AP working as intended?!

[TheBigLanowski]

Hello fellow captains!

 

Today I got into a knife fight in my Donskoi with a Ibuki. There I experienced some wired things. I load AP since he was going full broadside and I aimed for the citadel under the funnels and under the turrets but was unable to hit them. I only got very low dmg rolls and all in all only 2 citadels. But they felt like luck and not like I managed to hit them because of skillfull play...

AP feels very wanky and not like before. Going broadside was at close range a death sentence if AP was involved. Now I feel its better if you go broadside on to a battleship than showing him front or rear... I take citadels from the strangest angles. The game feels more than a game of russian roulette... But back to the problem. I tried to citadel not moving cruisers in the trainingsroom and at close range it was almost impossible! Like in my fight with the Ibuki, you hit the right spots but the dmg is not there.

I captured the whole encounter on video and put it up to youtube, so you can watch it and we can discuss this. Am I missing something? Do you have the same feeling that AP went from the skill rounds to the luck rounds? Is this working as intended?? I want some answers! Because I loose the will to play with things happening like this...

 

So I'm waiting for your answers and hope that we have a nice discussion about this!

 

Cheers BlackSkull

 

[ColonelPete]

Looks like you were aiming too low and too far in front.

[Msiiek]

Citadel overpen. Aiming too low is replay bug. You need to hit citadel with the help of water as extra armor. Some kind of noob protection so you don't destroy broadside noobs in one salvo.

[mtm78]

Looks like you were aiming too low and too far in front.

 

Got to admit this was my thoughts as well ( well, tbh it was a bit more harsh then you put it ). 

 

Citadel overpen. Aiming too low is replay bug. You need to hit citadel with the help of water as extra armor. Some kind of noob protection so you don't destroy broadside noobs in one salvo.

 

I'm sorry but on almost all salvo's I see the shells hit the water way to far from the ship? 

 

edit: so far in front they have no chance of traveling all the way under water to the ship. You can see this for yourself by actually counting the hits vs shots fired. 

[Carnivore81]

Thats why overpen Citadel is BS . It's supports poor play and punish good play.But i can say for sure if overpen is the Problem here . Dont know the ship well. But seen such think in Moskva a few times.  

[TheBigLanowski]

Citadel overpen. Aiming too low is replay bug. You need to hit citadel with the help of water as extra armor. Some kind of noob protection so you don't destroy broadside noobs in one salvo.

 

Yeah but it is very difficult, I tried it in the trainingsroom and the shells more often sink/disappear. This encounter was just ridiculous.

[Carnivore81]

 

Yeah but it is very difficult, I tried it in the trainingsroom and the shells more often sink/disappear. This encounter was just ridiculous.

Yep the room for aiming lower is actually really small with CA AP. Tried it with Moskva. Didnt help much (aiming lower.) Lot shell just dont even Hit.

[TheBigLanowski]

edit: so far in front they have no chance of traveling all the way under water to the ship. You can see this for yourself by actually counting the hits vs shots fired. 

 

But I aimed at the waterline, so the shots going way to short are a matter of RNG don't they? Got this problem as well in a Hipper at 2km on not moving targets, the shoots fly how they want.

[kennydbt]

I have found the both HE and AP have changed a lot and are not working well. also it could just of been your time to lose so the game rigs your damaged.

 

I have found that some time when your on win you will do lost of damage when your a lose you can hit the same area of the ship and do no damage or very low. AP seam to bounce or do 1K damage on a lose. on a win it like 5k min damage.

[Msiiek]

 

Got to admit this was my thoughts as well ( well, tbh it was a bit more harsh then you put it ). 

 

 

I'm sorry but on almost all salvo's I see the shells hit the water way to far from the ship? 

 

edit: so far in front they have no chance of traveling all the way under water to the ship. You can see this for yourself by actually counting the hits vs shots fired. 

 

Even if he aimed wrong, too much below, the shells that got bad dispersion should hit the citadel. What i mean is at close range you can't hit a citadel unles you can overmatch angled armor then you can do it easily. Whats wrong? best protection at really close distance is going to be full broadside so shots overpen becouse if you angle you are much more likely to get citadeled. Noobs rewarded, and the players that angle are punished. That's the problem of overmatch and citadel overpen.

 

If i get good dispersion salvo, angled cruisers (not perfectly) are always devastating strikes. Broadside cruisers 0-1 citadel. At least dodging shells is working.

[TheBigLanowski]

 

Even if he aimed wrong, too much below, the shells that got bad dispersion should hit the citadel. What i mean is at close range you can't hit a citadel unles you can overmatch angled armor then you can do it easily. Whats wrong? best protection at really close distance is going to be full broadside so shots overpen becouse if you angle you are much more likely to get citadeled. Noobs rewarded, and the players that angle are punished. That's the problem of overmatch and citadel overpen.

 

If i get good dispersion salvo, angled cruisers (not perfectly) are always devastating strikes. Broadside cruisers 0-1 citadel. At least dodging shells is working.

 

This is exactly the problem I have with this game! The lack of skill involved and the randomness... I'm now better off, staying at a distance spamming HE. Saw a Tirpitz resultscreen with Witherer and 140k HE dmg...

[robihr]

i found the problem. you mustn't burp when you are aiming citadels

 

[mtm78]

 

But I aimed at the waterline, so the shots going way to short are a matter of RNG don't they? Got this problem as well in a Hipper at 2km on not moving targets, the shoots fly how they want.

 

Aimpoint was not really clear, first couple of salvo's looked like you were aiming way to low but then it looked a lot better ( but you still didn't get the expected damage numbers ). Also, it looks like you were having some lag issues as I found the replay quite jumpy at times ( might be a replay bug as well ). Also, the issue seems to be that aiming below waterline at ships at close distance throws of the built in aim assist ( feels like you're getting the dispersion associated with not having a target lock, or well it feels that way.. would explain why from six shells fired in each salvo from your two front turrets you were only hitting 3 shells most of the times ). 

 

And, if you aim AT the waterline at such distances, the angle is to steep to penetrate the citadel, it will give a normal pen ( no citadel ) or if unlucky you might even overpen because of hitting above the citadel and being so close ( the 180mm has really good punch ).

 

 

Even if he aimed wrong, too much below, the shells that got bad dispersion should hit the citadel. What i mean is at close range you can't hit a citadel unles you can overmatch angled armor then you can do it easily. Whats wrong? best protection at really close distance is going to be full broadside so shots overpen becouse if you angle you are much more likely to get citadeled. Noobs rewarded, and the players that angle are punished. That's the problem of overmatch and citadel overpen.

 

If i get good dispersion salvo, angled cruisers (not perfectly) are always devastating strikes. Broadside cruisers 0-1 citadel. At least dodging shells is working.

 

Can't argue with that

[Sidian42]

Today I got into a knife fight in my Donskoi with a Ibuki. There I experienced some wired things. I load AP since he was going full broadside and I aimed for the citadel under the funnels and under the turrets but was unable to hit them. I only got very low dmg rolls and all in all only 2 citadels. But they felt like luck and not like I managed to hit them because of skillfull play...

 

The Donskoi has very small caliber guns. Every other t9 cruiser has bigger guns and better penetration values. In addition, the ibuki has very good citadel armor.

I think you got a bit unlucky with your fist salvo and then the ibuki was angled too well against your AP shells.

[TheBigLanowski]

 

Aimpoint was not really clear, first couple of salvo's looked like you were aiming way to low but then it looked a lot better ( but you still didn't get the expected damage numbers ). Also, it looks like you were having some lag issues as I found the replay quite jumpy at times ( might be a replay bug as well ). Also, the issue seems to be that aiming below waterline at ships at close distance throws of the built in aim assist ( feels like you're getting the dispersion associated with not having a target lock, or well it feels that way.. would explain why from six shells fired in each salvo from your two front turrets you were only hitting 3 shells most of the times ). 

 

And, if you aim AT the waterline at such distances, the angle is to steep to penetrate the citadel, it will give a normal pen ( no citadel ) or if unlucky you might even overpen because of hitting above the citadel and being so close ( the 180mm has really good punch ).

 

The jumping aimpoint and the lags are due to replay bugs. The game went smooth for me on 60 frames and a ping of 30. No lags at all. I aim just a fraction under the waterline, but what you say makes sense for me. Looks almost the same like shooting without the ingame aim assist. No matter what, close encounter are not how they should be! This needs a rework in my opinion.

[TheBigLanowski]

 

The Donskoi has very small caliber guns. Every other t9 cruiser has bigger guns and better penetration values. In addition, the ibuki has very good citadel armor.

I think you got a bit unlucky with your fist salvo and then the ibuki was angled too well against your AP shells.

 

180mm is not very small at all. It's enough to shoot a 27k salvo into an Iowa with AP at 3km range (Did this today, was a nice unexpected explosion) so Ibukis armor will NOT stop these shells. He never angles properly, only as he changed side it was clear that my shots will bounce, therefore I tried to aim at the torpedo launcher and maybe get lucky to destroy one of them.

[Kazomir]

Wasn't there a post telling us never to aim below waterlines because the ingame aim helper screws itself?

[TheBigLanowski]

Wasn't there a post telling us never to aim below waterlines because the ingame aim helper screws itself?

 

Was there one? Would be nice to have a link, missed this one though. But how are you able to hit the citadels at close range than?!

[Kazomir]

 

Was there one? Would be nice to have a link, missed this one though. But how are you able to hit the citadels at close range than?!

 

Aim at the ship itself. Very close to the waterline. Works fine. 

[TheBigLanowski]

 

Aim at the ship itself. Very close to the waterline. Works fine. 

 

Not at this kind of range... tested it in the trainingsroom, its almost impossible to hit citadels. With a gearing on the other hand its easy to threeshot a Ibuki its so pointless...

[Sidian42]

180mm is not very small at all. It's enough to shoot a 27k salvo into an Iowa with AP at 3km range (Did this today, was a nice unexpected explosion) so Ibukis armor will NOT stop these shells. He never angles properly, only as he changed side it was clear that my shots will bounce, therefore I tried to aim at the torpedo launcher and maybe get lucky to destroy one of them.

 

Well, 180mm is kinda small compared to the other cruiser's 203mm guns. Even 10mm can make a big difference.

But i have to agree now, had the same problem with a Hipper - i shot a Myoko at 15km range, 20k hit, 3 citadels. I shot a Hipper (which has less armor than the myoko) at 5km range, no citadels.

[Diabolik__]

It happens sometime. 

 

Just had game my Kirov vs Kuma. I engaged Kuma from less than 4 Km, Kuma stopped I fired 3 salvos in motionless Kuma, not a single citadel =S and finally Kuma killed me with AP.

 

Game before that I had 14 citadels. So it's not that I'm aimig wrong it has to be RNGesus.

 

Also noticed this in Baltimore, couldn't cit Hipper from 8 Km in 3-4 salvos but cit Ibuki, Donskoi... from 17-18Km =S very wired.

[TheBigLanowski]

The German cruisers have a different armour layout, they are in general hard to citadel even for battleships at close range if broadside on. Its not the thickness that makes the difference, its always the layout.

Sidian, yeah they have the smallest calibre at t9, but if it is enough to citadel an Iowa from 3 km it should also work on a Ibuki at 2km ;)

[RichardNixon]

Just had game my Kirov vs Kuma. I engaged Kuma from less than 4 Km, Kuma stopped I fired 3 salvos in motionless Kuma, not a single citadel =S and finally Kuma killed me with AP.

 

Game before that I had 14 citadels. So it's not that I'm aimig wrong it has to be RNGesus.

 

Also noticed this in Baltimore, couldn't cit Hipper from 8 Km in 3-4 salvos but cit Ibuki, Donskoi... from 17-18Km =S very wired.

 

The Hipper has a sub-waterline citadel, so it's pretty tough to hit at close range. Even if you hit it in exactly the right place, the angled internal armour will ricochet some shots, although probably not from USN 203mm guns.

 

The Kuma has a huge citadel, but it's very easy to overpen due to thin armour and narrow ship. You can overpen it with St Louis guns.

 

[Diabolik__]

What is the value of overpen?