US Battleships - why so much hate ?

[anonym_gxxGX7KaxQVa]

Time to let off something i had on my chest for a long while:

US battleships suck in game compared to the japanese ones; they just do. this is coming from someone who has more than 4000 games and played both US and Jap line BTW.

i've just never had much fun playing US BB; while the japanese one always feels great and much more capable... which just makes me cry because i like US battleships historically and i think they look beautiful, but they just arn't competitive ingame...

 

-with dreadnoughts (tier 3-7), they suffer of pitiful accuracy, bad range, bad reload speed, and always inferior HP to their japanese conterparts; not to mention of course, 20 kts....

-with post-treaty battleships (tier 8-10), their pitiful accuracy shows even more because of the longer range and super high shell arc (and slow mo shell speed on NC) , they have poor armor compared to japanese ships (except at tier 8 with Battlecruiser Amagi), and still inferior HP; also, very bad rudder shift and turning radius for Iowa and Montana.

 

their only 2 adventage on the other hand are:

-good AA: won't matter for most game since CV are rare, and if you go alone planes will stil rape you all the same anyway (as they should); so you have to stay with cruiser or die either way; you having good AA makes no difference

-good armor (only for dreadnoughts tough: tier 3-7): it's nice but armor is just overrated and doesn't matter that much in WOWs, because of armor mechanic, even Battlecruiser Kongo and Amagi with their 200-something mm are invincible to any shell if they face the ennemy; and only show side a few seconds to fire rear guns when the ennemy is reloading. armor is really just situationnal for when you get caught broadside (at which point you'll likely get dunked anyway regardless of good or bad armor).

 

it almost seem to me WG wanted the US Dreadnoughts (Tier 3-7) to be brawlers with their short range, innacuracy, but good turn radius and armor; yes... let's balance as a brawler a ship that can't go faster than 20 kts and will never reach close combat before game is over; great idea guys!
 

with post-treaty battleships (tier 8-10) it's just a hot mess; in real life they were superb and very modern designs especially in term or Radar and electronics, made to stay far and use their superior speed, situationnal awareness, and fire control to not get hit and retaliate with superior accuracy; which is why they will never be good in WOWs because long range shots are not possible for balance reason...

so you're just reduced to a gimmick cheese ship where you face ennemy at 5 kts and use only your front guns that miss all the time untill you burn to death; not fun to play and not fun to go against...

 

what's possibly the worst of all tough; US BB get massively shafted on upgrade where they are the only ship that can't mount the all important Accuracy Upgrade untill tier 9 & 10; even tough they are the one line in game that Need it the most because they have been given the worst accuracy of all ships in game which is totally the opposite of what was the case in real life...

Why WG; why ??

 

even now with upgrade overall on next patch; they'll get shafted Yet Again: the accuracy module they don't get will have now have also 20% range and accuracy on secondaries; while the range upgrade of US BB gets only the accuracy, but not range upgarde of secondaries...

 

 

PS:

"but you're dumb FLASH-overlord" you say?

"the US BB will get a buffed 16% accuracy upgrate in the 3rd slot, look at patch notes better!" you say?

 

well guess what ?

-this only affects 2 ships; i'm speaking about the entire line here.

-because US BB have the worst base accuracy for not reason at all; having a better accuracy module will only compensate for that and give them the same-ish accuracy as Jap BB at tier 9 & 10; it won't actually give them better accuracy.

[ColonelPete]

If you really think that Myogi is better than Wyoming, you are doing it wrong.

And I do not understand out of which hat you conjure "hate".

On most tiers the performance of both trees is similar.

[deadly_if_swallowed]

US battleships suck in game compared to the japanese ones; they just do. this is coming from someone who has more than 4000 games and played both US and Jap line BTW.

 

They just don't. Coming from someone who has "only" 3.5k games, half of them with BBs of both trees, IJN to T10, USN to T8 and still grinding.

Their designs are different and so are their playstyles. But neither can be considered superior over the other.

[Kazomir]

In the last few patches montana, iowa and NC got among other things accuracy, speed and AA buffs.

 

Buff them even more so they are able to take on jap BBs and they become OP. Simple as that.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

u know usa bbs will start better from nc unless u want play slugish ones

[Myrmix]

Lel.

At t8+ the nc, iowa and montana now get

-) AA that makes even t10 cv cry

-) impenetrable frontalarmor when angled (unless you meet a yamato, but that's every BB)

-) now the better ijn-like spread on your main guns

 

So perfect for the awesome angle-and-reverse tactic to camp at your (decent) maxrange and never even have to think about supporting anyone. Even CVs can't punish your anymore for it.

[Tyrendian89]

imho (Yamato and Iowa owner):

 

Wyoming >>>> Myogi (it's not hard to be better than Myogi...)

New York << Kongo

NewMex < Fuso (NewMex has more armour and AA, but that doesn't quite balance out RoF and speed imo)

Colorado =< Nagato (very close if you can handle the Colo well)

NC >> Amagi (at least with the new accuracy... just better in every regard except one less barrel)

Iowa >> Izumo (especially nowadays)

Montana <<< Yamato (no comment needed, although the continuous accuracy buffs for Monty we see in 5.6 and 5.7 do help - cruiser killer par excellence! Will just always lose to Yamato due to overmatch mechanics)

 

[Oely001]

US BB are not all worse than Japanese, they are more workhorse-style: sturdy, relatively easy to play. A Japanese BB is like a Diva, really funny to play (esp. the Kongo), but they forgive NOTHING. Kongo is a tin can, you can get citadels even from some cruisers, and forward armor is not that good, too. When you play the Japs wrong you die. When you play US wrong, it's deadly dullness.

 

 

[SFCGunny313]

Everyone just calm down.  OP has an opinion, and he is certainly entitled to his opinion.

Overall, I tend to agree with both OP and Tyrendian89.  US BB line was definitively more painful to grind.  Colorado remains the ONLY ship I've used free XP to bypass as it was just too painful to play.

Now granted - I'm a mere 2000 battle player, and only have the NC and Nagato, but overall, the IJN line was easier and more fun.

The drastic differences in overall main battery range, particularly at mid-tier make US BBs quite challenging.

Now all that said - it comes down to play style preference and adaptability.  It's one of the things I enjoy with this game (it's also why I'm still only at a few tier 8 ships because I play all the lines).

[Jethro_Grey]

The range and dispersion of US BBs is fine.

One does NOT snipe in BBs of the US BB line. Actually, one does NOT snipe in BBs of any Nation. Period.

If you do, you doing it wrong and might want to stick to CL/ CAs.

[Krizmuz]

I don't care what nation of damage pinatas you choose to drive

[SFCGunny313]

I don't care what nation of damage pinatas you choose to drive

 

Unhelpful, and added nothing to the discussion

[Krizmuz]

 

Unhelpful, and added nothing to the discussion

 

not sure if I can sleep at night now

[_Teob_]

 

Unhelpful, and added nothing to the discussion

 

But it was kinda funny. I certainly snorted a bit.

[Agantas]

Unhelpful, and added nothing to the discussion

 

You can help the fluency of the thread by only responding to those posts that you find relevant for the discussion. Look how you trolled me to make this irrelevant for the discussion post just to educate you.

 

As for the OP's BB comparison, look how the Japanese get swift and stealthy Kawachi, bristling with 50% more guns than the slow and visible US counterpart, South Carolina.

[Admiral_noodle]

I just don't enjoy anything above New Mexico. Whereas Amagi is great fun. I'm sure NC and Iowa are good ships. I can't seem to make them work

 

[Sander93]

I like how the OP states there's so much hate for US BBs LITTERALLY on the day they announce major buffs for them (module changes), and like two weeks after the tier 8-10 already got buffed previous patch. In case you didn't notice the lower tier ships get a 7% dispersion buff with the new range module. 

[SFCGunny313]

 

You can help the fluency of the thread by only responding to those posts that you find relevant for the discussion. Look how you trolled me to make this irrelevant for the discussion post just to educate you.

 

As for the OP's BB comparison, look how the Japanese get swift and stealthy Kawachi, bristling with 50% more guns than the slow and visible US counterpart, South Carolina.

 

As players and members of the community who post and try to be of assistance, we should all engage in more self-policing of the forums in order to reduce unhelpful, sarcastic, demeaning or abusive posts.

[SerPurr]

 

As players and members of the community who post and try to be of assistance, we should all engage in more self-policing of the forums in order to reduce unhelpful, sarcastic, demeaning or abusive posts.

 

Fully agree. To all of the above. And then some.  Sorry, please continue. I believe we were somewhere at 'US Battleships suck and must get 100% accuracy buff'. Oops 

[Elo_Naj]

Well with Us BB you have to get close and personal and you have the armor to make that possible. US BB are in close distance devastating.

[Spellfire40]

u know usa bbs will start better from nc unless u want play slugish ones

​No it end at NC because till T7 you Play ships at t8 you Play Floating gunbateries that sit aroung at 5 kn Forward or backwards pointing their bow to the target because the second you dont you lose 50% of your hp to citadels.They might deinstall all aft Turets and increase your backwards Speed, I really dread when they bring in the frensh Forward only BBs that playstyle really isnt befiting to a Warship game. Crossing the T meand the one crossing loses...yea right.

[ilhilh]

The lower/mid tier USN BBs can be a trial for people who like speed and range, but they are still capable ships with the general improvements in armour and number of barrels (Fuso/NM being the exception barrels wise).  Having climbed to the top of both trees there is not 1 tier where either ship seemed massively outclassed by the BB of the other nation.  Different yes, but not outclassed.

 

You mention your 4k games but in that you've only got to 1 tier 8 BB.  If we compare your 2 tier 7 BBs you actually get higher ave damage in your Colorado than your Nagato (same for Wyoming).

 

And then your ave damage in the NC is down from the Colorado and this really shouldn't be the case.  You are a decent player by anyone's standard but you are not getting the most out of the NC - I would hazard to guess that you are trying to use the NC how you want to play battleships as opposed to fitting your playstyle to the ship but that is speculation since I haven't seen you play it.  Either way, the NC represents the most radical shift in stats from the predecessors and you have not made the adjustment despite a healthy number of games in it.

[Kazomir]

Everyone just calm down.  OP has an opinion, and he is certainly entitled to his opinion.

Overall, I tend to agree with both OP and Tyrendian89.  US BB line was definitively more painful to grind.  Colorado remains the ONLY ship I've used free XP to bypass as it was just too painful to play.

Now granted - I'm a mere 2000 battle player, and only have the NC and Nagato, but overall, the IJN line was easier and more fun.

The drastic differences in overall main battery range, particularly at mid-tier make US BBs quite challenging.

Now all that said - it comes down to play style preference and adaptability.  It's one of the things I enjoy with this game (it's also why I'm still only at a few tier 8 ships because I play all the lines).

 

Being entitled to your opinions is like being entitled to your own excrements, for more ofthen than not they are one and the same.

[anonym_gxxGX7KaxQVa]

The lower/mid tier USN BBs can be a trial for people who like speed and range, but they are still capable ships with the general improvements in armour and number of barrels (Fuso/NM being the exception barrels wise).  Having climbed to the top of both trees there is not 1 tier where either ship seemed massively outclassed by the BB of the other nation.  Different yes, but not outclassed.

 

You mention your 4k games but in that you've only got to 1 tier 8 BB.  If we compare your 2 tier 7 BBs you actually get higher ave damage in your Colorado than your Nagato (same for Wyoming).

 

And then your ave damage in the NC is down from the Colorado and this really shouldn't be the case.  You are a decent player by anyone's standard but you are not getting the most out of the NC - I would hazard to guess that you are trying to use the NC how you want to play battleships as opposed to fitting your playstyle to the ship but that is speculation since I haven't seen you play it.  Either way, the NC represents the most radical shift in stats from the predecessors and you have not made the adjustment despite a healthy number of games in it.

 

 

you are right; the reason i only have ships up to teir 8 even tough i have 4K games is because i play all lines of IJN and USN; and don't want to play paper ships (like Amagi).

and the NC is the only ship of any line so far that i truly and totally hated; to the point where i even had to ask for help about it; something i never needed to do before for any ship.

 

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/47574-i-dont-understand-north-carolina-need-advice/page__fromsearch__1

 

 

 

because my initial stats with it were terrible; they still drag my avereage down now (note that i haven't played her post sigma buff too since i can't play this month for work reason)

however; while i got better at it after this help topic; i'm still not having fun playing it; she is the only ship i've consistently never had fun playing; and all the rest of the US BB line also to a lesser extent.

i'm usually not bad at adapting to different playstyles too since as you can see i play all class of 2 nations.

 

 

i understand seeing their stats that the US BB (tier 3-7) are supposed to be brawlers but what's the damn point of a brawler that can't get into brawl before the fight is over cause 20 kts...

and at high tier they are good yes, only if you do the cheese tactic of bow camping at 5 kts (if that's what you're refering by "getting the most out of north carolina").... which i'm not doing. too boring and unsportmanslike. i'd rather play them like a real ship and die.

isn't it too much to ask that they are not basically balanced to exploit the way the armor and armor penetration system of the game work in an unrealistic way ?

(i havn't played Iowa and montana as you say, but other good players on this forum told me they're basically more of the same).

 

 

the whole point of why i started this thread was to say that in my opinion; they are not fun to play (horrible accuracy ruins the fun, and is totally historically innacurate) and they should be balanced differently

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jackalpl]

Its just my opinion. But some gamers like different nations. For you US Navy is better. But im sure you will find these who like Japanese Navy. I dont spak about stats. Some ppl Just fell how to use ship, with some tactics.