3 lines of ship need buffing or rebalancing.

[22cm]

High tiers US cruisers and carriers and Jap destroyers are the worst performers on their tiers. Not one or two ships,  but the whole line from tier 6 and up suffers a lot. Already it is not worth grinding higher than Cleveland,  Bogue or Minekaze,  it is just wasted time. 

[kfa]

US Carriers are just fine, they are not extremely OP like before, thats why few people use them.

US Cruisers would be generally all right if people could play them to their strength - shooting down planes. Its just a pity that carrier gameplay is not really fun these days. Fewer carriers - worse US Cruiser performance.

With the IJN DDs you might be right, it is a general opinion, that the peak of the line is the Minekaze, especially with the Shimakaze changes and removing the option of effective long range torping.

[22cm]

^

Who wants to play carriers will just play Japs,  because they are much better. Why bother with the underdogs? 

What are US cruisers needed for,  when BBs AA is already strong enough? 

Before Shimaze nerf,  at least you were grinding 4 tiers to get a competitive DD,  and now even that it s gone. 

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

Dont even joke , i dont see any problems on jp dd, they fine, usa ca? whats about them ? got dm , cant say there was any problems about them , unless moon arch , and cv? whats wrong with them ? after they nerf it , u want make op again?, its fnny , bcuz u dont even have any t10 , i not sure how u an say any from these lines have any problems

[22cm]

^

I want to smoke what you re smoking.  Your personal experience is irrelevant,  I m talking official stats here. I can also make bad ships work,  but the large mass of players can not,  and the numbers show it. 

On all tiers,  4-10,  Jap CV s have bette WR than US,  only Saipan is competitive because p2w premiums. 

On tiers 6-10, Jap DDs have the worst WR from all DDs. 

Because of St. Louis,  Cleveland and Des Moines,  US does not have the worst performing cruisers on all tiers. But lately,  after the Furutaka buff,  Omaha has the worst WR on tier 5 too. 

[ColonelPete]

High tiers US cruisers and carriers and Jap destroyers are the worst perfomers on their tiers. Not one or two ships,  but the whole line from tier 6 and up suffers a lot. Already it is not worth grinding higher than Cleveland,  Bogue or Minekaze,  it is just wasted time. 

 

Do not talk about lines, if you mean specific ships. Some of the ships need improvement, but not the CVs.

[kfa]

Yes and if we balance the game only by staring at numbers on stat sites we end up ships like the Skillway before or violently defending the state of the Yubari and Sims pretending that they are okay.

[22cm]

 

Do not talk about lines, if you mean specific ships. Some of the ships need improvement, but not the CVs.

 

What I mean is that US CVs need to be buffed to be competitive with the Jap CVs. I am as far as possible from being a CV fan boy. 

[ParEx]

High tiers US cruisers and carriers and Jap destroyers are the worst perfomers on their tiers. Not one or two ships,  but the whole line from tier 6 and up suffers a lot. Already it is not worth grinding higher than Cleveland,  Bogue or Minekaze,  it is just wasted time. 

 

Yep, since you played Pepsi, NO and so on. How can you judge ships you never touched? Pepsi is an awesome ship and so is NO. Maybe they are just not YOUR ships, and you cant play them in IJN HE-Spam-Style. So what? 

I really dont understand why people suck in these ships so hard according to stats. They are great ships.

[22cm]

Your personal experience is irrelevant,  I m talking official stats here. I can also make bad ships work,  but the large mass of players can not,  and the numbers show it. 

 

@ ParEx

[22cm]

Yep, since you played Pepsi, NO and so on. How can you judge ships you never touched? Pepsi is an awesome ship and so is NO. Maybe they are just not YOUR ships, and you cant play them in IJN HE-Spam-Style. So what? 

 

Exactly. Right now I m thinking about grinding a second cruiser line.  Why should I pick US when RU is much better on ALL tiers? 

[ColonelPete]

 

What I mean is that US CVs need to be buffed to be competitive with the Jap CVs. I am as far as possible from being a CV fan boy. 

 

Maybe the IJN CVs just need to be a bit weaker. Most US CV easily outperform the other ship types.

[22cm]

 

Maybe the IJN CVs just need to be a bit weaker. Most US CV easily outperform the other ship types.

 

Not really,  on the last 2 weeks,  US CVs have the worst WR on tiers 6-10,  compared with all other ships. 

[kfa]

 

Exactly. Right now I m thinking about grinding a second cruiser line.  Why should I pick US when RU is much better on ALL tiers? 

 

Oh god, you are going to be seriously disappointed. See you in your next nerf/buff thread in 1 month!

[DasTongle]

Dont know what you are smoking but every cruiser after pensacola is pure trolling fun. Extreme strong AP shells that hammer cruiser away. I can citadel des moines easy in my new orleans. Her AA is a bit weak cause they messed with the inner and outer shells but still. Carriers on the other hand maybe need a setup change cause every high tier cv of the us cvs js only going full strike what just feels wrong. IJN DD are still good the mind set of their captains is just wrong they sport great guns from fubuki onwards but those never get used its always more torps in the water cause why fire he shells that almost do 2500 alpha strikes per gun right? Wanna play hard mode? Try Khabarovsk its dancing on swords at the best of times. You have no torps to spaek of or some ijn dd that refuses to play the objective moaning about your op guns cause its totally op to need 140 shells to kill a shima without getting return fire

[allufewig]

US Carriers are just fine, they are not extremely OP like before, thats why few people use them.

US Cruisers would be generally all right if people could play them to their strength - shooting down planes. Its just a pity that carrier gameplay is not really fun these days. Fewer carriers - worse US Cruiser performance.

 

 

The problem is that planekills dont give you wins. Just compare airsup decks with strike decks. Similar with cruisers. You can have 50% of your displacement made of AA, it just wont help you if you are bad at attacking surface targets and carriers can largely just avoid specialist AA ships.

 

People depict US CAs as generalists, something that is not true. Theyre AA/escort specialists and as such naturally suffer in the 12monkeys vs 12 monkeys mode. It would even be the case if carriers were prevalent. Atlanta during CV meta was still shiet. People play IJN or RU instead, because these cruisers have bigger chances to turn a game around versus all sorts of potential enemies.

 

 

I agree with OP that the US CA line essentially is weak line. At least on T7-9. Baltimore is especially garbage.

[Panocek]

 

Exactly. Right now I m thinking about grinding a second cruiser line.  Why should I pick US when RU is much better on ALL tiers? 

 

US kruzers are best when it comes to pew pew at planes... sort of... mostly...

 

RU cruisers are bad at shell/torpedo dodging though, big+not exactly agile is not a good combo for glass cruiser...

[ColonelPete]

 

Not really,  on the last 2 weeks,  US CVs have the worst WR on tiers 6-10,  compared with all other ships. 

 

WR is not everything in mirror matchmaking. Look at the rest of the stats.

[DasTongle]

Especially not if you take into account that this ship just had a massive discount 2 weeks ago. Now you have a lot of people hopping from pensa and cleveland to higher tiers and sucking accordingly. On that note please drive more RU Cruisers.... keeps me laughing tears to front citadel them....

[allufewig]

Especially not if you take into account that this ship just had a massive discount 2 weeks ago. Now you have a lot of people hopping from pensa and cleveland to higher tiers and sucking accordingly. On that note please drive more RU Cruisers.... keeps me laughing tears to front citadel them....

 

 

Hes talking about CVs.

 

US mid to hightier CAs starting from Pensa have underperformend since the dawn of days.

[22cm]

 

WR is not everything in mirror matchmaking. Look at the rest of the stats.

 

When you compare different ship classes,  only WR is relevant.  For example,  a DD can get a lot of experience with zero damage,  just by capping,  and get good WR and XP with poor damage.  US CVs have the worst WR in the last 2 weeks on tiers 6-10 compared with all ships. 

 

[ColonelPete]

DDs not have mirror MM.

Think about mirror MM and the effects on WR for the involved ships.

[DasTongle]

I say it again. US CVs making themselves useless by not picking any setup that has a fighter squad in it. Out of the shitload of us carriers i had recently only 2 had one fighter one of them cause he was unupgraded. It is really not funny to always say forget the cv once its an american.

[ParEx]

 

@ ParEx

 

So whats your point here? Speaking about stuff you havent touched makes your post irrelevant. Nothing else. You say ships are bad without experience, others that actually have played them tell you, that your theoretical based opinion is not valid and you are offended by that and tell them their EXPERIENCE is invalid. Awesome.

Great start for a profound argumentation. Indeed.

[DasTongle]

Yup. Ships are crapcause... reasons.