Cruisers above tier 5

[Xerkics]

Why would you play cruiser above tier 5? Up to tier 5 90% of the cruisers are very fun to play. After tier 5 every time i play a tier 6 7 or 8 cruiser i get a feeling i would be better of playing either BB or DD.

DD for spotting and fighting DDs. BB for killing ships etc.

What exactly is the role of Cruiser that DD and BB cant do better? Because in real life you had a cruiser when you couldnt build BB because of treaty right? And while in team games playing an AA cruiser for example is important and viable in a normal game half the time you wont see CVs etc and you are worse at doing dmg and spotting than BB and DD so once again what is the purpose of cruisers post tier 5?

Because everything they can do with exception of AA BB and DD can do better and i feel like i could be contributing more to my team if i didnt play my pensacola or kutuzov or cleaveland or aoba but played sims fuso or Colorado or even derpitz or izokaze.

Things like CVs and DDs can decide matches on their own Cruisers in later tiers seem more of just something for other classes to kill unlike having a more meaningfull purpose of a all purpose ship at low tier. And having concealment shouldn't feel like a requirement to play a higher tier cruiser .

[Fafniroth]

BB and CL/CAs coexisted even during treaty. They were different classes with different logistics; BBs were expensive to build, maintain and deploy and often outright overkill.

 

AA is the least interesting cruiser contribution. How would you hunt DDs in a battleship? You don't (with some exceptions). You get something with enough firepower to kill a smaller ship but still agile enough to dodge the torpedoes. A cruiser.

 

Cruisers are more concealable than BBs, more agile, but still have heavy firepower, torpedoes, or both. IJN can burn you down from stealth. USN can Radar DDs and machinegun them from close range. VMF can do the same and snipe from long range. KM does... something, I guess. Mostly kills other cruisers and spots with hydro. These roles can't be as covered reliably by DDs, not with reduced effectiveness. In fact, we are currently experiencing a cruiser renaissance, to the point I'd expect people to question destroyers' role instead (which of course would be just as wrong).

 

 

[ParEx]

Why would you play cruiser above tier 5? Up to tier 5 90% of the cruisers are very fun to play. After tier 5 every time i play a tier 6 7 or 8 cruiser i get a feeling i would be better of playing either BB or DD.

DD for spotting and fighting DDs. BB for killing ships etc.

What exactly is the role of Cruiser that DD and BB cant do better? Because in real life you had a cruiser when you couldnt build BB because of treaty right? And while in team games playing an AA cruiser for example is important and viable in a normal game half the time you wont see CVs etc and you are worse at doing dmg and spotting than BB and DD so once again what is the purpose of cruisers post tier 5?

Because everything they can do with exception of AA BB and DD can do better and i feel like i could be contributing more to my team if i didnt play my pensacola or kutuzov or cleaveland or aoba but played sims fuso or Colorado or even derpitz or izokaze.

Things like CVs and DDs can decide matches on their own Cruisers in later tiers seem more of just something for other classes to kill unlike having a more meaningfull purpose of a all purpose ship at low tier. And having concealment shouldn't feel like a requirement to play a higher tier cruiser .

 

To be honest:

Up to tier5 Cruisers are quite OP in the hands of a skilled player and wreck everything from DDs to BBs. High number of guns, high rate of fire and HE will cripple everything else.

The role of a CA is its versatility. Its move agile at the cost of armor and punch but can still hurt you quite hard.

It cant win a 1on1 against an aware BB captain but thats not its job.

 

[ShinGetsu]

 KM does... something, I guess.

 

KMs got very powerful AP. Nürnberg may be fragile, but does more than 2.5k with each salvo on a tier 5/6 BB. Every 5 seconds.

They requires fighting mostly broadside enemies, but they're really good at chasing DDs and fighting cruisers. Close range torps helps a lot too.

 

[VC381]

Basically, cruisers are no longer the undisputed best class in the game so there's no point in playing them? It might be a playstyle thing, if you don't like them don't play them I guess. But the point of cruisers is they are the ONLY class in the game than can reliably deal with any other ship. CVs, BBs, DDs each have a weakness in that there is one other class that either wrecks them or they jut can't touch. The cruiser weakness is supposed to be BBs but it's not a "hard counter" if you're good at dodging. Cruisers have a unique combination of speed and firepower and a lot of variety of playstyles across the different ships. It's not the best at any one thing but that's the point, you can use it for whatever you want!

 

As for contributing to the team, again the point is you can switch to doing what your team needs. A BB might be better at killing other ships but it's difficult and risky for it to try to cap. As a cruiser you can support with damage then cap when it's a bit safer, you can adapt much better mid-game as the situation changes. And depending on ship you can be a very effective DD hunter, cruiser killer, BB burner etc.

 

On a side note for real life, cruiser construction had nothing to do with treaties. You can't afford to build enough BBs for them to be everywhere in your global empire and even if you could they're too slow to be constantly send around the world and too valuable to be split up. That's what cruisers were originally for, long distance patrolling, raiding etc. You can actually use a cruiser in game like this, go to where your BBs (and the enemy BBs) are not, flush out destroyers from caps, then come back quickly to where you're needed next.

 

For me though cruisers are just the most fun class even at higher tiers. I agree they are a bit more challenging to play but they can do so much. You probably don't realise when you play them how big your contribution is. If the MM is wonky you really feel it when your team is missing cruisers!

[cro_pwr]

BB and CL/CAs coexisted even during treaty. They were different classes with different logistics; BBs were expensive to build, maintain and deploy and often outright overkill.

 

AA is the least interesting cruiser contribution. How would you hunt DDs in a battleship? You don't (with some exceptions). You get something with enough firepower to kill a smaller ship but still agile enough to dodge the torpedoes. A cruiser.

 

Cruisers are more concealable than BBs, more agile, but still have heavy firepower, torpedoes, or both. IJN can burn you down from stealth. USN can Radar DDs and machinegun them from close range. VMF can do the same and snipe from long range. KM does... something, I guess. Mostly kills other cruisers and spots with hydro. These roles can't be as covered reliably by DDs, not with reduced effectiveness. In fact, we are currently experiencing a cruiser renaissance, to the point I'd expect people to question destroyers' role instead (which of course would be just as wrong).

 

 

 

only Des Moines can do that.

have fun machinegunning something down with 15 sec reload, and only Zao (iirc) can somewhat reliably burn you down from stealth, so both of them are t10 cruisers, and you still have 4 tiers between t5-10

OT, higher tier cruisers are indeed in a strange spot, since they are at the moment jack of all trades, master of none...

you are all of a sudden in a spot where you can do a lot of things given the right circumstances, but one mistake will send you to port from well placed BB salvo into your broadside...

excluding t10 cruisers, your main purpose isn't to carry games with 200k dmg like the BB can, but to support your team with giving AA defence, supporting your DDs by killing enemy DDs (in a DD vs DD fight, 80% of time the one that will win is the one that has better cruiser support), keeping enemy DDs away from your BBs, and softening up enemy BBs.

on the other hand, cruisers have one large upside, and thats the reliable damage. BBs with their dispersion, overpens etc are hit or miss... you either deal 20k dmg per salvo, or 1k dmg, depending purely about RNG, while with the cruiser you will get reliable lets say 4k dmg salvo every time you pull the trigger, and thats another thing where they do excel.

so yea, at this point, cruisers are probably hardest to master (next to gunboat DDs), but they sure do have their usage in the game.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Actually, apart from few notable examples, CA past tier V are still very good and reliable. Myoko and Pensa are very good. Hipper is very nice, Atago is a beast, Roon is very good, Ibuki is decent, Baltimore is mediocre. Tier X CA are very good ships. Des is the king of DPS, Zao is very dangerous opponent, and Hindenburg lands somewhere in the middle, being a good sniper (although relying on opponent showing broadside) and a decent brawler. On low tiers it's easy to carry in CA. On high tier a well played CA can have enormous impact on the game. Current meta favours CA's as their AA made them very difficult targets for CV's, DD are keeping BB's at distance, so you can brawl with other CA and burn BB's from "safe" distance.

Low tier games are there for a reason. Yes, it's easier to carry game with a cruiser up to tier V, but it's not a BB vs CA issue. It's good players vs bad player issue. It's easier to carry game in a fast shooting vessel at low tier due to constant and reliable damage you do. The higher you go, the more skilled players you meet, the harder it gets to carry a game. You hit tier VIII which is the hardest for CA's, then tier IX which is okay-ish, and then tier X when you somewhat go back to tier V ability to carry. At tier X BB's are scared of DD's and scared of CV's - they will not push you unless they are 100% sure there is no DD there. It takes a very skilled player in a BB to push for win at high tier. 90% of BB players tend to hold back and just shoot and wait until situation clarifies itself - which usually is too late and/or they are too battered from fires and BB hits to do their job.

So, actually, it's almost totally contrary to your opinion. It was pretty bad before radar addition, but with radar available and hydro re-adjusted - it's actually a good meta for CA's. Which also shows - CA numbers are pretty good.

[Kazomir]

CAs are solid as a class, indeed. But need a few more tweaks. Tier 8 is a very low point for them except for the Hipper (dunno about the Chep) The Mogami was left as a wreck after the huge nerf wave with no compensation.

 

Overall I think tier 8 cruisers need a repair party consumable too. The transition from tier 7 to 8 is huge leap forwards for most classes (colorado to NC, Nagato to Amagi, Mahan to Benson, etc) , but when thinking about Mogami, it is just a Myoko that is a bit worse.

[Xerkics]

I think the tier 10 cruisers are pretty strong but 6-9 seem pretty lackluster some maps they just dont work.

[Spellfire40]

I think the tier 10 cruisers are pretty strong but 6-9 seem pretty lackluster some maps they just dont work.

 

​More the Problem that BBs gets pretty acurate at that Level range and one good salvo and pretty much remove  a CA from the game (not killing them but geting then so low that even non Gunboat DDs are a real danger to them)

[jonasnee]

fun cruiser post tier 5

 

tier 6- cleve and aoba (molotov too i guess but i don't have it)

 

tier 7- atlanta (its crapbut fun) other ships i dont know to much about

 

tier 8- mogami was ok fun, atago is Op so is kutuzov

 

tier 9- no idea but i heard well of russian railguns

 

tier 10- zao also moskva which has almost yamato rang in 2ndaries (tho obviously not the same amount still interesting fact)

[Xerkics]

fun cruiser post tier 5

 

tier 6- cleve and aoba (molotov too i guess but i don't have it)

 

tier 7- atlanta (its crapbut fun) other ships i dont know to much about

 

tier 8- mogami was ok fun, atago is Op so is kutuzov

 

tier 9- no idea but i heard well of russian railguns

 

tier 10- zao also moskva which has almost yamato rang in 2ndaries (tho obviously not the same amount still interesting fact)

Really not a fan of Cleaveland, atlantas armour is even less than pensacola also.

[Fafniroth]

Really not a fan of Cleaveland, atlantas armour is even less than pensacola also.

 

Atlanta's armour is islands. Pensacola's armour is WASD.

[S4h3L]

fun cruiser post tier 5

 

tier 6- cleve and aoba (molotov too i guess but i don't have it)

 

tier 7- atlanta (its crapbut fun) other ships i dont know to much about

 

tier 8- mogami was ok fun, atago is Op so is kutuzov

 

tier 9- no idea but i heard well of russian railguns

 

tier 10- zao also moskva which has almost yamato rang in 2ndaries (tho obviously not the same amount still interesting fact)

Clev without expert makrsman and with citadel fixed is no fun, Atlanta is fun until enemy CA/BB/gunboat shows up, mogami is just canon fodder for T9-T10, Moskva is fun until whole enemy team focuse you bcs you are the biggest target on map

[VC381]

I also am starting to think Tier 7 is something of a sweet spot for cruisers. For most nations it's a big step up in firepower from the previous tier and you don't get dragged into Tier 9 games that often (because all the Tier 9s are busy filling T10 games). So taking into account that T8 cruisers aren't really much better than T7 and you are usually at worst middle tier in a battle, plus you club like crazy when top tier, and it's a very good place to be!

[VC381]

Whoops, duplicate!

[_Teob_]

Clev without expert makrsman and with citadel fixed is no fun, Atlanta is fun until enemy CA/BB/gunboat shows up, mogami is just canon fodder for T9-T10, Moskva is fun until whole enemy team focuse you bcs you are the biggest target on map

 

So balanced Clev is no fun (it was really OP before), Atlanta is a crappy ship at the best of times, Mogami, while not as powerful as the Atago, can hold its own just fine. It still has great HE and a great fire chance. Moskva is, at the moment, dominating the other cruisers in both dmg and win rate (although in the past 2 weeks, Zao has re-claimed the dmg crown but is trailing badly behind in win rate) so I suspect people are focusing Moskvas as otherwise you will lose due to its dmg.

 

I can't play low tier cruisers any more. The firepower is nice but they all feel too vulnerable to me.

[CavScorpion_2014]

Not sure about T7+ as I'm not there, but think T6 is fun, Cleve is now a keeper for me despite the shell arcs will be onto the Pepsicola with a fresh captain once I have credits, and Bud is so far my best ship in the game and likewise a keeper (will be adding the next Russian cruiser as and when can afford), also like the Nurn though won't retain it, not loving the Aoba, preferred the Furry Taco and from what I hear should stop at the Myoko.

[Fafniroth]

Not sure about T7+ as I'm not there, but think T6 is fun, Cleve is now a keeper for me despite the shell arcs will be onto the Pepsicola with a fresh captain once I have credits, and Bud is so far my best ship in the game and likewise a keeper (will be adding the next Russian cruiser as and when can afford), also like the Nurn though won't retain it, not loving the Aoba, preferred the Furry Taco and from what I hear should stop at the Myoko.

 

Pepsi is great once upgraded, but you need to be good with AP and furiously mash WASD to dodge shells. Crap concealment, so not really a carry ship, but a brutal artillery platform that dominates when not focused on. Myoko is a definite keeper, much like the Taco; the Aoba is just a stepping stone altough not a bad one. Only issue with Myoko is the slow turret rotation. Mogami is viable with the 203mm, and Ibuki is very good if plain. I wouldn't stop at Myoko, but be aware that after T5 every IJN CA is basically the same ship with slight variations. I'm not sure if I should keep the Nurnberg, it now has an interesting niche with the Hull C but I need to compare her to the Buddy. Yorck seems interesting.

[VC381]

 

Pepsi is great once upgraded, but you need to be good with AP and furiously mash WASD to dodge shells. Crap concealment, so not really a carry ship, but a brutal artillery platform that dominates when not focused on. Myoko is a definite keeper, much like the Taco; the Aoba is just a stepping stone altough not a bad one. Only issue with Myoko is the slow turret rotation. Mogami is viable with the 203mm, and Ibuki is very good if plain. I wouldn't stop at Myoko, but be aware that after T5 every IJN CA is basically the same ship with slight variations. I'm not sure if I should keep the Nurnberg, it now has an interesting niche with the Hull C but I need to compare her to the Buddy. Yorck seems interesting.

 

Completely agree about the Pepsi but still trying to get my head around what's so good about Myoko. I mean it isn't bad, but it's done nothing to wow me yet.

[piritskenyer]

 

Completely agree about the Pepsi but still trying to get my head around what's so good about Myoko. I mean it isn't bad, but it's done nothing to wow me yet.

 

This. It's a very good support ship, but not much else. 

[VC381]

 

This. It's a very good support ship, but not much else. 

 

It's very pretty though, and for some reason I love the sound the guns make. Not that the US cruisers aren't pretty as well, just less time to admire them with all the hectic dodging. With all the vibe of Myoko being so strong I think I had my expectations too high, I went really ham in it. I need to play it more chilled out and enjoy the RoF.

[zappori]

I started playing cruisers recently, and grinded up to Dimitri and ibuki (didn't grind much US line, those arcs man).

What I can say is aoba was fun, buddy and chapayev are great, molotov is great fun until you get focused.

Myoko, mogami = meh, ibuki = boring

Dimitri is mixed bag for me, while guns are great, AA decent, and radar very nice, it has crap concealment and turns like a yamato, so you get focused a lot.

[_Teob_]

I started playing cruisers recently, and grinded up to Dimitri and ibuki (didn't grind much US line, those arcs man).

What I can say is aoba was fun, buddy and chapayev are great, molotov is great fun until you get focused.

Myoko, mogami = meh, ibuki = boring

Dimitri is mixed bag for me, while guns are great, AA decent, and radar very nice, it has crap concealment and turns like a yamato, so you get focused a lot.

 

The Dmitri really doesn't turn like a Yamato. The Shchors and the Chepayev actually do but the Dmitri is just as manoeuvrable as tier X cruisers. Its detectability is awful. Not as bad as the Moskva's though.

 

The guns are what make the russian cruisers stand out - everything else is rather lacklustre.

[Kurbain]

 

Completely agree about the Pepsi but still trying to get my head around what's so good about Myoko. I mean it isn't bad, but it's done nothing to wow me yet.

 

It got the best concealment of any T7 cruiser, the best HE of any T7 cruiser, more DPM than the Atago/Mogami/Ibuki, surprisingly good AA, great torpedoes and a lot more HP than any other T7 cruiser.

The only issue is the horrendous turret traverse.

The Myoko was a T8 ship in the past that switched places with the Mogami and it shows.

 

I guess its strength isn't apparent because T7/T8 are the tiers at which cruisers are the weakest and being the best of the bad doesn't have to mean much.

 

 

Xerkics, on 30 May 2016 - 02:12 AM, said:

Why would you play cruiser above tier 5? Up to tier 5 90% of the cruisers are very fun to play. After tier 5 every time i play a tier 6 7 or 8 cruiser i get a feeling i would be better of playing either BB or DD.

 

The reasons to play cruisers above T5 are

A) Their much better accuracy compared to battleships. It's nice knowing that you don't have to rely on RNG to deal damage.

B) Reaching the T10 cruisers, which are DPM beasts.