more high tier japanese destroyer changes

[Devantejah]

 

Unless you keept the T VIII or a ship in between. So yes, there is no problem if you grind the line and always sell the ships. If you collect ships or want to play some ships then the problem emerges. 

 

Aye, that is the problem with it, I agree.

 

One of the destroyers would have to be without a captain with 15 points, but it's not much we can do about it in the meantime.

[Vulgarny]

Someone probably wrote that already but there are no changes to IJN DD in 5.6 patch.[edited]. They posted first draw of patch notes, and someone in EU office that is being paid for is not doing his job and didnt check if something was changed. RU forum reds(Moderators/Dev/Staff) have hard laugh how stupid and lazy EU office is.

[Black0rchid]

 I can speak for shimakaze right  now. I played fubuki and kagero long ago. Shima has 5,9 km detection range. 9,6 km torpedos are just enough to attack any ship. 8 km ones i didnt try yet because i need to reserarch them first and i dont want to spend money for it now. And i dont remember the speed of fubuki. Kagero is slow yes. But its still faster than any bb or ca at its tier. Shima is only slower than khabarovsk.

 

you can speak about anything you want, this is the internet, thing is you might get trolled for the nonsense opinions and statements you make. Fact is like it or not last patch was a big nerf on the Kagero and on the Shimakaze,  You had experienced players say it, you had novice players say it .... it is a fact beyond discussion here.

 

Now the problem has been created for those that actually played the shimakaze and enjoyed it, for those that didn't, well it's just another ship nerf that makes their life in game easier.  Claiming that the the shimakaze now requires more skill to play is one of the most stupid observations that can be made, it's insulting all those (good or not) that actually played the shimakaze, it's saying now you need to develop some skill to play it, skill you lacked before. For those that say it ...stfu you have really no clue whatsoever ....

 

After analyzing the last patch notes I started noticing a trend, they are seriously buffing the Cruisers, looks like wargaming is looking to make the cruisers kings of the game. It won't be long untill we see the usual whiners here saying they can t do anything with BB because of the DD's fires and now the CA's fires. Three of the main types of ships have been screwed beyond repair, the American Carrier line the IJN Carrier line and the IJN destroyer line. Those 3 were the main control factor for cruisers... so we will see a change in the direction of the game a new balance. I have a feeling that we will be seeing alot more cruisers in high tier, however what was done to the IJN DD line needs to be rectified as they are part of the game and they are part of the ecosystem, an ecosystem that is now very unbalanced.

[Vulgarny]

WUT? I never felt controled in CA by any CV nor DD..............BBs on other hand.........

[ghostbuster_]

 

you can speak about anything you want, this is the internet, thing is you might get trolled for the nonsense opinions and statements you make. Fact is like it or not last patch was a big nerf on the Kagero and on the Shimakaze,  You had experienced players say it, you had novice players say it .... it is a fact beyond discussion here.

 

it is change of gameplay. nerf for long range spammers, nothing changed for people who actually got close and torped people, and buff for the one who actually want to take more risks.

 

Now the problem has been created for those that actually played the shimakaze and enjoyed it, for those that didn't, well it's just another ship nerf that makes their life in game easier.  Claiming that the the shimakaze now requires more skill to play is one of the most stupid observations that can be made, it's insulting all those (good or not) that actually played the shimakaze, it's saying now you need to develop some skill to play it, skill you lacked before. For those that say it ...stfu you have really no clue whatsoever ....

 

oh i see an other tomato shimakaze player here.  you may take it as an insult i dont care. before the changes 16 km super stealth and fast torpedos... dont seem like requieres any skill. so you can cry more here or you can try to improve yourself and adapt to new gameplay which requires skill. the choice is yours.

 

After analyzing the last patch notes I started noticing a trend, they are seriously buffing the Cruisers, looks like wargaming is looking to make the cruisers kings of the game. It won't be long untill we see the usual whiners here saying they can t do anything with BB because of the DD's fires and now the CA's fires. Three of the main types of ships have been screwed beyond repair, the American Carrier line the IJN Carrier line and the IJN destroyer line. Those 3 were the main control factor for cruisers... so we will see a change in the direction of the game a new balance. I have a feeling that we will be seeing alot more cruisers in high tier, however what was done to the IJN DD line needs to be rectified as they are part of the game and they are part of the ecosystem, an ecosystem that is now very unbalanced.

 

there is a good balance between CAs and BBs right now. good CA players can wreck any ship and good BB players can also kill CAs quiete easy. (assuming BBs are counters to CAs) i dont believe its gonna be broken after 5.6. and if you unhide your stats i can know, who i am talking with.

 

[th3freakie]

As a fellow IJN DD captain, I don't see how this was a nerf. The top range torpedos were so bad they should never be used anyway, so removing them is absolutely inconsequential. It would even have the positive effect of silencing anyone who says bad statistics on IJN DDs are a result of using the bad torps.

[Spellfire40]

I wouldnt go as far as saying they buffing CA to be king. High end CAs were and are in dire Need of a buff because most do less damage then T4-6 ones thanks to dieing to BB Shells in 2 salvos.. But the constant nerfing of all classses that are good agist BBs is a bit of strange. Torpedo nerf here,AA buff there (as if there were many T9-10 CVs out there i see one in like 20 T8 plus games). Anybody here thinks US BBs Need even more AA?......

[ghostbuster_]

I wouldnt go as far as saying they buffing CA to be king. High end CAs were and are in dire Need of a buff because most do less damage then T4-6 ones thanks to dieing to BB Shells in 2 salvos.. But the constant nerfing of all classses that are good agist BBs is a bit of strange. Torpedo nerf here,AA buff there (as if there were many T9-10 CVs out there i see one in like 20 T8 plus games). Anybody here thinks US BBs Need even more AA?......

 

there were not untouchable but the buff was also not necessary. i didnt play open test thou. lets wait and see how it goes. and btw about fubuki and kagero my bad. i checked their speed and they are the same as ibuki. and they are actually 0,5 kts slower than atago. 

[Ictogan]

 

 

If it was a buff to good players, why do most good players choose the 12km torps now? Before, the torps had 15km range and 1.7km detection range, so you could still choose TA and have them at 72kts over 12km. Now if you choose the 12km torps with torp acceleration you can get merely 9.6km out of them, which is sometimes too little against targets sailing away or when there is a large risk of being killed when closing in due to planes and/or radar.

The 8km ones are nice, but a 4kts buff over the old 12km 72kts doesn't make up for the 4km less range and increased spotting distance. So it was definitely a nerf from the old 12kts torps, no matter whether someone is now using the 8km, 9.6km or 12km torps.

Not gonna complain about the Shima being weak now, but calling it a buff to players who take risks is BS and I will continue to hold my position that the Kagero got fucked over by changes which were only really targeted at the Shima. The Kagero simply doesn't have the speed or guns to make it work with a risky play style.

[Kartoffelmos]

After analyzing the last patch notes I started noticing a trend, they are seriously buffing the Cruisers, looks like wargaming is looking to make the cruisers kings of the game.

 

So giving high-tier KM cruisers less crappy HE-shells is making battleships outdated now? 

Or do you just have to complain about something, even though battleships get even better against their supposed counter (carriers)?

[lankylad11_lankylad]

Shima is fine still cos it has a lot more torpedos than a gearing in broadside, is faster and i assume much more agile having played the gearing.  shimas torps also still do 3-5k more damage each per hit than gearing ones.  Gearing guns are good in certain circumstances but the shell arc makes HE spamming at 10.5km very hard to do.  It is Kagero that has been royally screwed, Fletcher is the best tier 9 DD period.  The change that hit US CV's the hardest at high tier was removing the second TB without making DBs good enough to replace.   The Hakuryu is by far the superior tier 10 CV these days.  It used to be Midway was the king of strike and Hakuryu was the better AS CV whilst retaining a punch.  They take strike away from midway, but they leave Hakuryu alone :/ most tier 10 CVs want to go strike and do piles of damage.  I don't sail my Midway any more because it is not the ship i worked so hard to get, and I will not sail it till i get AP Dive Bombs for it, or the second TB back.  I actually think they need to go back to the drawing board with CVs and rework them before the IJN premium and RN ones come next year *fingers crossed*.  Unlike the shima nerf, the midway nerf was totally unnecessary.  If you reverted it, i guarantee you would see more CVs at high tier.  Midway was not overpowered.  Midway got its damage against BBs who sailed alone, BBs whined and instead of adapting and getting escort continued to sail alone, so midway seemed to be OP.  WG should have told BB drivers to use brains instead of just bowing to them.  i agree with the nerfing of shima, because those 3 man shima squads spamming 45 torpedos at 67kts from 20km away made for campy games, and that needed to stop.  i have no problem with a shima getting into 10km, targeting a BB and one shotting it, in that case i say well played to the shima driver

[lankylad11_lankylad]

These massive AA Buffs are utter BS anyway,  a CV should be able to carry out a full attack wave on a lone unescorted enemy BB of the same tier and come away with the vast majority of his planes still in tact.  You need a Tier 9 CV to be able to hit tier 8 + US BBs already, so what is it going to be after these buffs.  The counter to CVs is defensive fire, as it should be.  not the massed AA fire of one single BB, not even Montana

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

and what about the OP Benson ??

 

[IceyJones]

its WG logic, to nerf the least damage producing class even further......

because of railsailing noobs, that complain about torps every match

 

well done WG.....

russian logic......make things worse by nerfing, instead buffing other things to counter a problem

 

why not reduce rudder shift time of BBs? then aware captains can dodge most torps while the bad players will get hit as before....

 

but no....that would reward skillful play.......and this is not fitting to the company politics of WG.......

 

edit:

guess what will happen, when many switch to gearing now.....

nerfhammer incomming here also.....

im at benson now....fletcher near.....looking forward to the ROF-nerfes that will come for these ships soon, when more play them ;-)

[Mayv]

and what about the OP Benson ??

 

What OP Benson?

 

Can you give us any reasons as to why you think it is OP?

 

The Benson is an all round ship. The Fubuki focuses on torpedoes (and the least affected by the recent changes). The Tashkent focuses on guns. I would say the Fubuki is the highlight of the post Minekaze IJN DDs.

[Mayv]

its WG logic, to nerf the least damage producing class even further......

because of railsailing noobs, that complain about torps every match

 

 

But IJN DDs arent supposed to do much damage, despite being the "hard counter" to the targets with the highest HP pool.

[robihr]

 

But IJN DDs arent supposed to do much damage, despite being the "hard counter" to the targets with the highest HP pool.

 

dd arent hard counter to bb. that is obvious if you look at the stats. average damage of any dd cant kill one bb on the same tier...

[Black0rchid]

it is change of gameplay. nerf for long range spammers, nothing changed for people who actually got close and torped people, and buff for the one who actually want to take more risks.

 

oh i see an other tomato shimakaze player here.  you may take it as an insult i dont care. before the changes 16 km super stealth and fast torpedos... dont seem like requieres any skill. so you can cry more here or you can try to improve yourself and adapt to new gameplay which requires skill. the choice is yours.

 

there is a good balance between CAs and BBs right now. good CA players can wreck any ship and good BB players can also kill CAs quiete easy. (assuming BBs are counters to CAs) i dont believe its gonna be broken after 5.6. and if you unhide your stats i can know, who i am talking with.

 

 

 

[edited]

[Mayv]

 

dd arent hard counter to bb. that is obvious if you look at the stats. average damage of any dd cant kill one bb on the same tier...

 

So what should IJN DDs be doing in a match, I wonder?

 

[robihr]

 

So what should IJN DDs be doing in a match, I wonder?

 

 

be sunk idk why you expect a counter class to BB? that is unrealistic..

[ghostbuster_]

quoted post removed

 

[edited]

[Kartoffelmos]

If you read what I wrote you would have understood that, that is not what I said. I am not complaining about anything, I am stating facts, if you have doubts go read the patch notes, it is what it is. The problem is that Cruisers rarely did the job they were supposed to do, hence the buffs. What you will see now is IJN DD's disappear from tier 8 onward, and carriers fade out in a fast manner. If you actually think that is an improvement to the game, well it is your opinion and you are entitled to it, as far as I am concerned any ship being made obsolete or barely playble is a decrease in the variety pool....and that is bad in my book  as I think the more the merrier.

 

The problem is that neither carriers nor destroyers were particularly good at countering cruisers, so a nerf to those classes hardly means anything. Destroyers "countered" cruisers by having them permanently spotted (and thus getting deleted by battleships, the real counter), yes, but that has nothing to do with IJN destroyers and their torps, as any (non-RU) destroyer is capable of doing that. As for carriers, they only countered cruisers when the carrier in question was of a higher tier and/or attacked a cruiser with terrible AA (and/or defensive fire on cooldown).

 

Will better HE on KM cruisers or better AA on cruiser really do anything for the class? Not really, since the HE is still crap and the AA buff was mostly given to ship with terrible AA to begin with. On the other hand, battleships got better stats in AA (which already were quite good on higher tiers) and for some, in firepower and mobility. Since both of these changes actively help them against their so-called counter, it is more of a buff to battleships and their survivability and thus I really fail to see how a buff to the cruisers' counter is supposed to be a buff to the cruisers themselves.

[lankylad11_lankylad]

the hard counter to BB was CV and in particular the Midway class of aircraft carrier, as well as the Hakuryu.  Unfortunately, the Midway is now not an affective BB counter, and it will not be so, until it gets AP Dive Bombs or the second TB back.  Midway was my favourite ship by a distance before they killed it, now i don't play it at all cos its pointless.  A tier 10 CV in strike loadout is supposed to be able to hammer a BB with its full fury in one wave, but Midway cannot do that any more

[robihr]

the hard counter to BB was CV and in particular the Midway class of aircraft carrier, as well as the Hakuryu.  Unfortunately, the Midway is now not an affective BB counter, and it will not be so, until it gets AP Dive Bombs or the second TB back.  Midway was my favourite ship by a distance before they killed it, now i don't play it at all cos its pointless.  A tier 10 CV in strike loadout is supposed to be able to hammer a BB with its full fury in one wave, but Midway cannot do that any more

 

cv is also not hard counter to BB cause on higher tiers you dont see them every battle. you see them 1/5 or 1/10 battles.

dd is not hard counter to BB cause they dont do enough average damage to sink BB.

[Black0rchid]

quoted post removed

 

Unlike you, I don't need to brag upon my stats or claim how glorious I am, because in fact you ain't. Anyone that needs to show their stats to feel like they earn something or belong somewhere .... is nothing more than a keyboard hero, which you have shown to be on several occasions.The only thing I need to tell you regarding my stats, is above 50% and over 2k games played solo and mostly in the evenings (yeah not many cool kids around at that time). So I know enough to talk and that is all. If you are mad, just take a chill pill.

[edited]

 

 

 

The problem is that neither carriers nor destroyers were particularly good at countering cruisers, so a nerf to those classes hardly means anything. Destroyers "countered" cruisers by having them permanently spotted (and thus getting deleted by battleships, the real counter), yes, but that has nothing to do with IJN destroyers and their torps, as any (non-RU) destroyer is capable of doing that. As for carriers, they only countered cruisers when the carrier in question was of a higher tier and/or attacked a cruiser with terrible AA (and/or defensive fire on cooldown).

 

Will better HE on KM cruisers or better AA on cruiser really do anything for the class? Not really, since the HE is still crap and the AA buff was mostly given to ship with terrible AA to begin with. On the other hand, battleships got better stats in AA (which already were quite good on higher tiers) and for some, in firepower and mobility. Since both of these changes actively help them against their so-called counter, it is more of a buff to battleships and their survivability and thus I really fail to see how a buff to the cruisers' counter is supposed to be a buff to the cruisers themselves.

 

The best spoters for destroyers were carriers. If your team knew were they were and they actually knew how to play they would delete them in no time. I will only talk about AC up to tier 8 as I lack the experience above, and I can tell you that if you take out the russians and the americans, they were deleted with 1 or 2 torp runs followed by bombers. That was my experience till now, but then again I played IJN carriers. Also on the same note Destroyers like the Shiamkaze and Fubuki had their strenght in area denial, and that they could do be it against cruisers or BB, and that has been taken away in high tiers.

 

As it stands now if you so much as pass above one of the cruisers you will loose the airgroup or it will be so diminished that it won't have any practical effect. Given the HE Buff to the cruisers, yeah they will be setting fires much easier hence I believe that you will see alot more fires in game than you used to see, and you will see alot more BB go down for it. If you add to that the fact that at high tiers you will now start seeing only DD's that rely mainly on fire power.......

 

So in the end that is what I think will happen in high tiers now........guess we will have to wait and see.