puxflacet Players 1,694 posts 3,784 battles Report post #326 Posted August 5, 2016 i'm starting to believe that konig will receive the historical hull eventually because stats for stock konig are exactly historical Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ST-EU] Trainspite Supertester, Players, Sailing Hamster 1,920 posts 4,621 battles Report post #327 Posted August 5, 2016 Well, the Japanese BBs never started with their historical stock hull so... I'm guessing the German BBs will in time, though I wonder why they have not given Kaiser hers, considring they modeled it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DREAD] 1MajorKoenig Players 13,110 posts 7,885 battles Report post #328 Posted August 5, 2016 i'm starting to believe that konig will receive the historical hull eventually because stats for stock konig are exactly historical That would be at least a silver line on the horizon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DREAD] 1MajorKoenig Players 13,110 posts 7,885 battles Report post #329 Posted September 13, 2016 Dear all, we all now had the opportunity to play the German BB line and for me it is time to wrap-up this thread. I learnded quite a lot about the game designers, the game itself and the People playing it. Let's start with a quick review of the ships with regards to their "what-if-modernizations": T3 - NASSAU: WG implemented her pretty accurate including her characteristics (fasr firing but small main calibre and good armor) - 0% Fantasy T4 - KAISER: my biggest issue within the line. WG implemented a ship that shall represent a WW2 Version of the Kaiser Dreadnought heavily modernized in the 30s. As above neither the choice to modernize her and use in WW2 nor the modernization elements themselves are convincing for me. Plus it is probably the most ugly Fantasy product WG ever created (maybe on par with the L/100 Panther tank in WOT...) - 75% Fantasy (the ship can barely be recognized - only the turret Placement and main guns remain historical) T5 - KÖNIG: heavily modernized Version of the König Dreadnought. However the difference to T4 is that KÖNIGs would most likely have received a modernization had they survived. Furthermore the Fantasy modificsation Looks more plausible here. - 50% Fantasy T6 - BAYERN: The historical Bayern Hull is modelled along a Fantasy Version which Looks ugly but at least it is plausible that These ships would have been modernized. - 50% Fantasy T7 - GNEISENAU: as known the planned upgrade with longer hull and 38cm guns, As the conversion was planned I think it is fine to use. However, it's part of a fine Money grab move as everyone had to buy the historical ship with 28cm guns as a premium. The SCHARNHORST clearly proves that the smaller guns are highly competitive on T7 - the rest is Marketing. 25% Fantasy T8 - BISMARCK: no complaints here - 0% Fantasy T9 - H-CLASS: even being a paper design the H-Class was actually layd down but cancelled later. The WG Version mixes some elements from H-class (H39) with later proposals (eg. 42cm guns) but the result is a fairly good representation of the H-class proposals I would say. Given the fact there is no real ship to fill this Tier I think it is a good solution here. - 25% Fantasy T10 - GROSSER KURFURST: a WG napkin drawing using H-class elements and other never-to-be proposals (triple turret proposals for Russia). Pretty much a Hindenburg in the BB line - 100% Fantasy Makes for me 325%/800% ~ 40% Fantasy. And what did I learn? a lot of People don't care about the history of ships - although there seems to be a Group of enthusiasts WG has a vague perception that the game should roughly fit into a 30/40s Setting If TUCCI says we can Play stock WW1 hulls it doesn't mean that there are any WW1 stock hulls or that he intends to gives us a WW1 premium BB. WoWS is not a good place for Dreadnoughts. It is in fact more "WORLD OF WORLD WAR 2 SHIPS" ;-) And what's left / further reading? KÖNIG has her historical stats in stock but a Fantasy model... ? No clue why that is but hey.... Release a proper T4 ship with T3 range and Dispersion on T3 and wonder why it might be better than the other T3 ships (or don't talk about it at all) - http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/93536-premium-ship-review-konig-albert/ A more balanced power Progression for low tiers (received rather lukewarm reception by the community) http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/56439-wows1-tiering-system-power-progression/ What about Stock hulls? http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/56307-bbs-stock-hulls-initiave/ And finally - a follow up thread without the rant but to think about what would have been a reasonable modernization concept instead? http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/58818-ger-bbs-a-look-at-the-fantasy-upgrades/ Thanks all for discussing and see you at the High Seas! 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puxflacet Players 1,694 posts 3,784 battles Report post #330 Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) T8 - BISMARCK: no complaints here - 0% Fantasy wait...i believe only stock bismarck is historical. second upgrade adds some fantasy aa...right? EDIT: or is the second hull according to tirpitz? im not sure now... Edited September 13, 2016 by puxflacet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DREAD] 1MajorKoenig Players 13,110 posts 7,885 battles Report post #331 Posted September 14, 2016 Tbh I don't know. The general appearance looks good to me. A couple of additional AA guns wouldn't spoil the ship for me. As it is the Bismarck class and not the ship itself I guess they looked at all upgrades including the ones for Tirpitz? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BFG] anve8004 Players 87 posts 7,554 battles Report post #332 Posted September 29, 2016 WoWS is not a good place for Dreadnoughts. It is in fact more "WORLD OF WORLD WAR 2 SHIPS" ;-) Couldn't be said better! Looks like they simply transfered tier mechanics form WOT without any research or the're just simply ignoring major historical facts .. meaning that majoriy of current ship tears are in fact placed into WW2-era. In WOT, each tear reprsents the era of the tank development and how they progressesd in time, meaning that most of them are WW2 as in WW1 tanks roughly existed and did not played any major role. On the other hand, in Warships, the majority of ship fleets (dreadnoughts / superdreadnoughts ) has been built in eraly years of 20th century and were well established during WW1. In fact a lot of naval powers like Royal Navy had far greated number of warships in the service during that time then during WW2.. Not mentioning imposant WW1-era battles like Jutland. Something like that never happened in WW2 i such a great scale. So .. what do we expect from Royal navy to fit in the Wargaming WOT-copied-tiering-model ? ..A lot of fantasy upgrades and paper-fantasy high-tear ships that never existed.. Like German BBs. Anyway.. I believe they realize that WW1 models are very expensive for the modelling / development.. thats the reason (IMHO) they totally skipped the WW1 hulls for German BBs, which is, ofcourse little bit sad as they used to be really beautifull ships. Dear Wargaming, this game need a lot of redesign.. I hope you are now more then aware of this (while you progressing with other nations) that majority of the ships simply dones't fit to current tiering concept, please change it or rename the game to World of WW2 Warships. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Comodoro_Allande Players 2,240 posts 8,469 battles Report post #333 Posted September 29, 2016 Anyway.. I believe they realize that WW1 models are very expensive for the modelling / development.. thats the reason (IMHO) they totally skipped the WW1 hulls for German BBs, which is, ofcourse little bit sad as they used to be really beautifull ships. This is very akward, we haven´t got historical hulls for Kaiser and König (well, the König Albert as stock Kaiser, but is still missing, why WG ), but the Bayern magically have the WW1 hull, at almost the same time they removed WW1 Kongou's hull Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DREAD] 1MajorKoenig Players 13,110 posts 7,885 battles Report post #334 Posted September 29, 2016 Yeah, I detect a slight tendency to move entirely away from WW1 ships (Kongo lost her battlecruiser hull in 0.5.11). My perception is that WG had no clear concept to begin with, didn't consider that the age of warships is NOT WW2 only and jinxed themselves by calibrating the power progression using the USN snd IJN, two insignificant forces by the time real battleship battles occurred. For comparison: during the WW2 pacific campaign there were 2 (!) battleship vs. battleship encounters in total. In fact the age of warships was already over - being the age of air power. It is a pity how WG wasted this great opportunity to create a game that models naval warfare from 1900 to 1950 with focusdong only on a relatively short period that is over represented anyway. And yes, Royal Navy will be the exact same story. However, if you do appreciate the good old age of dreadnought warfare, please sign up here: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/62356-dreadnought-era-appreciation-thread/page__gopid__1324707#entry1324707 Cheers and see you at the High Seas! Preferably in a dreadnought (stock if you dare :-)) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
