Japanese Destroyers need some love

[Userext]

Shima had allways the worst winrate of T10 DDs so nothing new

 

I m not saying T10DDs though. I m saying DDs. 

 

Buff them in any way you want, except their torpedoes....those are strong enough

 

Exactly what i m trying to say. I would say concealment would be the better choice. IJNDDs are supposed to be stealthiest while gearing has same concealment with shima

[RogDodgeUK]

moved to Ships / Destroyers

[Takeda92]

If our all-knowing devs overlords that plays the game 24/7 and read every feedback from every player says IJN DDs are fine, then they are fine.

 

Maybe they will change their minds in 3 years from now. I mean look at WoT, they are still fixing balance issues today that existed from way back before.

 

Meanwhile, just play easy mod Yamato and soon to be buffed for the millionth time Montana and powercreep German BBs.

[Jethro_Grey]

 

So shima is according to you gearing 0.7 right? Why do you blame people about shima's stats but when gearing was underdog everyone blamed the ship.

 

 

 

I NEVER SAID A THING ABOUT DAMAGE NEVER

 

If a ship earns more exp than the ship above it then there is something damn wrong. 

I dont need to post that picture you show yourself with your words and your incompetent reading skills. 

 

Oh by the way incase you didnt notice i shold repeat again if a tier lower ship is better than a tier higher ship at stats(average exp most importantly) then there is something wrong there. One of them has to be UP or OP

 

Well, i see. You never said anything about damage ever. ^^

 

I mean DDs shouldnt as much as damage a BB can but seriously? Nearly doubled the amount? Thats telling you somethnig better listen to it

 

Whatever.

 

Anyways, yes i posted just damage in the first line, as i was assuming more damge equals more XP, so ididn't feel the need to explicitly state it.

And if you use your readingskills, assimung you have any, you would have seen that i wrote in my second line that my tier IV and V DDs do more damge and more XP then the Tier VI one.

 

But let me rephrase my question:

 

Can you please point me to where it is written that a Tier X ships has to do more damage and/ or more XP then a Tier IX?? Please? It has to be written somewhere.

And i repeat, that stats are indicators and not gods written truth.

 

Plus all the all the reasons i stated in regards to the formely OP ship Shimakze and the plaayers that played her in other posts in this very thread.

 

I'm off to enjoy a Kebap, which is statistically the most eaten fast food around here and has put the Pizza on the undeserved second place.

Kebap is OP, pls nerf. ^^

[Userext]

Can you please point me to where it is written that a Tier X ships has to do more damage and/ or more XP then a Tier IX?? Please? It has to be written somewhere.

 

Because if ship A is supposed to be better than ship B because it is a higher tier but it actually isnt there must be a problem. If yamato was worse than fuso then there would be a problem. In which twisted world does a ship that requires more money and more experience to unlock and is pointed as the next ship is worse than the previous one? Granted you are hiding your stats and then claiming you played shimakaze is laughable. Why hide if you have got nothing to hide? This is like asking why does an upgraded bow has to be better than the normal bow. WELL ITS FREAKIN CALLED UPGRADE FOR A REASON

 

If you arent capable of understanding what an upgrade is and what its purpose could be you might aswell shut up because there is no point for me to talk with an ignorant like you. Seriously how does your brain let you post this

Can you please point me to where it is written that a Tier X ships has to do more damage and/ or more XP then a Tier IX?? Please? It has to be written somewhere.

 

[Krizmuz]

Tried the Shima on test server and I don't love it like the Fubuki. Make it faster or lower the torp reload time or whatever.

[creamgravy]

Here's what I'd do with IJN destroyers.

 

- Like US DDs, move the 'AA' upgrade onto a separate C-hull and keep guns, torpedoes and HP available on a B-hull (Hatsuharu, Fubuki, Kagero)

- Give Kagero the 12km type 93 torpedoes as the final torp upgrade.

- Make the 12km type 93 torpedoes on Shimakaze standard (you shouldn't require XP to grind/research)

- Nerf type 92 torpedoes a bit (12k damage is fine)

[Userext]

- Nerf type 92 torpedoes a bit (12k damage is fine)

 

12k damage? Do you know what that means? At best 6k damage and at worst...well no damage at all. 

[shamelesscreature]

 

12k damage? Do you know what that means? At best 6k damage and at worst...well no damage at all. 

 

Type 92 is the upgraded Isokaze and Minekaze (+ similar premium ships') torpedo. They don't meet any ships with 50% torpedo damage reduction. 

 

Also, torpedoes can only deal "no damage at all" if they hit the bow or stern after it has run out of hitpoints. This effect is the same for all torpedoes in the game regardless of their nominal damage. 

[Takeda92]

 

Type 92 is the upgraded Isokaze and Minekaze (+ similar premium ships') torpedo. They don't meet any ships with 50% torpedo damage reduction. 

 

Also, torpedoes can only deal "no damage at all" if they hit the bow or stern after it has run out of hitpoints. This effect is the same for all torpedoes in the game regardless of their nominal damage. 

 

Is also the torpedo for Kamikaze, which in case the either nerf a premium ship (not gonna happen) or spare her from the nerf in which case we get yet another overpowered premium ship.

[Userext]

 

Type 92 is the upgraded Isokaze and Minekaze (+ similar premium ships') torpedo. They don't meet any ships with 50% torpedo damage reduction. 

 

Also, torpedoes can only deal "no damage at all" if they hit the bow or stern after it has run out of hitpoints. This effect is the same for all torpedoes in the game regardless of their nominal damage. 

 

i know 0 damage is for every torpedo. Yet this 12k one would do around 4k damage most of the time not even considering buldge reduction

[22cm]

Won t happen.  They are trying to make the game easier,  to be more attractive for new players,  and invisi torping is a big no-no. I m hoping they will not turn WoWs into a world of corridors like in WoT. 

[shamelesscreature]

 

i know 0 damage is for every torpedo. Yet this 12k one would do around 4k damage most of the time not even considering buldge reduction

 

That's not how it works. 

[Userext]

 

That's not how it works. 

 

depending on where it hits that is exactly how it works. Its 1/2 for unprotected bow and stern while it goes down to 0 for torpedo buldge(middle of ship) Oh also its 1/3 for protected bow and stern

[shamelesscreature]

 

depending on where it hits that is exactly how it works. Its 1/2 for unprotected bow and stern while it goes down to 0 for torpedo buldge(middle of ship) Oh also its 1/3 for protected bow and stern

 

You're completely wrong and you should have noticed that you're wrong just by looking at your torpedo damage stats in the post battle results. Such as the screenshots in this thread. You scored one torpedo hit for 10747 damage, which is obviously more than half of the torpedo's nominal damage and thus not possible according to your post. 

[Userext]

 

You're completely wrong and you should have noticed that you're wrong just by looking at your torpedo damage stats in the post battle results. Such as the screenshots in this thread. You scored one torpedo hit for 10747 damage, which is obviously more than half of the torpedo's nominal damage and thus not possible according to your post. 

 

i scored a hit against a cruiser

 

In case you didnt know cruiser torpedo protection=/=battleship torpedo protection.

 

[shamelesscreature]

In case you didn't know, it's exactly the same game mechanic for both ship classes. 

 

Mogami (17233 nominal torpedo damage) scoring a torpedo hit for 10073 damage on a BB: http://imgur.com/a/MXqWO

[Jethro_Grey]

 

Because if ship A is supposed to be better than ship B because it is a higher tier but it actually isnt there must be a problem. True, but it does not mean that the ship is the problem.

Basing your arguements on third party sites that only cover a small sample size isn't exactly making your arguements more believable. There's also the fact that there is usually a player involved that is playing the ship. And not all players, as mentioned before, are good with all ships or haven't adjusted yet and this directly influences the stats you waving around like Brexiters their pamphlets. Not to mention that quite a number free XPed their way to higher tiers without knowing jackshit how to play.

 

If yamato was worse than fuso then there would be a problem. In which twisted world does a ship that requires more money and more experience to unlock and is pointed as the next ship is worse than the previous one?  And yet, Shima isn't worse then kagero, it just plays differently. No more LR Torpwalls that give bad players Torpedohits. Which also influences stats

 

Granted you are hiding your stats and then claiming you played shimakaze is laughable. Why hide if you have got nothing to hide? I'm hiding my stats because it's common in discussions like this one, that someone pulls the "your stats say..." card as a clubbing tool, like a "My argument wins card" or like it means anything, which it does not. And it is rather a poor move and doesn't add anything to the discussion - in this particular case, it's rather funny.^^ 

 

This is like asking why does an upgraded bow has to be better than the normal bow. WELL ITS FREAKIN CALLED UPGRADE FOR A REASON

I played WoT recently, and i upgraded my Tier IV gun to a Tier V gun on my tank. I lost quite a bit on DPM and Alpha, but gained a small bit of Penetration.

In order to get the higher Tier gun, i had to upgrade my Turret, my tracks and while i was at it, my engine.

The turret has less armour, but is a bit sloped. what seems to a tradeoff means jackshit if a Tank one tier higher then me, equipped with a Gun with higher Penetration hits my turret.

My engine doesn't really give me more speed, as it has to compensate for added weight, plus the fact that it has a 5% higher chance to catch fire.

 

Upgraded it is.

 

Don't get me wrong here, i do understand what you trying to say, a higher tier ship should be better then a lower tier one and as everybody else, i agree.

You just need to take the players into account, and the fact that a small samplesize doesn't paint the whole picture ( insert Post-Brexit joke here).

 

I'd like to see how the Cleve performs in comparison to the Pensacola, and the Pensa to the NO, Minekaze to Mutsuki and Gneny to Ognevoi.

 

If you arent capable of understanding what an upgrade is and what its purpose could be you might aswell shut up because there is no point for me to talk with an ignorant like you. Seriously how does your brain let you post this

I do know what an upgrade is, but if the player can't play for crapeven the upgrade wouldn't do much.

The only exception were Mogami and Shimakze and both got finally and thankfully balanced. And they wont be buffed as it seems, the DEVs have better stats then you and are quite happy with it. ;)

 

you might aswell shut up because there is no point for me to talk with an ignorant like you. Seriously how does your brain let you post this

You seem to be a real people person which is something very admireable.

 

 

 

My replies in blue, because red is OP, pls nerf red.

You really do like to saturate your posts with pics, do you? ^^

 

 

[Userext]

In case you didn't know, it's exactly the same game mechanic for both ship classes. 

 

Mogami (17233 nominal torpedo damage) scoring a torpedo hit for 10073 damage on a BB: http://imgur.com/a/MXqWO

 

There is the subject of torpedo buldge penetration

 

A lower damage torpedo(like 12k max damage torp) would mean it doesnt carry enough explosive in it to penetrate. You can test it by taking a stock isokaze out or a minekaze. Yes this was confirmed before by developers. I remember the thread. Ev1n explained this issue in another thread. I did 103 damage(5 torps combined) to a new york with minekaze's torpedoes because it had torpedo buldge and sometimes torpedoes cant penetrate enough to get behind the buldge. You can search for it but it would be hard to find. 

[Userext]

 

My replies in blue, because red is OP, pls nerf red.

You really do like to saturate your posts with pics, do you? ^^

 

 

 

1-Free exped bs could be said for any of the ships.

2-Players havent adjusted yet? Thats just a claim that you made up. At least i ahve a third party website to support my claim. Surely people have the adjusting issue but that doesnt mean the ship is ok. What will you say when ships' stats dont change much in 3-4 months?

3-Why are you blaming the ship in the torp wall case? You arent going to make it balanced if you make it UP for a while because it was OP

4-Well what do you think the guy that complains about torps with %41 win rate and 10k damage in tier 9 BB has to say? Oh right i forgot since WG thought like you(stats dont matter) they nerfed IJNDDs and now since they dont look at the stats they think its okay(torpedo whiners shut their mouth? it must be okay!- even though those torpedo whiners were complaining about low tier DDs)

5-minekaze to mutsuki? Despite the fact people dont like mutsuki and find it a degrade? Despite the fact that in IJNDD line where torpedoes(according to today's WG and you) isnt supposed to be the main case?

6-Devs have better stats than us? The devs that only now realised artillerity system in wot is broken has better stats than us? The Devs that buffed battleships turn radius and rudder shift time in CBT have better stats than us(they backed off of course their stats showed a decrase at DD,CV exp and damage)?

7- Wouldnt it be more logical if devs dont throw the playstyles of IJNDDs left and right? How hard is it to make a line aim for one thing? Japanese BBs for example have long range firing ability. Wouldnti t be stupid if they put a 18km ranged IJNBB there?

[shamelesscreature]

 

There is the subject of torpedo buldge penetration

 

A lower damage torpedo(like 12k max damage torp) would mean it doesnt carry enough explosive in it to penetrate. You can test it by taking a stock isokaze out or a minekaze. Yes this was confirmed before by developers. I remember the thread. Ev1n explained this issue in another thread. I did 103 damage(5 torps combined) to a new york with minekaze's torpedoes because it had torpedo buldge and sometimes torpedoes cant penetrate enough to get behind the buldge. You can search for it but it would be hard to find. 

 

Umikaze (6800 torpedo damage) scoring a 6k hit on a Montana's bow, followed by 4k hits amidships: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpKYLOil2Kw#t=22m18

[Userext]

 

Umikaze (6800 torpedo damage) scoring a 6k hit on a Montana's bow, followed by 4k hits amidships: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpKYLOil2Kw#t=22m18

 

but thats 5 months ago. If i dont remember it wrong between september and june they did patches that had armour fixes and torpedo reworks

 

Edit: I m talking about the midship(torpedo buldge) part. Bow/stern is same for all teirs(0.9x) 

[ghostbuster_]

 

 

I mean DDs shouldnt as much as damage a BB can but seriously? Nearly doubled the amount? Thats telling you somethnig better listen to it

DDs affect the game by many aspects not just with the damage they do. spotting, smoking allies, capping, making enemy turn and show broadside to allies... but BBs can affect the game only by the damage they do. so it doesnt make any sense to compare DD and BB damage. 

[StringWitch]

Umikaze shouldn't have both 8km torp range and the most health for a T2 DD.

Wakatake–Minekaze are fine.

Mutsuki is... okay, as T6 DDs go, but they're all a step down tier-for-tier from their T5 counterparts. I would suggest that she should keep a configuration similar to below, with the four guns having the increased ROF of the 2x120mm HA guns her top hull receives.

 

Hatsuharu–Shimakaze just need usable gun ROF (and turret rotation plus 1-2km extra range?) to make up for the way they're now worse torpedo boats when that was their only advantage before.

[Spellfire40]

DDs affect the game by many aspects not just with the damage they do. spotting, smoking allies, capping, making enemy turn and show broadside to allies... but BBs can affect the game only by the damage they do. so it doesnt make any sense to compare DD and BB damage. 

Wich brings the DD exactly what? I dont Play a ship that brings other Players exp and credits in a game that requires myself to grind to reach higher Level ships. To many of the Things you descibe do not reward the DD Player and at T10 you can do the same Thing in a Gearing and not be Auto outguned at Close range when detected and outperformed whith Torpedos when they are suposed to be your main perc. If i wanted to Play suicide Torpedo boats i would have Chosen to Keep playing low Tir RU DDs. WG changing the playstyle of ships hit me twice on T9 with Taiho and Kagaro and i tell you ist no Fun reselecting your target 1st T10 ship 3times in a Grind game.