Amagi cannot penetrate T9/10 anymore?

[cro_pwr]

OK, so whats up with this? Last few days whenever I was in a battle against t9/10 enemy battleships, my amagi did next to no damage to them. And no, I'm not talking about sniping them from 20km into the bow, I'm talking about 13-15km salvos into broadside that deal virtually no damage... Few battles ago I was literary spamming HE shells into a broadside Iowa from 13-14 km because I couldn't deal any real damage to him... (getting 10k HE salvos)
Anyone else experiencing things like that?

 

btw example from my last game (as noted, basicly all of shots were fired into broadsiding enemies, not angled ones.)

 

Izumo - 16 shells hit from ~13 km into broadside  (even incapacitated his gun because i was aiming below his turrets) - result: 20k damage

Iowa - 13 shells hit from 14-15 km into broadside - result: 7.9 k damage

 

Iowa - 3 shells hit from 14 km into broadside - result -2.5k damage

 

 

[Slauter]

I've started shooting HE to T9 BB's with Nagato already. Simply doesn't wanna go through, that's my experience. Was it 30% chance of fire? That's working.

[daveelmo]

Dunno,  i regularly citadel Iowa's with both Nagato and Amigi.

[cro_pwr]

I've started shooting HE to T9 BB's with Nagato already. Simply doesn't wanna go through, that's my experience. Was it 30% chance of fire? That's working.

 

Well, I'm pretty aware of the fact that I wont pierce bow on Yamato in Amagi, but Izumo 13km away showing broadside? heck, my Des Moines is doing more reliable damage with Ap from that distance... So yea, I'm really scratching my head in that moments and thinking like "should I REALLY switch to HE, or I'm just unlucky?"

[StuntMan0369]

If you have a replay of it, that'd be great. Simply saying they are broadside isn't conclusive enough to determine a problem. Most of the time it's just BB RNG doing it's thing, but never in either the Nagato, Amagi or even the Izumo now have I had problems with Iowa's or Yamato's (Except when they are perfectly angled, then of course they're a pain).

[cro_pwr]

If you have a replay of it, that'd be great. Simply saying they are broadside isn't conclusive enough to determine a problem. Most of the time it's just BB RNG doing it's thing, but never in either the Nagato, Amagi or even the Izumo now have I had problems with Iowa's or Yamato's (Except when they are perfectly angled, then of course they're a pain).

 

just watched the replay myself. few of the shots were were from 17km (on Iowa), and some were hitting not-so-important areas, dealing low damage. but some of them bounced of at slight angle or dealt low damage anyway.

I mean, if you have more insight, please do tell, I'll gladly listen (you can't see everything in a fight, or even while watching replay yourself ). bb shootout starts at ~5-6 min into the game iirc.

 

And actually I had problems with Amagi penetrating Yamatos broadside from higher distances (not superstructure ofc)

 

http://wowreplays.com/Replay/10162

[StuntMan0369]

Hmm, looking at that replay you linked, I see nothing irregular about it. Every shot that hit flat did exactly as expected; either regular pen or overpen if hitting the weaker sections of armour. Most of the non-penetrating hits were against the armoured deck, where the shots are coming in at too shallow an angled to be able to pen. You also hit that Izumo's turrets a fair few times, which is one of it's most armoured sections (not to mention the angling of a cylindrical shape).

 

In short, most of the shots were too high. Had they hit lower, you'd probably have got more pens and in the case of that Izumo, probably a citadel or two.

[cro_pwr]

Hmm, looking at that replay you linked, I see nothing irregular about it. Every shot that hit flat did exactly as expected; either regular pen or overpen if hitting the weaker sections of armour. Most of the non-penetrating hits were against the armoured deck, where the shots are coming in at too shallow an angled to be able to pen. You also hit that Izumo's turrets a fair few times, which is one of it's most armoured sections (not to mention the angling of a cylindrical shape).

 

In short, most of the shots were too high. Had they hit lower, you'd probably have got more pens and in the case of that Izumo, probably a citadel or two.

 

yea, as said, didn't manage to catch where every shot landed, I saw only 1 landing on Izumos turret and incapacitating him. but as said, its not first time I'm frustrated about that, hence the topic. last time I actually managed to wreck t9/10 BB in Amagi was from ~13 km. anything further and damage is just wanky.

[StuntMan0369]

 

yea, as said, didn't manage to catch where every shot landed, I saw only 1 landing on Izumos turret and incapacitating him. but as said, its not first time I'm frustrated about that, hence the topic. last time I actually managed to wreck t9/10 BB in Amagi was from ~13 km. anything further and damage is just wanky.

 

Well, once you start to increase the range, the angle at which the shells hit the armour become rather awkward. The shells are no longer shallow enough to reliably pen the belt armour, but at the same time are not coming in steep enough to go through the deck. This is what's called the 'Immunity Zone' (IZ). Now, you are obviously not immune to damage, that's just not possible, but the angle at which AP shells come in is so large on both deck and belt, that it's rare to get anything more than a regular pen or two. Couple that with good angling and high tier BB's are a nightmare to shoot at.

[Ictogan]

Haven't played my Amagi in a while, but haven't noticed anything like this on my Izumo which has exactly the same guns. Still able to citadel Yamatos, Montanas, etc. with it.

[Poster_2015]

Well maybe BB players will finally find their "1" button. Honestly I find it almost as bad to shoot only AP in BBs as it is to use only HE. Recently I even made a few "test" games with my Montana and Yamato - i used HE exclusively. The results were surprisingly close to using AP. Honestly a typical Yamato/Montana HE deals pretty similar damage to AP non citadel hit. It deals more in case of the overpens. And ~18-20% fire chance per shell is probably a bit more then the chance for citadel - and around same damage results from it. So it ends up being similar - higher if you set things on fire that dont have repair, lower otherwise.

 

By no means though I say that you should play using HE only - those were "test" games as I said. If they show nice broadsides and otherwise good targets - AP are great. But the point is, I started to use "HE when in doubt, AP when i can expect good results", rather then default to AP and only use HE on DDs like most BB players tend to. 

 

 

Edit - @ Ictogan, Izumo has nothing like Amagi guns. When stock it used to have worse ammo, but i believe it was changed (buffed). But right now (at least from hull B, but i think on A too), it uses same shells, but 11% longer guns. In fact Izumo has fastest BB shells out of all 16 inchers by a good margin, they come much less steeply then Amagi/Iowa shells, not to even compare it with NC mortars. Izumo is actually much better at brawling due to that, compared to all the other Jap BBs. It has better belt and better close range guns then Iowa - and at distance while it definitely outperforms Iowa in accuracy (even with all the new modules, which cost Iowa ROF), the shells come at very bad angle and the "Immunity Zone" kicks in - on the other hand Izumo with huge flat deck is a perfect target for plunging fire. 

[Marducas91]

I was a bit reluctant on answering to this topic but i have played a couple of games in mine amagi and thats What i have noticed: a lot more pen hits, 20 k damage volleys on other bbs are quite frequent, but a lot less citadells... Even on bradside cruisers no matter the tier

Not to talk about bow in iowas or NC

Ti might be me, coming from a intesive ranked session with dds an my myoko but my aiming is the same as always

[T0rad]

in my nagato i penned citadel of IOWA and even tirpitz yesterday, i dont think there is an AP issue. Offtopic: Is there any upside of Iowa over Izumo? apart from AA which is... well not a lot ov CVs in game these days. 

[cro_pwr]

in my nagato i penned citadel of IOWA and even tirpitz yesterday, i dont think there is an AP issue. Offtopic: Is there any upside of Iowa over Izumo? apart from AA which is... well not a lot ov CVs in game these days. 

 

distance, angle etc gives a lot more information in this topic.

As I said, I can wreck Iowa, if hes dumb enough to show me broadside 13 km away from me.

17 km away from me and the damage I get is simply retarded. Now, we all know BBs are RNG machines and thats why I asked on forum, am I just getting bad dispersion, bad damage rolls, bad whatever, or is it a normal occurance nowadays.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Amagi is no different for me. You probably had one of those days where nothing goes your way. All BB seem to fluctuate somewhat. Play long enough and you'll get a game where you score a Devastating Strike from the first salvo and everything you touch will turn to citadel hits...

[T0rad]

 

distance, angle etc gives a lot more information in this topic.

As I said, I can wreck Iowa, if hes dumb enough to show me broadside 13 km away from me.

17 km away from me and the damage I get is simply retarded. Now, we all know BBs are RNG machines and thats why I asked on forum, am I just getting bad dispersion, bad damage rolls, bad whatever, or is it a normal occurance nowadays.

 

That might be the immunity zone. When your fire is not plunging yet, but does not have the power to penetrate side armour. In my Iowa i dont get penned very often (i obviously try very hard to avoid it) and im not very scared of amagi as i can put a lot more of harm to her than the other way around. And by the way, at that distance, try to aim for the turrets and magazines, not engine room I know my post i very vague, but i dont observe same issues you do.