Japanese Destroyers need some love

[Mayv]

 

I was fine when I heard IJN DDs are getting shorter torps for more aggressive, yet rewarding playstyle. The problem is: the new playstyle is not rewarding at all, and IJN DDs has nothing unique with no advantages over the other 2 DD lines.

 

The short range torpedoes could be good if high tier IJN DDs moved like a Minekaze.

[DominusEdwardius]

And had the torpedo reload rate of the Minekaze, and the torpedo detectability.

[Takeda92]

If you play a fubuki like an amagi or nagato, i guess you have a problem, and not the ship!.....

 

Is that what you could get from my post?

 

Try not patronize people when you have your stats hidden.

[plammbeach]

 

Is that what you could get from my post?

 

Try not patronize people when you have your stats hidden.

 

Statswhore will be statswhore, i'm not one of them.

[Takeda92]

 

Statswhore will be statswhore, i'm not one of them.

 

Don't accuse people of not knowing how to play their ships then, without any basis.

[plammbeach]

 

Don't accuse people of not knowing how to play their ships then, without any basis.

 

DId you not compare your time in a fubuki vs amagi & nagato.? or did i misread something.

[DominusEdwardius]

No he was basically saying that while playing an IJN DD he has to work a lot harder in order to achieve the same contribution to a match than he would if he was playing a battleship like a Nagato or Amagi

[plammbeach]

No he was basically saying that while playing an IJN DD he has to work a lot harder in order to achieve the same contribution to a match than he would if he was playing a battleship like a Nagato or Amagi

 

IF you ask me that is comparison!, - Just because one can play good in a bb, doesn't mean one can perform on same level in a dd, "Jap dd in this matter. "

Etc. I have the complete opposite feeling, i find dd very relaxing to play especially japs.

[ghostbuster_]

And had the torpedo reload rate of the Minekaze, and the torpedo detectability.

 

do you want nuclear torps for IJP DDs too?

[ColonelPete]

Wich brings the DD exactly what? I dont Play a ship that brings other Players exp and credits in a game that requires myself to grind to reach higher Level ships. To many of the Things you descibe do not reward the DD Player and at T10 you can do the same Thing in a Gearing and not be Auto outguned at Close range when detected and outperformed whith Torpedos when they are suposed to be your main perc. If i wanted to Play suicide Torpedo boats i would have Chosen to Keep playing low Tir RU DDs. WG changing the playstyle of ships hit me twice on T9 with Taiho and Kagaro and i tell you ist no Fun reselecting your target 1st T10 ship 3times in a Grind game.

 

 

Main goal is winning the battle. All of those things make your team to win the battle. So DDs have bigger impact on game than any other class.( execpt CVs)

Tier VIII&IX IJN DD have the lowest win rating. Does not seem they have much effect on the outcome of a match.

[ghostbuster_]

Tier VIII&IX IJN DD have the lowest win rating. Does not seem they have much effect on the outcome of a match.

 

you know why that is? people dont do the necessary things. torping from max torp range and than waiting for the reload is not the only thing that you can do with IJP DDs. Spot for them, give them cover, use your guns... Most of IJP DD players i saw after the changes are still trying to do what they were able to do before the changes. they are not trying to learn what to do now. and of course WR is low. its not a suprise. 

 

and btw, more battles done with a ship means there are also more bad players playing that ship. for example: when i got my yamato as my first tier X, its server avarage damage was way higher. than more people got yamato also bad ones and avarage damage has droped.

[DominusEdwardius]

Just a suggestion, I don't know if you have played them recently (since about February) but perhaps having a play in the Kagero and seeing how well you do over the course of say 25-40 games and see if you still share the same opinion before and after.

[ColonelPete]

We had that in multiple discussions. If there were a way to improve the performance of the ships, the stats would be improving, but they do not. It is now two months since the changes.

 

and btw, more battles done with a ship means there are also more bad players playing that ship. for example: when i got my yamato as my first tier X, its server avarage damage was way higher. than more people got yamato also bad ones and avarage damage has droped.

 

Do you have any proof for that assumption?

The number of battles of the Shima went down nearly 60% from the week after the torpedo change until last week. The Yamato is now played more often.

That is the change in performance:

 

Player Average for Ships [ at 2016/05/07 ]                 Nation Class Tier Name Win Damage Kills/Battle Survival Total battles JP DD 10 Shimakaze 46.74 40.075 0.72 37.45 12.758 Player Average for Ships [ at 2016/06/25 ]                 Nation Class Tier Name Win Damage Kills/Battle Survival Total battles JP DD 10 Shimakaze 47.94 41.172 0.70 40.52 5.228

 

 

Player Average for Ships [ at 2016/05/07 ]                 Nation Class Tier Name Win Damage Kills/Battle Survival Total battles JP BB 10 Yamato 52.49 84.756 0.90 47.01 8.704 Player Average for Ships [ at 2016/06/25 ]                 Nation Class Tier Name Win Damage Kills/Battle Survival Total battles JP BB 10 Yamato 50.97 84.691 0.89 50.18 5.309

 

[Spellfire40]

 

you know why that is? people dont do the necessary things. torping from max torp range and than waiting for the reload is not the only thing that you can do with IJP DDs. Spot for them, give them cover, use your guns... Most of IJP DD players i saw after the changes are still trying to do what they were able to do before the changes. they are not trying to learn what to do now. and of course WR is low. its not a suprise. 

 

and btw, more battles done with a ship means there are also more bad players playing that ship. for example: when i got my yamato as my first tier X, its server avarage damage was way higher. than more people got yamato also bad ones and avarage damage has droped.

No we 1st tryed to use the new Torpedos finding out they cant hit a retreating target and i think you how how t8 plus battles go: a Shells fall within 1 km of any ship and it changes corse for the far mapboarder. the only Thing you can use the Torps on are other DDs were they provide a benefit. Hiting anything with the old Torpedos is near imposible and it dont matter if you shppt from 19.9km or 5,6 km. IJN on T7 to T9 dont have the Speed to work in Close range wince most CA run you down if you have to maneuver. Any DD that maneged to doge your Torpedos that isnt IJN will make short work of you at their detection range. The new Torpedos are fine.....agist a pushing BBs with 0 Ca or DD cover or any planes in the Air.

 

IJN is about Torps. They DO work and can defend themself at 8 to 13 km if you Chose to go gunboat but who selected the IJN line to Play primaryly gunboats? Even before the Torp nerfs it wasnt the Shimas that lanched from 17 plus km that sunk ships left and right it were the DDs that lanched from around 7km.  8km is no range for a T9 pus DD that is suposed to be primaryly a Torpedo boat.

[Userext]

 i find dd very relaxing to play especially japs.

 

We are talking about tier 9-10 DDs. You cant say that unless you played IJN tier 9-10 DDs

 

 

 

[edited]

[ghostbuster_]

We had that in multiple discussions. If there were a way to improve the performance of the ships, the stats would be improving, but they do not. It is now two months since the changes.

 

 

Do you have any proof for that assumption?

The number of battles of the Shima went down nearly 60% from the week after the torpedo change until last week. The Yamato is now played more often.

That is the change in performance:

 

Player Average for Ships [ at 2016/05/07 ]                 Nation Class Tier Name Win Damage Kills/Battle Survival Total battles JP DD 10 Shimakaze 46.74 40.075 0.72 37.45 12.758 Player Average for Ships [ at 2016/06/25 ]                 Nation Class Tier Name Win Damage Kills/Battle Survival Total battles JP DD 10 Shimakaze 47.94 41.172 0.70 40.52 5.228

 

 

Player Average for Ships [ at 2016/05/07 ]                 Nation Class Tier Name Win Damage Kills/Battle Survival Total battles JP BB 10 Yamato 52.49 84.756 0.90 47.01 8.704 Player Average for Ships [ at 2016/06/25 ]                 Nation Class Tier Name Win Damage Kills/Battle Survival Total battles JP BB 10 Yamato 50.97 84.691 0.89 50.18 5.309

 

 

any experienced player can tell you that. check yamato stats before 4-5 months and the current stats. and there are new ranked season. this drop is normal. people are playing ranked atm. check it after the ranked again.

 

 

[ghostbuster_]

No we 1st tryed to use the new Torpedos finding out they cant hit a retreating target and i think you how how t8 plus battles go: a Shells fall within 1 km of any ship and it changes corse for the far mapboarder. the only Thing you can use the Torps on are other DDs were they provide a benefit. Hiting anything with the old Torpedos is near imposible and it dont matter if you shppt from 19.9km or 5,6 km. IJN on T7 to T9 dont have the Speed to work in Close range wince most CA run you down if you have to maneuver. Any DD that maneged to doge your Torpedos that isnt IJN will make short work of you at their detection range. The new Torpedos are fine.....agist a pushing BBs with 0 Ca or DD cover or any planes in the Air.

 

IJN is about Torps. They DO work and can defend themself at 8 to 13 km if you Chose to go gunboat but who selected the IJN line to Play primaryly gunboats? Even before the Torp nerfs it wasnt the Shimas that lanched from 17 plus km that sunk ships left and right it were the DDs that lanched from around 7km.  8km is no range for a T9 pus DD that is suposed to be primaryly a Torpedo boat.

 

well if i didnt play IJP DDs myself, i could believe you. but no. its not that dramatic. before the changes IJP DDs were gods of DDs. now they are taking risks too. 

[Mayv]

 

you know why that is? people dont do the necessary things. torping from max torp range and than waiting for the reload is not the only thing that you can do with IJP DDs. Spot for them, give them cover, use your guns... Most of IJP DD players i saw after the changes are still trying to do what they were able to do before the changes. they are not trying to learn what to do now. and of course WR is low. its not a suprise. 

 

USN DDs do those things equally if not better than IJN DDs.

 

and btw, more battles done with a ship means there are also more bad players playing that ship. for example: when i got my yamato as my first tier X, its server avarage damage was way higher. than more people got yamato also bad ones and avarage damage has droped.

 

So how do you know more good players arent playing the ship? Is this just a baseless assumption to push your narrative of IJN DDs are fine?

 

 

well if i didnt play IJP DDs myself, i could believe you. but no. its not that dramatic. before the changes IJP DDs were gods of DDs. now they are taking risks too. 

 

Even before the nerf I found USN DDs to be better.

[ghostbuster_]

 

 

So how do you know more good players arent playing the ship? Is this just a baseless assumption to push your narrative of IJN DDs are fine?

 

 

good players can get high tiers faster than bad players. you dont need any statistics for that, just logic. good players gains more exp and credits per battle. so bad players need longer time to get tier Xs.

[Takeda92]

Even before the "nerf" Kagero and Fubuki were still worse ships than Fletcher and Benson, so no. They were not Gods of DDs, it is just over-exaggeration of the community over something they hate.

[Mayv]

 

good players can get high tiers faster than bad players. you dont need any statistics for that, just logic. good players gains more exp and credits per battle. so bad players need longer time to get tier Xs.

 

So what about the Shimakaze then?

[ghostbuster_]

 

So what about the Shimakaze then?

 

? most played DD => more bad players => bad average statts

[ColonelPete]

 

? most played DD => more bad players => bad average statts

 

Once again, no proof.

Why did the stats of the Shima not improve dramaticly when the number of battles went down by nearly 60%?

You are just making stuff up.

[DominusEdwardius]

By the logic of the most played ships being the having bad more bad players and stats, the same should battleships, the most played cruisers and the most played DDs should be the worst. In addition you forget that the most played ships should also have more good players and more average players. But anyway lets look at that stats for tier 9 over the last two weeks (from warships today).

 

DDs

Ship	Battles	Win rate	Damage	XP
Kagero	17,630	49.86%	31,378	1,376
Fletcher	16,987	53.67%	36,159	1,557
Udaloi	5,582	55.70%	39,911	1,686

Quite clearly the Kagero is performing drastically worse than the other tier 9 DDs, but in terms of players it is more or less on par with the Fletcher and as such should have approximately the same number of bad and good players.

 

Cruisers

Ship	Battles	Win rate	Damage	XP
Roon	13,803	50.85%	45,918	1,408
Ibuki	13,211	50.52%	43,749	1,314
Baltimore	8,467	50.87%	34,296	1,431
Dmtri Donskoi	7,344	52.00%	47,911	1,444

Quite clearly here the most played cruisers isn't performing the worst, infact it is probably one of the better ones. So despite having more "bad players" it isn't performing the worst.

 

Battleship

Ship	Battles	Win rate	Damage	XP
Iowa	25,367	51.15%	60,324	1,446
Izumo	15,907	49.65%	56,763	1,420

Again the most played ship here is quite clearly performing so much better than the ship with the lesser number of players, added to the fact the tier 9 BBs have been in the game as long as the IJN/USN DDs means there would be the same number of bad players in relation to time, and since the Iowa has nearly 10000 more players than the Kagero there should be a heck of a lot more "bad players" by your logic, added on to that BB players seemingly get the most bad players because big ships = better right? And yet the Iowa is still performing better than the Kagero!

[ghostbuster_]

 

Once again, no proof.

Why did the stats of the Shima not improve dramaticly when the number of battles went down by nearly 60%?

You are just making stuff up.

 

main players are palying ranked is it that difficult to understand this. wait a month and check again. im sure number of battles will increase after ranked season.