Do Fighters still have the magic ability?

[JohnHusky]

Hey

 

Took a break from WoWs after they added the magic ability to fighters, where they could hit multiply targets at once.

 

So are that ability still in? Cause that was a gamebreaker for me.

 

Cheers

[Aotearas]

You talking about the fighter barrage?

 

Magic???

[ScratxNeko]

Hey

 

Took a break from WoWs after they added the magic ability to fighters, where they could hit multiply targets at once.

 

So are that ability still in? Cause that was a gamebreaker for me.

 

Cheers

 

Yes, it's still in.

[JohnHusky]

If by fighter barrage you mean, the way you used it by holding alt and you got this big area where the fighters hit every target in area, then yes.

 

I call it magic, since of all the history i read, this never happend!

[JohnHusky]

 

Yes, it's still in.

 

Damn, was looking forward to return as i saw they added a premium CV.

 

Oh well, ill be back in some month to see.

[AgarwaenME]

 

Damn, was looking forward to return as i saw they added a premium CV.

 

Oh well, ill be back in some month to see.

 

So what you're saying is, that you don't like that there's a skillfloor on playing fighters vs. fighters because you just want to click and don't otherwise pay attention, and that you're unable to use barrage to effectively defend your fleet, nor do you have the ability to tell your planes to avoid it.

[Ew_]

Yeah that function will not go away, it is permanently implemented.

It adds a level of skill in fighting enemy teams planes, so US captains cant target and forget anymore.

[JohnHusky]

 

So what you're saying is, that you don't like that there's a skillfloor on playing fighters vs. fighters because you just want to click and don't otherwise pay attention, and that you're unable to use barrage to effectively defend your fleet, nor do you have the ability to tell your planes to avoid it.

 

No, everything else seems to fit in, but that fighters just shooting into the air and hits multiply targets never happend in history

[JohnHusky]

Yeah that function will not go away, it is permanently implemented.

It adds a level of skill in fighting enemy teams planes, so US captains cant target and forget anymore.

 

So because they cant balance it right, they turn to magic abilities in a game thats supposed to resemble the way they fought in the past?

[AgarwaenME]

 

So because they cant balance it right, they turn to magic abilities in a game thats supposed to resemble the way they fought in the past?

 

It's not a balance thing, as every CV can do it. It's a an ability that requires you to have more skill and to be more attentive.

 

Also, anyone using "BUT OMG REALISM!!" just uses that because they lack any real argument, and pretty much always ignore anything realistic that's far more important in actual real life.

[Doversole]

It´s the Price you pay for it being an action game. No everything can be modeled to be historically acurate and fun at the same time.

[AgarwaenME]

It´s the Price you pay for it being an action game. No everything can be modeled to be historically acurate and fun at the same time.

 

Exactly. And the way it work 1v1 where planes can't even attempt to run away is just as "unrealistic" or more.

[JohnHusky]

It´s the Price you pay for it being an action game. No everything can be modeled to be historically acurate and fun at the same time.

 

Doesnt have to be "historically acurate". But adding ability that fits nowhere and seems to be magical as they can hit more targets at once.

Other war games have been able to balance it, but WG cant?

 

But it fine if they want to go in that direction with magical abilities like this, just not for me

[Kann_Nix_Extreme]

Why am I not surprised, that other unrealistic features like super short rearm time or super manoeuvrability don't seem to bother you? Could it be, that realism isn't the issue here?

[ColonelPete]

If by fighter barrage you mean, the way you used it by holding alt and you got this big area where the fighters hit every target in area, then yes.

 

I call it magic, since of all the history i read, this never happend!

 

If that is your argument, then it does not matter if stays in or not. The whole game is magic, since it never happened.

[AgarwaenME]

 

Doesnt have to be "historically acurate". But adding ability that fits nowhere and seems to be magical as they can hit more targets at once.

Other war games have been able to balance it, but WG cant?

 

But it fine if they want to go in that direction with magical abilities like this, just not for me

 

Firstly. Strafing runs were a COMMON TACTIC used against formations during WWII. And while you can say that this interpretation of that is pretty far from reality, it's NO MORE UNREALISTIC than what you already see.

 

You're just cherry picking the things you don't want, using "realism" as an excuse when you can't find a gameplay reason.

[Ictogan]

 

Doesnt have to be "historically acurate". But adding ability that fits nowhere and seems to be magical as they can hit more targets at once.

Other war games have been able to balance it, but WG cant?

 

But it fine if they want to go in that direction with magical abilities like this, just not for me

 

So the ability of cruisers to just triple their AA firepower and make all planes panic isn't magic? Because that's been in the game for a bloody long time.

[T0byJug]

 

No, everything else seems to fit in, but that fighters just shooting into the air and hits multiply targets never happend in history

 

it did actually! Late war Germany tried the tactic against American bomber formations! Back to game it's something that adds some skill to CV fighter play so I'm all for it

[JohnHusky]

 

Firstly. Strafing runs were a COMMON TACTIC used against formations during WWII. And while you can say that this interpretation of that is pretty far from reality, it's NO MORE UNREALISTIC than what you already see.

 

You're just cherry picking the things you don't want, using "realism" as an excuse when you can't find a gameplay reason.

 

They should have called it "fighter strafing" then, because when you search on the barrage, i found nothing that would explain it.

 

But thank you, Your right, needed it to be put into perspective.

 

cheers

[Seinta]

 

So what you're saying is, that you don't like that there's a skillfloor on playing fighters vs. fighters because you just want to click and don't otherwise pay attention, and that you're unable to use barrage to effectively defend your fleet, nor do you have the ability to tell your planes to avoid it.

 

I was left with the impression that this was implemented to fight the blobs that intagibbed ships, plenty of nerfs were implemented with them in mind.

Having a skill floor for fighters is fine and dandy, however the implementation is horrible:

1st -  You magicly kill more planes that you can with 1 on 1 fights

2nd - You can kill multiple squadrons for a fraction of the time it takes you to kill 1 bomber squadron

3rd - Because of it, fighters DPS was nerfed to hell leading to forced use of this ability

4th - This ability makes some captain skills(CV specific) useless - why take Expert Rear gunner when your bombers just get Strafed?

 

It did not change anything, when it comes to countering fighters, but it made mistakes alot more costly. Mistakes that are punished by more skilled players. Have you not noticed the amount of Saipan captains, bunching up their 3 fighter squadrons and not using the ability.

 

CVs are skill demanding enough, they could have easly gone without the instagib magic bullets. 

It takes skill to land a manual dive drop, it takes skill to land manual torp drop, it takes skill to position your planes and not lose them  during teh attack, it takes skill to read the map and support.

It also took skill to not lose your bombers, back when fighters were shooting bullets instead of rubber duckies in dogfights, same applied to suppresing the enemy.

 

 

 Why am I not surprised, that other unrealistic features like super short rearm time or super manoeuvrability don't seem to bother you? Could it be, that realism isn't the issue here? 

 

The issue here is an ability that defies all logic, mind you this is not a 90s arcade game and I don't understand why we need this super arcady ability here.

Ability that makes some captain skills useless, punishing newer players way too severely for not knowing how to play and it comes at the price of nerfed performance of all fighters in a dogfight across the board.

 

I remember, long time ago, that we had to control the engagement to win an unfair dogfingh, we had to think, how we were gonna position our planes to deny a larger area or minimize our loses ... it was fun.

Now 1 squadron can wipe out multiple squadrons, but somehow derp out and fail to kill 1 squadron or run out of ammo.

 

The idea of punishing stacked squadrons is good, the implementation is horrible. It should have been a suppresion ability, that dealt damage to all planes and panicked them, not wipe them out.

 

What we have now is a seal clubbing ability.

[Kann_Nix_Extreme]

Your CV stats suggest that you were very well capable of mastering the existing mechanics. I'm sure that someone like you will be able to handle the strafing ability as well. Just take your time to practice and you will come to see that most of your enemies are absolutely clueless as well. It doesn't take much to be better at strafing than the average player, and since you are far from average I don't see any problem at all 

 

[AgarwaenME]

 

I was left with the impression that this was implemented to fight the blobs that intagibbed ships, plenty of nerfs were implemented with them in mind.

Having a skill floor for fighters is fine and dandy, however the implementation is horrible:

1st -  You magicly kill more planes that you can with 1 on 1 fights

2nd - You can kill multiple squadrons for a fraction of the time it takes you to kill 1 bomber squadron

3rd - Because of it, fighters DPS was nerfed to hell leading to forced use of this ability

4th - This ability makes some captain skills(CV specific) useless - why take Expert Rear gunner when your bombers just get Strafed?

 

It did not change anything, when it comes to countering fighters, but it made mistakes alot more costly. Mistakes that are punished by more skilled players. Have you not noticed the amount of Saipan captains, bunching up their 3 fighter squadrons and not using the ability.

 

CVs are skill demanding enough, they could have easly gone without the instagib magic bullets. 

It takes skill to land a manual dive drop, it takes skill to land manual torp drop, it takes skill to position your planes and not lose them  during teh attack, it takes skill to read the map and support.

It also took skill to not lose your bombers, back when fighters were shooting bullets instead of rubber duckies in dogfights, same applied to suppresing the enemy.

 

 

 

The issue here is an ability that defies all logic, mind you this is not a 90s arcade game and I don't understand why we need this super arcady ability here.

Ability that makes some captain skills useless, punishing newer players way too severely for not knowing how to play and it comes at the price of nerfed performance of all fighters in a dogfight across the board.

 

I remember, long time ago, that we had to control the engagement to win an unfair dogfingh, we had to think, how we were gonna position our planes to deny a larger area or minimize our loses ... it was fun.

Now 1 squadron can wipe out multiple squadrons, but somehow derp out and fail to kill 1 squadron or run out of ammo.

 

The idea of punishing stacked squadrons is good, the implementation is horrible. It should have been a suppresion ability, that dealt damage to all planes and panicked them, not wipe them out.

 

What we have now is a seal clubbing ability.

 

Again, cherry picking one feature over another.

 

You know what defies logic? AAA hitting planes just flying over a ship at max altitude, planes being more visible than ships, CVs only sending a small part of their force into attacks, planes being way too slow compared to ships (or their real life counterparts, some so slow that they would struggle to stay airborne).

 

Also, yes, they kill many planes quickly, as that's the entire point. By that "logic" they should just remove defensive fire too (an ability just as illogical and as likely to screw over a newbie in a saipan).

 

You know what would be stupid? Fighting against 3 squads of superior fighters and not even being able to outplay him with skill.

 

Also, there's been no "nerf" to fighters to accommodate this skill.

 

Lastly, while the rear gunner skill is, and always was, pretty useless. It's still just as good if you're able to watch your planes and avoid strafes. And I know that I certainly still use regular point-n-click attacks.

 

 

As for seal clubbing. How is that different from tirpitzes and atagos blindly sailing into torpedoes, air attacks or citadel hits? Should we remove HE from tirpitzes so their newbie players won't accidentally fall into the skill trap of using that over AP? Make their ships immune to fire or torpedoes? Remove citadels from their ships altogether? And while a screwup on the part of a newbie in a saipan might hurt him, a screwup in any other high tier premium is likely to send you back to port. Where do you place the line on where skill beats ship stats?

 

And really, you want the game to change to accommodate people buying themselves into tiers they have no experience to play in yet?

[Kann_Nix_Extreme]

@Seinta:

 

You can use click and forget with all types of planes but consider this:

 

Auto torps < manual torps

Auto bombs < manual bombs

 

The performance of the very same group is improved by skill demanding player input. If that's OK for bomber groups, why is it wrong for fighters?

 

Auto Strafe < manual Strafe

 

is absolutely the right thing IMO 

[SV_Kompresor]

 

No, everything else seems to fit in, but that fighters just shooting into the air and hits multiply targets never happend in history

 

Do you know what else has never happened in history? Many of the ships in wows, infinite ammo, none of the battles in this game (pvp or otherwise) never happened like they do here, the UI doesn't exist in real life, etc..... dude...it's a game

[Seinta]

 

Again, cherry picking one feature over another.

 

You know what defies logic? AAA hitting planes just flying over a ship at max altitude, planes being more visible than ships, CVs only sending a small part of their force into attacks, planes being way too slow compared to ships (or their real life counterparts, some so slow that they would struggle to stay airborne).

 

Also, yes, they kill many planes quickly, as that's the entire point. By that "logic" they should just remove defensive fire too (an ability just as illogical and as likely to screw over a newbie in a saipan).

 

You know what would be stupid? Fighting against 3 squads of superior fighters and not even being able to outplay him with skill.

 

Also, there's been no "nerf" to fighters to accommodate this skill.

 

Lastly, while the rear gunner skill is, and always was, pretty useless. It's still just as good if you're able to watch your planes and avoid strafes. And I know that I certainly still use regular point-n-click attacks.

 

 

As for seal clubbing. How is that different from tirpitzes and atagos blindly sailing into torpedoes, air attacks or citadel hits? Should we remove HE from tirpitzes so their newbie players won't accidentally fall into the skill trap of using that over AP? Make their ships immune to fire or torpedoes? Remove citadels from their ships altogether? And while a screwup on the part of a newbie in a saipan might hurt him, a screwup in any other high tier premium is likely to send you back to port. Where do you place the line on where skill beats ship stats?

 

And really, you want the game to change to accommodate people buying themselves into tiers they have no experience to play in yet?

 

I'm not cherry picking, simply becase some features are there for balance. Starfing kills the CV balance.

As I said, before the major change, you had to control the engagement, in that case, the Saipan with his tier 9 fighters would lose, becase his oponent lured his planes over a fiendly Cruiser.

 

There was a nerf to fighters to acomodate the ability, right now a Midway's top fighters do 80 DPS, they did over 140 before the nerf, not counting modules and skills.

Also when I said seal clubbing, I didn't mean people buying their way to tier 8, I mean people going into tier 4/5 games and destroying newbie players, who just picked up a CV.

There is a huge differance between dogfinghting a noob and strafing his planes without him knowing whats going on.

 

 

The performance of the very same group is improved by skill demanding player input. If that's OK for bomber groups, why is it wrong for fighters?

 

Auto Strafe < manual Strafe

 

is absolutely the right thing IMO 

 

The problem is, we don't have auto strafe, we have 1on1 attacks, attacks that right now are way worse than a starfing run.

Strafing aside, why did fighters have to be nerfed, making them worse in 1on1 fights, but absurdly lethal when strafing.

 

I don't understand what was the problem when positioning was the name of the game for fighters? 

If the ability acted as a suppression tool that would do damage to the affected planes and panic them, it would have been more plausible.