German CV,s

[Lussebagarn]

I wonder if germany will have CV,s they only have one existing carrier and that  is graf zeppelin but it was a prototype and did not enter service. so will germany just have imaginery carriers. or did they have more carriers? If then corect me  

 

[aboomination]

I'm sure there will be a premium CV but a whole line? Well, it's WG ;)

[BlueMoon51]

Didn't they also have a couple of ships planned with an Italian connection(I can't quite remember how but maybe liners???) and seeing as I'm sure you will be getting Russian Battleships and Carriers at some point why not? at least they had a blue water fleet.

[Cardinal_Richelieu]

I´m from Germany and i hope the Graf Zeppelin come as a Tier VII Premium CV, a whole Line plz not i dont like blueprint Tree´s.

 

Only the Roayl Navy had enough CV´s for a new CV Nation Tree

[Lussebagarn]

do someone know wy they diddent make carriers?

[ColonelPete]

You need a use for them and then you need a big fleet and a lot of ressources.

None of which the german navy had.

[BlueMoon51]

My understanding is it was more political and the way Germany worked or indeed didn't they could never settled who was responsible for operations(in the same way the RN suffered following WW1 until the late 1930s)the Graf Zeppelin was pretty much finished and ready for service before being having much of its hardware removed.

[Nekomancer]

do someone know wy they diddent make carriers?

 

You need a use for them and then you need a big fleet and a lot of ressources.

None of which the german navy had.

On top of that, Germany was mainly fighting on the European continent and Africa. In both cases, they had enough ground bases to fly their planes from.

Unlike the USA or Japan.

[praetor_jax]

Well they can always get "creative" - pic every capital ship, chop off the superstructure, add flightdeck and give it some random german sounding name - done! Gib money! ;-)

[aboomination]

Well they can always get "creative" - pic every capital ship, chop off the superstructure, add flightdeck and give it some random german sounding name - done! Gib money! ;-)

 

And name it WTF E-Bismarck?

[praetor_jax]

 

And name it WTF E-Bismarck?

 

Yea something like that

[Unintentional_submarine]

Last we heard anything from the devs, German CVs were given the thumbs down. They are not even in the plans. That said I can't imagine Graf Zeppelin not making an appearance at some point.

[Historynerd]

I may be wrong, but I thought there was also infighting between the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe, as Goering didn't want resources to be diverted towards the carriers.

 

In contrast, in Italy the biggest share of fault for not building carriers lies with the Regia Marina, although the Regia Aeronautica didn't help; the admirals were never sure enough that carriers would be needed, so they put off until it was too late.

Although in their case carriers were less needed; what they really need was a working interservice protocol between navy and air force, but in 1940 the situation was nothing short of appalling.

[22cm]

 

And name it WTF E-Bismarck?

Must come with torps! Destroyer comes to torp you, you torp him back!

 

OP: No GE or RU CVs, those are pure paper ships.

[krautjaeger]

I guess they may use these? http://german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/zplan/carrier/index.html

[Unintentional_submarine]

I may be wrong, but I thought there was also infighting between the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe, as Goering didn't want resources to be diverted towards the carriers.

 

 

It was less about the resources, and more about the fact that the Kriegsmarine, which he had no control over, would be in command of air assets which he considered his private domain. So he set roadblocks on the development of something as simple as the carrier conversion of Bf109s and Stukas. If something could get half a meter off the ground, Göring would appropriate it for the Luftwaffe...

[Goats_Beard]

Would conversion of the Bf109 for carrier use have even been practical?

 

I'm thinking mainly of the unusual undercarriage layout in comparison for instance to the Sea Hurricane used by the British. The Focke Wulf on the other hand has a much wider wheelbase so would appear to be a more viable option.

 

Bf109 had the undercarriage struts mounted to the fuselage which gave it a very narrow wheelbase, most (if not all)? other fighters had them mounted to the wings making them more stable for landing/takeoff.

 

Edit: Thank you unintentional for enlightening me #21

 

 

 

 

[ColonelPete]

It would have worked, but would have been prone to accidents.

After development of FW 190, it would have been the better carrier based plane.

[th3freakie]

I was against it, but the ideas floated in this thread have convinced me.

 

Please yes, German CVs with torpedos. Please yes, Soviet CVs with amazing lazer guns.

[NoirLotus]

Would conversion of the Bf109 for carrier use have even been practical?

 

I'm thinking mainly of the unusual undercarriage layout in comparison for instance to the Sea Hurricane used by the British. The Focke Wulf on the other hand has a much wider wheelbase so would appear to be a more viable option.

 

Bf109 had the undercarriage struts mounted to the fuselage which gave it a very narrow wheelbase, most (if not all)? other fighters had them mounted to the wings making them more stable for landing/takeoff.

 

 

Spitfire also had a narrow wheelbase and it performed well as a CV-based aircraft (though landing was really hard with it).

 

The main problem of Bf-109 was that the wings were so small that it performed really badly at low speed (IIRC, historians consider that 1/3 of Bf 109 losses are accidents at low speed during take-off and landing maneuvers), and that is essential  !! In a plane operating from a ship, you always take off and land at the verge of stalling because of the short track.

 

A naval version of Bf 109 with bigger wings was tested, but as Germany gave up the idea of using CV, the few planes were deployed in Luftwaffe units.

[Unintentional_submarine]

Would conversion of the Bf109 for carrier use have even been practical?

 

I'm thinking mainly of the unusual undercarriage layout in comparison for instance to the Sea Hurricane used by the British. The Focke Wulf on the other hand has a much wider wheelbase so would appear to be a more viable option.

 

Bf109 had the undercarriage struts mounted to the fuselage which gave it a very narrow wheelbase, most (if not all)? other fighters had them mounted to the wings making them more stable for landing/takeoff.

 

 

The F4F Wildcat had hull mounted front undercarriage, and it worked nicely. However, the Wildcat was of course a purpose built carrier fighter.

 

But the Germans of course knew that the Bf109 was, as a land fighter, less than optimal for carrier work. If it had been as simple as adding a tail hook, Göring wouldn't have been able to obstruct the conversion (they actually started from that point, which was obviously less than optimal). So it was still a fairly serious rework of the plane, but not as much as developing a purpose built naval fighter.

[Date_A_Bullet]

Actually, there were CV concepts for the german navy. Germany researched battheships, air craft carriers, tanks, planes until the very last month of the war. Even tho everyone knew, these would never be build in this war, they did it to be able to "catch up" after the downfall of Hitler germany.

Its a huge myth that germany "didnt care" for CVs. They gave up to actually build them due they were way too expensive and ineffective for the german side (in order to be able to protect CVs you need a large fleet of cruisers and battleships).

Most CV-Prototypes actually were converted to passenger ships.

 

From the gameplay-view I dont see much difference to the german cruiser line, Wargaming added T9 and T10 as pure fantasy ships and they fit the typical german designs very well. Well, at least they did before f-up patch 0.5.6.

 

 

So if it was possible for the german cruiser line, why not the german CV line?

[Trainspite]

It is definitely possible to get a German CV line in, although they would not be seen around for a long time. Behind the British, and possibly the French, Italians and maybe second Japanese, American & British as well, but still ahead of the Russian designs. 

[th3freakie]

On a more important note - what would a german CV line bring?

 

WG haven't found a place for the 2 lines of CV they do have, what could they do with a 3rd?

[Trainspite]

On a more important note - what would a german CV line bring?

 

WG haven't found a place for the 2 lines of CV they do have, what could they do with a 3rd?

 

There is only one choice for a third CV line at this time, and it is the British. I expect the British to be a midway between the USN and IJN. As for the Germans, I really do not know, since they are behind the British for sure, and it is easier to get a French CV line out before them. I think it is low down on their priorities however, and carrier balance may need a major rework before even a third British line is introduced.