedo spotting distance in meters

VT = Torpedo speed in ms-1 (ingame ms-1)

V = Target ship speed in ms-1  (ingame ms-1)

A = Torpedo approach angle in degrees ( where 0 degree is directly behind, 90 degrees is approaching to directly starboard, 180 degree is dead ahead, and 270 degree is directly to port etc )

 

 

Edited by DominusEdwardius

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Bit random and amusing, I've figured out how wargamming calculated the times for the US torpedo reload times. The exception is the Gearing which uses the length only time.

 

Time accounting for mass and length = 0.001914817 * Weight of Torpedo(kg) * length of torpedo (m) * number of torpedoes per launcher

Time accounting for length only = 3.335611756 * Length of torpedo (m) * number of torpedoes per launcher

Reload time = average of both reload times

 

to give examples

Fletcher Mark 16

Time A = 0.001914817*1799*6.248*5 = 107.614s

Time B = 3.335611756*6.248*5 = 104.205s

Reload time = (104.205+107.614)/2 = 105.9s = 106s -- Which is correct

 

Farragut Mark 12

Time A = 0.001914817*1590*4*6.883 = 83.82s

Time B = 3.3356*6.883*4 = 91.836s

Reload time = (91.836+83.82)/2 = 87.82s = 88s again correct

 

for IJN DDs it appears to only account for length and not mass and length times, but there appears to be some variation applied here with only the Type 93 mod 0 and mod 2 torpedoes following the logic perfectly.

 

this would generally explain some of the seemingly inexplicable torpedo reload times on some ships. It seems like a fairly logical method they have made however it generally seems to ignore the fact that IJN ships actually had reloads unlike US ships who well didn't, the reloads in later ships being stored in line with the tubes and hence a very quick reload, it ignores the fact that IJN crews were trained to reload torpedoes and under combat conditions and that the IJN ships have cranes and pulley systems to allow much speedier reloads. So for any US ship to have a better reload is inexcusable really.

 

It sadly leads to the situation where the fubuki can potentially fire 126 torpedoes in 20 minutes while the Kagero can only fire 88 of the same torpedoes in the same period of time using the same torpedo reload skill. This is incredibly daft as it makes the ship a tier lower have a a significantly better torpedo firing rate and hence better torpedo boat. It also doesn't make sense historically; the Kageros torpedo reloads were kept in line with the torpedo tubes allowing a very speedy reload using a compressed air motor and pulley system. The fubuki on the other hand only carried a single reload for the centre torpedo launcher amidships near the rear funnel ( it used to have a reload for all 3 launchers but the other two sets were removed as weight saving measures due to stability problems). In addition the reload it did have wasn't in line with the torpedo tubes so each individual torpedo would need to be transported down the deck and manhandled into the tube. But anyway all said and done the Kagero could reload its forward torpedo launcher in around 6 minutes while the rear launcher could be reloaded in 3 minutes ( forward launcher needed to be repositioned to allow the other two tubes to be loaded hence the time doubled ). If the motor failed it could take 5 minutes per torpedo so 20 minutes for either launcher using 10 people and a rope. 5 minutes for that very short distance, but for the fubuki where the torpedo reload is situated a longer distance away I'd have to guess 15 minutes per torpedo so 45 minutes approximately to reload all 3.

 

Since the fubuki seems fairly well balanced for its tier with its 90 second reload. Using these times above as a scaling factor it would probably take the Kagero 40 seconds manually and 12 seconds using the motor (or 6 for the rear launcher!) Granted this would probably make the Kagero somewhat of a headache torpedo spamming monster but hey, whoever said reality was fair :D 240 torpedoes per 20 minutes (and greater with skills etc) sounds a little bit ridiculous! A reload of about 77 seconds would probably be fairer as it would allow the Kagero to fire 120 torpedoes in 20 minutes compared with the Fletchers 110 and the Fubukis 117 meaning it would actually be a better torpedo boat than its predecessor and the so called gunboat US DD :P

 

 

 

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