Secondary Guns, Team Killing

[ExquisiteCoochie]

So I took my Kirov out for a spot of play today when I defended C from 2 Cruisers with an Allie Omaha... I clipped our Omaha with 1 AP round doing 410 damage to him, I wrote sorry and continued to assault Torp Bombers flying in while maneuvering to clear the gap heading to B.

 

Then the dreaded "We've sunk an Allie" came through my headphones, I was like wtf.... I only used AP and I never fired torps... I then waited and played on to secure B and defend to win the match. I checked my Post game results and to my shock I saw this

 

 

 

I was like what the hell, I saw the amount of damage done to my Allie in the Omaha but it sated 2094 damage :/ I then glanced down and saw that a Secondary gun had hit him with HE doing 2 x 462 damage then the fires for 1192.

It was not like I played like a donkey I played on and despite the Secondary screwing me over for a team kill I came top of our team.

 

 

Has this happened to you? I do not fancy being nerfed and bullied and branded a Team killer for something that was out of my control!

 

[SerPurr]

Don't worry, turning pink is the new grey. Just play a few games and it will go away. If you're really bothered by it, then switch your secondaries off whenever there's an ally around you.

[Corvi]

I had a low HP DD captain that sailed between my guns blazing Nagato and an enemy today. Not much to say than he got shredded in seconds by the aux. fire and i turned pink too. Secs should be taken out of the "team damage" thingie as you have no way to controll them let alone deliberately fire them at allies.

[th3freakie]

Don't worry, turning pink is the new grey. Just play a few games and it will go away. If you're really bothered by it, then switch your secondaries off whenever there's an ally around you.

 

And turn off AA with enemy bombers around? Doesn't seem worth the risk to me.

 

Would it be so hard to make the Secondary AI not fire at friendlies? I assume the PVE bots don't fire at each-other either.

[piet11111]

I had a low HP DD captain that sailed between my guns blazing Nagato and an enemy today. Not much to say than he got shredded in seconds by the aux. fire and i turned pink too. Secs should be taken out of the "team damage" thingie as you have no way to controll them let alone deliberately fire them at allies.

 

Exactly and imo the ability to team damage using the secondaries should be removed.

[ExquisiteCoochie]

yeah just seems odd that they allow this, I will accused of team killing from something that is not under my control, There was 2 CV's and 1 was continuously targeting me so I could not turn of AA and secondaries. I wish they would sort this out.. I can understand he used his repair to dodge torps from the Karl that we engaged. So i felt to blame despite the Secondaries not being under my control. 

[SerPurr]

 

And turn off AA with enemy bombers around? Doesn't seem worth the risk to me.

 

Would it be so hard to make the Secondary AI not fire at friendlies? I assume the PVE bots don't fire at each-other either.

 

Ofc it's a bit of tongue in cheek. It's stupid and we all know it but what can I do besides offering how to avoid any more of the same right now.

You're wrong about the bots btw, they kill eachother all the time 

 

[TheCinC]

I completely agree.

Turning off your secondaries can be a death sentence in some cases, on average you will still be helping your nearby allies more than you are hurting them.

Moreover, it makes no sense, are our AI gunners blind and stupid?

Their shells are all over the place and they don't care they hit an allied ship.

Someone should be court-martialed over this. 

 

In all seriousness, something you have no control over, should at least have no effect on your teammates.

Just set secondary damage to 0 when hitting allied ships, just as they have adjusted damage from allied torpedoes.

[praetor_jax]

There should be two separate keys for disabling AA and disabling secondaries.

[th3freakie]

 

Ofc it's a bit of tongue in cheek. It's stupid and we all know it but what can I do besides offering how to avoid any more of the same right now.

You're wrong about the bots btw, they kill eachother all the time 

 

 

Didn't know that. Then secondaries should just do 0 damage to friendlies. 

 

I know we can take steps to avoid the situation, especially by turning them off, but that crosses the line between being careful with your actions and having to take actions so the game doesn't sabotage you, and that is entirely different. Bad torpedo drops? Sure, my fault. I chose to click "fire" on those. Bad secondaries? Entirely the game's fault, even if I could take an action to avoid/minimize the risk.

[Pekoe_Darjeeling]

 I clipped our Omaha with 1 AP round doing 410 damage to him, I wrote sorry and continued to assault Torp Bombers flying in while maneuvering to clear the gap heading to B.

 

Then the dreaded "We've sunk an Allie" came through my headphones, I was like wtf.... I only used AP and I never fired torps... 

 

Replay pls.

 

nvm. I see it was secondaries now. Didn't expect that...

[Unintentional_submarine]

 

Replay pls.

 

For the laughs?

The screenshots show plenty to confirm his story. One regular AP hit, two secondary HE hits and the fires. The AP hit matches up with an overpenetration for Kirov's guns (4100 max -> 410 on overpen).

[Spellfire40]

 

Didn't know that. Then secondaries should just do 0 damage to friendlies. 

 

I know we can take steps to avoid the situation, especially by turning them off, but that crosses the line between being careful with your actions and having to take actions so the game doesn't sabotage you, and that is entirely different. Bad torpedo drops? Sure, my fault. I chose to click "fire" on those. Bad secondaries? Entirely the game's fault, even if I could take an action to avoid/minimize the risk.

 

​Then so should do Torpedo. The window were a friendly gets so Close that he is in danger were he can be hit is way more rare than predicting every ships Action in your Team for the next munute. If DDs are suposed to calculate that it should be MUCH more easy for a BB to Switch off his sec /AA for a few seconds. Teamdamage or Teamkill is never excusable no matter the source and if a BB dont stay in sniping view for 2 Minutes when his activ Actions are every 30 sec it should be VERY easy to prevent. Being a BB skiper dont means you can or should Igore the minimap and lack any situational awareness.

[TheCinC]

 

​Then so should do Torpedo.

 

No.

 

If just for the simple reason that it would lead to people launching torpedoes without any restriction.

There is a brilliant vid by Eurobeat that beautifully illustrates my point:

This is beautiful to watch, he shelters behind a CV, uses it as cover to get closer to a BB, torps the CV and then the BB as well.

If torps didn't do damage to friendly ships, people would be launching torps as soon as they could reload them and not bother with anything else.

I play DD a lot and I have learned (the hard way, sorry) NEVER to torp from behind.

Torps are faster than anything, so if your allies are not ahead of you, you can more or less torp all you want in that direction.

If they are, they often are too close anyway, so you wait for them to die and then torp away.

It really is not much of a restriction.

Torps are, like main guns, something you can control and should be careful with, but you can't even target an allied ship with your secondaries, there is no reason for them to hit the allied BB 2 km away.

[Spellfire40]

 

No.

 

If just for the simple reason that it would lead to people launching torpedoes without any restriction.

There is a brilliant vid by Eurobeat that beautifully illustrates my point:

This is beautiful to watch, he shelters behind a CV, uses it as cover to get closer to a BB, torps the CV and then the BB as well.

If torps didn't do damage to friendly ships, people would be launching torps as soon as they could reload them and not bother with anything else.

I play DD a lot and I have learned (the hard way, sorry) NEVER to torp from behind.

Torps are faster than anything, so if your allies are not ahead of you, you can more or less torp all you want in that direction.

If they are, they often are too close anyway, so you wait for them to die and then torp away.

It really is not much of a restriction.

Torps are, like main guns, something you can control and should be careful with, but you can't even target an allied ship with your secondaries, there is no reason for them to hit the allied BB 2 km away.

 And if it wouldnt do anything to a friendly all it would to is 0 damage for the DD. But that wasnt my Point my Point was if a DD should and for the most time can predict were frindly are in the next 30 sek to 1 Min a BB can do so too in the very few situations someone sails into the danger Zone for secondary friendly fire wich is MUCH smaler.

[TheCinC]

 And if it wouldnt do anything to a friendly all it would to is 0 damage for the DD. But that wasnt my Point my Point was if a DD should and for the most time can predict were frindly are in the next 30 sek to 1 Min a BB can do so too in the very few situations someone sails into the danger Zone for secondary friendly fire wich is MUCH smaler.

 

Apples and oranges.

Like I said, you have control over torpedoes, where and when you fire them.

Secondaries is on/off and prioritize and you can't even click on allied ships.

It makes no sense for a shot to go so wild to hit an unintended target that is still pretty far away.

Sometimes it seems to me the RN is secretly already in the game and has taken over every ship, giving the crew its daily tot of rum and then some.

By which I mean that with AA on 'high alert' they shoot randomly in the sky and secondaries blast everywhere and barely hit the enemy ship practically alongside, but as it turns out, they can hit allied ships?

That kind of behavior makes little sense.

When I am engaged in a life or death battle with a DD as a slow turning battleship (looking at you HMS Warspite), I am NOT going to shut down my secondaries.\

That DD will just sink me and then sink someone else if he is any good.

As for knowing when someone is nearby enough for me to turn off my secondaries, that is ludicrous.

When you fire torpedoes, you are usually already aware where your friendlies are, you fire them once in a while, they have a cooldown and you keep an eye on your surroundings and otherwise, you're not doing it right.

But when you are dodging and weaving and desperately trying to shoot a DD, there is no time to check if that allied cruiser made it to within 5 km or whatever your secondary range is.

Never mind if there are also enemy planes nearby, making an attack.

I don't need yet another thing to keep track of.

[Ferry_25]

TheCinc: that clip is hilarical! I'm going to try that too!

[Spuggy]

The hilarity is that secondaries seem to be better at team killing than killing enemies!! 

[TheCinC]

The hilarity is that secondaries seem to be better at team killing than killing enemies!! 

 

Also not true.

Secondaries can be devastating at close range, especially to DDs.

You do need to target the ship you intend to shoot.

Mikasa's secondaries are easily better than her main guns, too bad she is a tub of fail in every other aspect as well.

[Spuggy]

 

Also not true.

Secondaries can be devastating at close range, especially to DDs.

You do need to target the ship you intend to shoot.

Mikasa's secondaries are easily better than her main guns, too bad she is a tub of fail in every other aspect as well.

 

I am a member of the Mikasa Appreciation Society. I know how to use secondaries.

 

I was trying to prove a point that secondaries are a bit "meh" in most cases. Some ships literally have another ship welded to them in the form of secondaries but it never really feels that way.

The Mikasa has a St. Louis bolted to each side of it.

The Tirpitz and the Warspite has a Cleveland bolted to it.

The Cleveland itself has a Tashkent bolted to it but it never feels like it does.

Other examples abound.....

 

However, these weapons are more or less a side show unless you use extreme examples with extreme builds and even then they have fairly poor performance (Yamato excluded).

[kennydbt]

 

Exactly and imo the ability to team damage using the secondaries should be removed.

 

it should but they not do it it take time ans that mean cash to them

 

[kennydbt]

 

I am a member of the Mikasa Appreciation Society. I know how to use secondaries.

 

I was trying to prove a point that secondaries are a bit "meh" in most cases. Some ships literally have another ship welded to them in the form of secondaries but it never really feels that way.

The Mikasa has a St. Louis bolted to each side of it.

The Tirpitz and the Warspite has a Cleveland bolted to it.

The Cleveland itself has a Tashkent bolted to it but it never feels like it does.

Other examples abound.....

 

However, these weapons are more or less a side show unless you use extreme examples with extreme builds and even then they have fairly poor performance (Yamato excluded).

 

[kennydbt]

As forum sorry for the quote with no comment.

 

But you are right ALL secondary gun are well under powered all seam to have muppets shooting them.

 

It would be nice so they only shoot at the ship you had targated and not fire pasted or at your team but I do not see this happening ever.

[YukiEiriKun]

I remember seeing in some patchnote or WG forum post that they already did something to secondaries so that they would not shoot friendly ships.

 

Or was it just a dream? I can haz a dream? What?

[ExquisiteCoochie]

I remember seeing in some patchnote or WG forum post that they already did something to secondaries so that they would not shoot friendly ships.

 

Or was it just a dream? I can haz a dream? What?

 

A dream it must have been as I was in a nightmare yesterday. 

 

I love the message WG gives you when you get rid of the PINK name.... In future do not shoot allied ships..... I wish they would fix the secondaries as it has happened to me, but how many other people are getting punished because WG gives the Secondary guns under the control of drunk kids...

 

I hope they fix this, being punished for something you cannot control is unfair.