Japanese Destroyers need some love

[Userext]

title speaks for itself

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/31444-some-interesting-info-from-ru/page__st__4100__pid__1125034#entry1125034

 

Latest Q&A (28 June). Source

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1. Do you plan to do something regarding Japanese DD's and Tashkent ? Or have you decided they will remain as they are ?

A. They will remain as they are.

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2c. According to my tests, currently, only on Yamato it is worth taking torpedoes in the torpedo belt (damage on the belt : 2492). On all other ships, it's not worth it (damage : 3136 to 4440).

This happens as well in random battles. Every BB player moving to Yamato sails bow-on since the speed nerf to torpedoes make DD's useless against the class they are supposed to counter.

Did you decide to abandon the Rock, paper, scissors philosophy ? What is developer's thoughts about this situation and do they plan to make something about it ?

A. We are not abandoning the Rock, paper, scissors philosophy. In your observation, you forgot that torpedo belts reduce considerably the chance of flooding. If a BB has used his repair and receive a flooding, it could be terrible. Moreover, according to our statistics, currently, DD's aren't having a bad time, including at high tiers. We currently don't plan to change drastically torpedo, torpedo belts mechanics or the characteristics of these elements.

 

[Userext]

 

Meanwhile last two weeks

Icon	Name	Tier	Type	Nation	Battles	WR	Dmg	XP ▼	K/D	Sh☠	Pl☠	Srv	MBH	TH
		12345678910	DDCA/CLBBCV	JapanUSAUSSRUKGermanyPoland
	Khabarovsk	10	DD	USSR	4,612	54.38%	60,353	1,848	1.8	1.0	0.6	46%	39%	4%
	Gearing	10	DD	USA	7,978	52.02%	46,667	1,817	1.5	0.9	0.6	41%	35%	7%
	Udaloi	9	DD	USSR	5,309	56.17%	40,978	1,704	1.5	0.9	0.5	40%	41%	4%
	Fletcher	9	DD	USA	16,609	54.25%	36,711	1,562	1.4	0.9	0.9	38%	34%	6%
	Shimakaze	10	DD	Japan	13,671	48.83%	42,695	1,488	1.3	0.7	0.2	41%	40%	5%
	Sims	7	DD	USA	5,180	51.89%	22,265	1,487	1.0	0.7	0.5	31%	32%	5%
	Gremyashchy	5	DD	USSR	4,732	60.93%	34,152	1,411	2.2	1.2	0.3	45%	42%	7%
	Lo Yang	8	DD	Pan-Asia	3,535	50.92%	23,517	1,411	0.9	0.6	0.6	30%	35%	5%
	Anshan	6	DD	Pan-Asia	1,152	57.64%	28,229	1,387	1.4	0.9	0.3	36%	44%	7%
	Kagero	9	DD	Japan	17,603	49.75%	31,881	1,374	1.0	0.6	0.1	39%	42%	6%
	Błyskawica	7	DD	Poland	11,855	55.32%	29,178	1,365	1.3	0.8	0.1	36%	37%	5%

 

[Userext]

 

Meanwhile last two weeks

Icon	Name	Tier	Type	Nation	Battles	WR	Dmg	XP ▼	K/D	Sh☠	Pl☠	Srv	MBH	TH
		12345678910	DDCA/CLBBCV	JapanUSAUSSRUKGermanyPoland
	Benson	8	DD	USA	25,676	52.95%	27,231	1,319	1.1	0.7	0.4	33%	35%	5%
	Tashkent	8	DD	USSR	9,625	51.04%	24,577	1,282	0.8	0.6	0.3	27%	40%	4%
	Fubuki	8	DD	Japan	41,526	50.19%	27,288	1,257	0.9	0.6	0.2	33%	39%	5%
	Mahan	7	DD	USA	29,266	50.64%	20,449	1,194	0.8	0.6	0.1	24%	33%	5%
	Kiev	7	DD	USSR	16,591	51.88%	25,510	1,171	0.9	0.7	0.2	25%	38%	7%
	Hatsuharu	7	DD	Japan	32,654	49.84%	20,394	1,138	0.8	0.6	0.3	31%	40%	7%
	Farragut	6	DD	USA	21,540	51.07%	19,048	1,060	0.8	0.6	0.2	24%	32%	6%
	Ognevoi	6	DD	USSR	11,475	51.20%	19,547	1,045	0.8	0.6	0.2	26%	41%	9%
	Mutsuki	6	DD	Japan	21,943	50.33%	20,164	1,001	0.8	0.6	0.2	32%	42%	7%

 

[Userext]

 

This is me

[meyos90]

Then what about this video? 

 

 

Actually, nevermind. I don't play DDs. Buff the IJN DDs again so we can go back to world of torpedoes.

 

I'm pretty sure the IJN DDs just have a different playstyle.

[Ictogan]

Then what about this video? 

 

 

 

Actually, nevermind. I don't play DDs. Buff the IJN DDs again so we can go back to world of torpedoes.

 

I'm pretty sure the IJN DDs just have a different playstyle.

 

Imo the IJN DDs are quite a bit worse than the US ones. They can still perform well but they depend way too much on their enemies making mistakes.

[Userext]

Will you want a nerf to BBs too if i would have showed you hundreds of BB gameplay where they dominate?

 

YAY DAT ONE GUY DID SOMETIN DAT MAKES IT OP 

 

No! Considering that video was uploaded 3 days ago my 2 weeks chart is screaming out the fact that even though a battle like that happens shimakaze sucks

Besides its just 147k damage. I am capable of doing that in my minekaze(127k but meh close enough)

[Userext]

 

I mean DDs shouldnt as much as damage a BB can but seriously? Nearly doubled the amount? Thats telling you somethnig better listen to it

[meyos90]

 

Imo the IJN DDs are quite a bit worse than the US ones. They can still perform well but they depend way too much on their enemies making mistakes.

Like i said, i don't play DDs so i have to rely on what other people say, and if there is a consensus that IJN DDs are just worse, i guess that's just how it is for the average player.

But i think i should point out that the guy who uploaded the video have played pretty much the same number of games in both the Shimakaze and the Gearing and has pretty much the same winrate in both (in fact he has a slightly better winrate with the Shimakaze).

Could it be that the playstyle of the IJN DDs is not as straight forward as their USN counterparts and therefore harder to master?

Will you want a nerf to BBs too if i would have showed you hundreds of BB gameplay where they dominate?

 

YAY DAT ONE GUY DID SOMETIN DAT MAKES IT OP 

 

No! Considering that video was uploaded 3 days ago my 2 weeks chart is screaming out the fact that even though a battle like that happens shimakaze sucks

Besides its just 147k damage. I am capable of doing that in my minekaze(127k but meh close enough)

I never said DDs should be nerfed?

I'm pretty sure the 3 DD lines just play out differently, so obviously some people are going to be better with one line and not so good with another.

But like i said, i don't really care what flamu thinks if he is the only one with that opinion. If there is a consenus that IJN DDs are just not good enough, then that's probably how it is.

[Userext]

Like i said, i don't play DDs so i have to rely on what other people say, and if there is a consensus that IJN DDs are just worse, i guess that's just how it is for the average player.

But i think i should point out that the guy who uploaded the video have played pretty much the same number of games in both the Shimakaze and the Gearing and has pretty much the same winrate in both (in fact he has a slightly better winrate with the Shimakaze).

Could it be that the playstyle of the IJN DDs is not as straight forward as their USN counterparts and therefore harder to master?

I never said DDs should be nerfed?

I'm pretty sure the 3 DD lines just play out differently, so obviously some people are going to be better with one line and not so good with another.

But like i said, i don't really care what flamu thinks if he is the only one with that opinion. If there is a consenus that IJN DDs are just not good enough, then that's probably how it is.

 

IJNDDs' play style has a problem. They are one trick ponies and if you nerf them they will be worst. See the last 2 weeks charts telling something here. At average exp earned in last 2 weeks even tier 9 DDs passed shimakaze. People whined about torpedoes because they are lazy. They nerfed high tier DDs and didnt do much about low tier DDs. So why did those people stopped complaining? If there was anything wrong it was the low tier DDs. Because they advanced through the tiers and no longer care about DDs. Since they can just tunnel vision at high tiers without a problem

[Jethro_Grey]

IJN DDs are fine. They don't need any buffs in the lower tiers and sure as hell they don't need buffs in the high tiers.

Shimakaze is after the recent adjustments still a beast and people should stop asking for buffs.

 

Insert obvious <learn2play> meme here. ^^

 

Nerfing the long range torps and introducing Radar was a pretty good move to discourage lazy players to spam Torps and made the high tier games way more enjoyable.

It makes the IJN DD gameplay more attractive as it requires the player to be more cautious and aware. It's a thrilling experience, riding on the edge of the detection range and hoping the CA doesn't pop Radar or have it on cooldown.

It's so much more rewarding then spamming torps from safety and hoping that a few hit.

 

I honestly can't imagine why anyone would consider this kind of chicken playstyle to be fun.

I for one, have fun with my IJN DDs ( Minekaze, Fubuki, Kagero and Shima), so yeah, those ships weren't nerfed, they finally balanced them.

 

Now they need to fix the chicken playstyle lots of BBs drivers employ and high tier battles will become as fun as lower tiers are.

Basically removing standard battle was one step in the right direction, 'cause now a lot more player need to go for the cap if they want to win.

So if a BB chicken decides to stay at long range, he exposes himself to smart DD drivers and makes himself an easy kill.

 

Imma gonna have a lots of funs in my Shimas after ranked is over.

[Krizmuz]

 

 

Imma gonna have a lots of funs in my Shimas after ranked is over.

How many Shimas to you have? Give one pls

[Mayv]

The only thing the Shimakaze has over the Gearing is being able to put 15 torpedoes in the water at once.

 

WG nerfed the only thing the Shimakaze was good at. It was a one trick pony before the nerf, and now it has a broken leg.

[meyos90]

 

IJNDDs' play style has a problem. They are one trick ponies and if you nerf them they will be worst. See the last 2 weeks charts telling something here. At average exp earned in last 2 weeks even tier 9 DDs passed shimakaze. People whined about torpedoes because they are lazy. They nerfed high tier DDs and didnt do much about low tier DDs. So why did those people stopped complaining? If there was anything wrong it was the low tier DDs. Because they advanced through the tiers and no longer care about DDs. Since they can just tunnel vision at high tiers without a problem

 

Well if you actually watched flamus video, you would see that most of the damage with his shimakaze was with the guns. But yes, the video may not be your average game, but it still shows that the Shimakaze guns are still very useful.

[Userext]

 

 

I doubt its an L2P issue. did you check the chart i posted? For the last two weeks? Tier 9 freaking DDs from other nations have more average exp than shima. I m not saying bring back the spam of torps. I m saying buff shima in a way it is competent enough again. 

 

Icon	Name	Tier	Type	Nation	Battles	WR	Dmg	XP ▼	K/D	Sh☠	Pl☠	Srv	MBH	TH
		12345678910	DDCA/CLBBCV	JapanUSAUSSRUKGermanyPoland
	Khabarovsk	10	DD	USSR	4,612	54.38%	60,353	1,848	1.8	1.0	0.6	46%	39%	4%
	Gearing	10	DD	USA	7,978	52.02%	46,667	1,817	1.5	0.9	0.6	41%	35%	7%
	Udaloi	9	DD	USSR	5,309	56.17%	40,978	1,704	1.5	0.9	0.5	40%	41%	4%
	Fletcher	9	DD	USA	16,609	54.25%	36,711	1,562	1.4	0.9	0.9	38%	34%	6%
	Shimakaze	10	DD	Japan	13,671	48.83%	42,695	1,488	1.3	0.7	0.2	41%	40%	5%
	Sims	7	DD	USA	5,180	51.89%	22,265	1,487	1.0	0.7	0.5	31%	32%	5%
	Gremyashchy	5	DD	USSR	4,732	60.93%	34,152	1,411	2.2	1.2	0.3	45%	42%	7%
	Lo Yang	8	DD	Pan-Asia	3,535	50.92%	23,517	1,411	0.9	0.6	0.6	30%	35%	5%
	Anshan	6	DD	Pan-Asia	1,152	57.64%	28,229	1,387	1.4	0.9	0.3	36%	44%	7%
	Kagero	9	DD	Japan	17,603	49.75%	31,881	1,374	1.0	0.6	0.1	39%	42%	6%
	Błyskawica	7	DD	Poland	11,855	55.32%	29,178	1,365	1.3	0.8	0.1	36%	37%	5%

 

 

Honestly? If you cant understand that there is a problem here then we might aswell say everything in game is okay and everyone who has a problem is having L2P issues

[Userext]

 

Well if you actually watched flamus video, you would see that most of the damage with his shimakaze was with the guns. But yes, the video may not be your average game, but it still shows that the Shimakaze guns are still very useful.

 

I didnt say they arent. But shima vs any other DDs those guns arent good enough and it shouldnt be good enough. I dont know maybe buff shima's reload or buff its concealment. The ship is supposed to do the submarine's work and how is it going to do that with same concealment as gearing has? 

[Jethro_Grey]

Well, i consider Minekaze, Kamikaze R, Fujin, Fubuki and Kagero to be the Shimakazes of their respective tier.  ^^

While they are not as fear inducing as the Shima, they are as dangerous.

 

Shima has the Nimbus of being the Nemesis of the high Tiers, even more dangerous then the Yamato.

After the recent adjustments, a lot of folks consider her rather weak, yet she is still as powerfull as she was - just at shorter ranges. And this is a good thing.

 

And you don't have to watch Flamu, to realize what amazing guns those IJN Dds have.

The may not turn as fast as the US ones, but they pack a punch and they have way better arcs.

 

[Userext]

Well, i consider Minekaze, Kamikaze R, Fujin, Fubuki and Kagero to be the Shimakazes of their respective tier.  ^^

While they are not as fear inducing as the Shima, they are as dangerous.

 

Shima has the Nimbus of being the Nemesis of the high Tiers, even more dangerous then the Yamato.

After the recent adjustments, a lot of folks consider her rather weak, yet she is still as powerfull as she was - just at shorter ranges. And this is a good thing.

 

And you don't have to watch Flamu, to realize what amazing guns those IJN Dds have.

The may not turn as fast as the US ones, but they pack a punch and they have way better arcs.

 

 

She is still as powerfull? Then how the duck is she at lower average exp than TIER 9 DESTROYERS  not even pointing out that shima has the worst win rate of all DDs

 

 

This is you by the way

[S4h3L]

Shima had allways the worst winrate of T10 DDs so nothing new

[Ubertron_X]

Pro tip: Don't judge DDs by their damage done alone.

 

I dont care if Khabarovsk has 60k avarage damage while shooting easy targets like BB or CA, but I do care for a Gearing killing 1 to 2 enemy DD with only 46K average damage each game.

[Userext]

Pro tip: Don't judge DDs by their damage done alone.

 

I dont care if Khabarovsk has 60k avarage damage while shooting easy targets like BB or CA, but I do care for a Gearing killing 1 to 2 enemy DD with only 46K average damage each game.

 

well the chart is taking average experience earned to rank the ships sooooooooooooo yeah

 

[Jethro_Grey]

 

I doubt its an L2P issue. did you check the chart i posted? For the last two weeks? Tier 9 freaking DDs from other nations have more average exp than shima. I m not saying bring back the spam of torps. I m saying buff shima in a way it is competent enough again. 

 

Icon	Name	Tier	Type	Nation	Battles	WR	Dmg	XP ▼	K/D	Sh☠	Pl☠	Srv	MBH	TH
		12345678910	DDCA/CLBBCV	JapanUSAUSSRUKGermanyPoland
	Khabarovsk	10	DD	USSR	4,612	54.38%	60,353	1,848	1.8	1.0	0.6	46%	39%	4%
	Gearing	10	DD	USA	7,978	52.02%	46,667	1,817	1.5	0.9	0.6	41%	35%	7%
	Udaloi	9	DD	USSR	5,309	56.17%	40,978	1,704	1.5	0.9	0.5	40%	41%	4%
	Fletcher	9	DD	USA	16,609	54.25%	36,711	1,562	1.4	0.9	0.9	38%	34%	6%
	Shimakaze	10	DD	Japan	13,671	48.83%	42,695	1,488	1.3	0.7	0.2	41%	40%	5%
	Sims	7	DD	USA	5,180	51.89%	22,265	1,487	1.0	0.7	0.5	31%	32%	5%
	Gremyashchy	5	DD	USSR	4,732	60.93%	34,152	1,411	2.2	1.2	0.3	45%	42%	7%
	Lo Yang	8	DD	Pan-Asia	3,535	50.92%	23,517	1,411	0.9	0.6	0.6	30%	35%	5%
	Anshan	6	DD	Pan-Asia	1,152	57.64%	28,229	1,387	1.4	0.9	0.3	36%	44%	7%
	Kagero	9	DD	Japan	17,603	49.75%	31,881	1,374	1.0	0.6	0.1	39%	42%	6%
	Błyskawica	7	DD	Poland	11,855	55.32%	29,178	1,365	1.3	0.8	0.1	36%	37%	5%

 

 

Honestly? If you cant understand that there is a problem here then we might aswell say everything in game is okay and everyone who has a problem is having L2P issues

 

Nice chart there.

How many of those Shima players free XP ed there way to the "best of all DDs"? How many of them played in a way that employed the skill of "spam torps in ...ugh...lets say....oh, right, that direction..."?

How many of them gain much less XP because this kind of playstyle isn't possible anymore? And shouldn't have been possible in the first place.

How many of the better players haven't adjusted yet?

Those numbers may be an indicator, but not the whole picture, and i consider them to be an indicator that people need to adjust.

 

I also noticed that quite a number of players still play her as long range torp spammer, while other don't seem to realize the threat of Radar equipped CAs and are just sitting in the smoke and dying.

Give it more time, people may need more time to adjust to a more aggressive playstyle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jethro_Grey]

 

She is still as powerfull? Then how the duck is she at lower average exp than TIER 9 DESTROYERS  not even pointing out that shima has the worst win rate of all DDs

 

 

This is you by the way

 

Nice, i don't like what you posted, so lets post a stupid picture to show you that i don't like what you posted. Sweet.

 

Can you please point me to where it is written that a Tier X ships has to do more damge then a Tier IX?? Please? It has to be written somewhere.

Cause my Isokaze, Minkaze class DDs, do a lot more damage then my Mutsuki. And gain more XP. And have overall better stats.

 

WG, i want my moneys back, you selling a broken game!

[Userext]

Nice chart there.

How many of those Shima players free XP ed there way to the "best of all DDs"? How many of them played in a way that employed the skill of "spam torps in ...ugh...lets say....oh, right, that direction..."?

How many of them gain much less XP because this kind of playstyle isn't possible anymore? And shouldn't have been possible in the first place.

How many of the better players haven't adjusted yet?

Those numbers may be an indicator, but not the whole picture, and i consider them to be an indicator that people need to adjust.

 

I also noticed that quite a number of players still play her as long range torp spammer, while other don't seem to realize the threat of Radar equipped CAs and are just sitting in the smoke and dying.

Give it more time, people may need more time to adjust to a more aggressive playstyle.

 

So shima is according to you gearing 0.7 right? Why do you blame people about shima's stats but when gearing was underdog everyone blamed the ship.

 

 

 

Nice, i don't like what you posted, so lets post a stupid picture to show you that i don't like what you posted. Sweet.

 

Can you please point me to where it is written that a Tier X ships has to do more damge then a Tier IX?? Please? It has to be written somewhere.

Cause my Isokaze, Minkaze class DDs, do a lot more damage then my Mutsuki. And gain more XP. And have overall better stats.

 

WG, i want my moneys back, you selling a broken game!

 

I NEVER SAID A THING ABOUT DAMAGE NEVER

 

If a ship earns more exp than the ship above it then there is something damn wrong. 

I dont need to post that picture you show yourself with your words and your incompetent reading skills. 

 

Oh by the way incase you didnt notice i shold repeat again if a tier lower ship is better than a tier higher ship at stats(average exp most importantly) then there is something wrong there. One of them has to be UP or OP

[SV_Kompresor]

Buff them in any way you want, except their torpedoes....those are strong enough