more high tier japanese destroyer changes

[T0byJug]

 

 

 

 

 

She has a FINE Asian Rear

[Kurbain]

Why bother about the range of the Gearing torpedoes in particular?

The ridiculous spotting distance of IJN torpedoes is a valid concern, but why is it an issue if the Gearing torpedoes go 16,5 KM and the IJN can't? You don't need more than 12 KM to be an effective DD and any torpedo hit on a target past 10 KM is mostly luck anyway.

Furthermore the Shimakaze still fires more torpedoes a minute than the Gearing and the IJN torpedoes do quite a bit more damage.
Gearing torpedoes: 17900
Shimakaze 12 KM torpedoes: 23766
Nobody ever seems to bring up that large damage difference.

A Shimakaze salvo coming your way has a max damage of 356.490 versus 179.000 for the Gearing. That's twice as much and much more likely to kill a player in one-shot, which is probably what bother players the most about the Shima. Having a torpedo wall showing up out of nowhere and killing you in one strike. A Gearing salvo is a lot less likely to cause a one-shot and allows the player to heal the received damage and react to the presence of the Gearing.

 

I can understand why WG wants players to spot IJN torpedoes earlier than US ones considering the much higher amount of potential damage coming their way, but I agree that the spotting distance at this point is a bit ridiculous considering the buffs to Vigilance and Target Acquisition.
In my opinion IJN DDs should be able to fire their torpedoes more often, but deal less damage. That will allow players to survive the first torpedo salvo more often and gives them a chance to react afterwards by either retreating and healing or charging the DD down.


Anyway, it shouldn't be surprising that the Gearing stays as it is since the torpedo spam is what people complained about and most of it was caused by the Shimakaze simply because it is a lot more popular and fires 50% more torpedoes per salvo.I bet if everyone suddenly starts playing Gearing and we have matches with 10 Gearings in them the Gearing will receive its nerf, too.

 

tbh the amount of bias nerfs are to damn high <- reason why i hate playing F2P games

 

Bias nerfs? A bias for what? WG/Lesta are definitely not biased towards the US considering US ships got the worst performance overall.
They are also not biased against the IJN considering they got the highest amount of powerful ships in the game. IJN dominate the high-tier gameplay in all classes. (Well, except DDs now that they have been nerfed)
I don't agree with the way the IJN DDs have been nerfed and IJN DDs should be stronger, but I still appreciate that now at least in one category the IJN aren't the best at the high-tiers.

 

Since I just brought up biases I wanted to comment on something else:
I find it strange whenever somebody talks about Russian bias considering if there is any bias in this game it would have to be for the IJN. All the IJN CVs, Kongo, Fuso, Amagi, Yamato, Atago, Zao, the low-tier IJN DDs and the old Shimakaze are very dominant at their tiers. That's probably more dominant ships that the other nations in the game got combined.

[N00b32]

 

if they dont have 5th captain skill yet in their top tier DDs, there is something wrong...

 

Nothing is wrong. The pure idea that a captain skill is needed shows the poor design decisions. In such cases you usually delete the skill and merge it with the ship. 

[T0byJug]

 

Do you not think you should first sail these ships before coming to that conclusion, you don't seem to know what you are saying. It's like me telling the captains of the Hindenburgh, Yamato (or any other ship that i have not sailed) how to play the game correctly, when in reality i don't have any knowledge to their strengths and weaknesses

 

Well we do not know if you have sailed the ships as you hide behind Anonymity.

 

I have played all the tier 8 DD's and the Fubuki is very comparable to the Benson.

 

Fubuki is also a very good Gun boat in the correct situation. In my Fubuki i have not gone for stealth I have AFT and Hit point increase on my 15 point commander. when I get to 16 i will take turret rotation

 

Kagaroo I am struggling but as she is stock and with a 10 point commander! i am reserving jugment on her at the moment

[Spellfire40]

I don't understand all the Kagerou hate here again.

Of the higher tier IJN DDs she's the one I feel most comfortable in.

Already played her really agressive before the 0.5.5 patch and since the patch where I got the 8km F3 torps she became an even better fit for how I play her as 10km was usually the maximum range I used torps on even before the patch.

Now I have a 17 point captain on her skilled on torp/gunnery hybrid which makes it a lot easier to play her than with an unskilled captain but you should usually have gotten enough xp at t9 to have at least a 15 point captain available.

If the server stats agree with the general opinion in the forum I wouldn't mind another buff for her in the future but for now I'm pleased with how she is and will enjoy playing her.

 

Shimakaze getting the better torps from the beginning is nice for those on the way to her while I did never really like the slow 15km torps on Fubuki and am glad to already be past that for a long time.

According to wows-numbers.com Udaloi is the t9 DD with the highest damage and average xp starting at top 50% of the players so we might see a nerf for her in the future or IJN and USN DDs will be buffed (while keeping the torpedoes similar to how they are at the moment) to be on par with her.

 

Then Tell me were she has any upside agist a Fubuki.

Fubuki has the same stealth  about the same Speed actually work Ing AA for a DD one more of the same Torps better MM.

 

The one thing she miss out is the Torp reload Module and the torp reload skill wich is suicide with 8 km torps in a slow DD.

[Nechrom]

Why bother about the range of the Gearing torpedoes in particular?

 

The ridiculous spotting distance of IJN torpedoes is a valid concern, but why is it an issue if the Gearing torpedoes go 16,5 KM and the IJN can't? You don't need more than 12 KM to be an effective DD and any torpedo hit on a target past 10 KM is mostly luck anyway.

 

Furthermore the Shimakaze still fires more torpedoes a minute than the Gearing and the IJN torpedoes do quite a bit more damage.

Gearing torpedoes: 17900

Shimakaze 12 KM torpedoes: 23766

Nobody ever seems to bring up that large damage difference.

 

A Shimakaze salvo coming your way has a max damage of 356.490 versus 179.000 for the Gearing. That's twice as much and much more likely to kill a player in one-shot, which is probably what bother players the most about the Shima. Having a torpedo wall showing up out of nowhere and killing you in one strike. A Gearing salvo is a lot less likely to cause a one-shot and allows the player to heal the received damage and react to the presence of the Gearing.

 

I can understand why WG wants players to spot IJN torpedoes earlier than US ones considering the much higher amount of potential damage coming their way, but I agree that the spotting distance at this point is a bit ridiculous considering the buffs to Vigilance and Target Acquisition.

In my opinion IJN DDs should be able to fire their torpedoes more often, but deal less damage. That will allow players to survive the first torpedo salvo more often and gives them a chance to react afterwards by either retreating and healing or charging the DD down.

 

 

Anyway, it shouldn't be surprising that the Gearing stays as it is since the torpedo spam is what people complained about and most of it was caused by the Shimakaze simply because it is a lot more popular and fires 50% more torpedoes per salvo.I bet if everyone suddenly starts playing Gearing and we have matches with 10 Gearings in them the Gearing will receive its nerf, too.

 

 

 

Bias nerfs? A bias for what? WG/Lesta are definitely not biased towards the US considering US ships got the worst performance overall.

They are also not biased against the IJN considering they got the highest amount of powerful ships in the game. IJN dominate the high-tier gameplay in all classes. (Well, except DDs now that they have been nerfed)

I don't agree with the way the IJN DDs have been nerfed and IJN DDs should be stronger, but I still appreciate that now at least in one category the IJN aren't the best at the high-tiers.

 

 

Since I just brought up biases I wanted to comment on something else:

I find it strange whenever somebody talks about Russian bias considering if there is any bias in this game it would have to be for the IJN. All the IJN CVs, Kongo, Fuso, Amagi, Yamato, Atago, Zao, the low-tier IJN DDs and the old Shimakaze are very dominant at their tiers. That's probably more dominant ships that the other nations in the game got combined.

 

We can bring up ship info all day long and try to draw conclusions from that. But looking at actual statistics of the ships we're talking about, is this reflected there? I would say definitely not.

The Shimakaze holds a marginal average damage lead over the other two, but since most of that damage is done to big ships it ends up with much lower average XP.

 

Whether you agree that there shouldn't be 20 km range torps or not, removing them or making them non-viable is a direct nerf to the DD. And nerfing something which isn't doing well in the first place is not the smartest thing you can do.

It was argued for as long as I can remember that the power increase in IJN DDs post-tier 5 was way lower than any other ship. Their ability to do damage barely increased at all, and as more and more countermeasures were added this became more and more pronounced.

Now we have an end of the line IJN DD with all the flaws of it's predecessors (save for straight up max speed) forced into melee range armed with nothing more than what it had in the CBT. It's not a brawling DD, it never was, everyone agreed it wasn't. Now they want to sell us it as something which suddenly should fight at 6-8km.

Where is the accompanying agility buff, gunnery buff, survivability buff etc? How is this supposed to work? I honestly want to know.

[Kurbain]

 

Nothing is wrong. The pure idea that a captain skill is needed shows the poor design decisions. In such cases you usually delete the skill and merge it with the ship. 

 

You brought up a good point and I agree.

Captain skills should not be mandatory to make a ship playable.

They should merely enhance the gameplay experience and tactical options of a player. Provide them with more individuality.

 

IJN DDs could receive skills light these:

 

Torpedo propulsion expertise:

+20% Torpedo speed

-15% torpedo damage

 

Gangboat style:

+50% IJN turret rotation

-10% torpedo damage

 

Those kind of skills would allow players to customize their gameplay and achieve better results if they adapt without penalizing those that are lacking the captain points to get them because they don't really make your ship stronger, just different.

[N00b32]

 

The Shimakaze holds a marginal average damage lead over the other two, but since most of that damage is done to big ships it ends up with much lower average XP.

 

 

Do you take the overall stats of all ships ever played in all versions ?

 

Because from last weeks stats I make three conclusions:

 

- Shimakaze already is the T 10 DD with the worst average damage.

- The best DD stats are on EU, on RU and US all DD stats are even worse.

- Shimakaze is the only T 10 DD with an average winrating < 50%. 

 

 

The only thing I take from the removal of the mod 1 torps is, that they had an idea of short range suicide DD, the players didn't like it and now they force the players. Well, good luck with the idea. I wish you well. Because a large amount of DD players is already burned and had to respec their captains to get rid of torpedo acceleration. 

[robihr]

 

Spartan1963 before commenting on other peoples stats. Why not unhide your own?

https://warships.today/player/530362218/eu/Spartan1963

 

he hid them exactly so you dont bring it up in a discussion

 

 

 

A Shimakaze salvo coming your way has a max damage of 356.490 versus 179.000 for the Gearing. That's twice as much and much more likely to kill a player in one-shot, which is probably what bother players the most about the Shima. Having a torpedo wall showing up out of nowhere and killing you in one strike. A Gearing salvo is a lot less likely to cause a one-shot and allows the player to heal the received damage and react to the presence of the Gearing.

if shima torps dont hit you still get 0 damage. btw that potential is BS cause most BB have torpedo belts, CA can dodge,  for DD 1-2 torps is enough.

[Nechrom]

 

Do you take the overall stats of all ships ever played in all versions ?

 

Because from last weeks stats I make three conclusions:

 

- Shimakaze already is the T 10 DD with the worst average damage.

- The best DD stats are on EU, on RU and US all DD stats are even worse.

- Shimakaze is the only T 10 DD with an average winrating < 50%. 

 

 

The only thing I take from the removal of the mod 1 torps is, that they had an idea of short range suicide DD, the players didn't like it and now they force the players. Well, good luck with the idea. I wish you well. 

 

Yes, I purposefully looked at the "all time" stats since I wanted to make it clear that the Shima never performed especially well.

[Kurbain]

 

We can bring up ship info all day long and try to draw conclusions from that. But looking at actual statistics of the ships we're talking about, is this reflected there? I would say definitely not.

The Shimakaze holds a marginal average damage lead over the other two, but since most of that damage is done to big ships it ends up with much lower average XP.

 

Weather you agree that there shouldn't be 20 km range torps or not, removing them or making them non-viable is a direct nerf to the DD. And nerfing something which isn't doing well in the first place is not the smartest thing you can do.

It was argued for as long as I can remember that the power increase in IJN DDs post-tier 5 was way lower than any other ship. Their ability to do damage barely increased at all, and as more and more countermeasures were added this became more and more pronounced.

Now we have an end of the line IJN DD with all the flaws of it's predecessors (save for straight up max speed) forced into melee range armed with nothing more than what it had in the CBT. It's not a brawling DD, it never was, everyone agreed it wasn't. Now they want to sell us it as something which suddenly should fight at 6-8km.

Where is the accompanying agility buff, gunnery buff, survivability buff etc? How is this supposed to work? I honestly want to know.

 

I agree with your sentiment. I mentioned myself that the Shimakaze was overnerfed and I don't approve of the way they are trying to "fix" IJN DDs.

IJN DDs should have the bestest, most awesomest torpedoes and detection of any DDs, which isn't really the case.

 

I was simply arguing against the people that are using the performance of the Gearing as an argument to support their views about the Shima nerfs and want it nerfed, too.

The Gearing is fine as it is right now. It fires 5 torpedoes less per salvo which deal less damage and it's a lot less popular.

 

The problem with the IJN DDs is that they are a lot harder to balance because nearly all their damage is torpedo-based unlike battleships, cruisers and US/VMF DDs.

Torpedo-based ships spend a lot more time undetected and their damage comes in heavy bursts.

More than any other class they often do no damage at all or wreck somebody with a single salvo.

 

As outlined above my proposal would be to reduce the burst potential but keep the damage over time the same. Would allow players to react more to the presence of DDs.

[_Flyto_]

Oh, FFS. I mostly had no issue with the previous nerf, but taking away the 15km torps too... they want IJN players to have a "more aggressive playstyle", but they also add radar and break smoke, and with the Fubuki and Kagero being being slower than the cruisers that will chase them, getting close tends to be pretty suicidal.

 

Compared to US DDs, high-tier IJN now have,

• Worse guns
• Worse torps (shorter range and spotted much sooner)
• Much lower speed
• Worse manoeuvrability.
• Better concealment

 

Did I miss somehting? What reason is there to play IJN? Apart from having put all the time into grinding the wrong line because I like torp play, and now finding I should have focussed on the USN ones all along...

 

 

[Spellfire40]

Thing is with the Russian DD's is that they are very very hard to play. Only committed (or committable ) and good players play them. Yes there stats tend to be good but just look how much less Russian DD's are played than any other nation

 

Last week 

Fletcher   11259

Kagaroo  12702 

Udaloi       2322

 

the reason is rather that if I want to play a gunboat id rather play a CA. RU DDs are CL with low HP minus their citadel area.

[Lightbaron]

 

Then Tell me were she has any upside agist a Fubuki.

Fubuki has the same stealth  about the same Speed actually work Ing AA for a DD one more of the same Torps better MM.

 

The one thing she miss out is the Torp reload Module and the torp reload skill wich is suicide with 8 km torps in a slow DD.

 

Fubuki does not have the F3 torpedoes but only the Type 93 Mod. 2 as top torpedoes. When I played her she only had the slow [edited]crap Type 90 torpedoes so while the gap got definitely smaller here with the 0.5.5. patch it still exists in form of the F3 torps. Reload time is a decent 80 seconds skilled and they deal enough damage to take out any ship in the game in one go. Also the chance to hit with multiple torps is higher than with the Type 93 torpedoes as it is a lot harder to dodge them.

I am also using the Torpedo Tube Mod.3 module together with the Torpedo Tube Mod.1 and don't have any problems with that.

In my 164 matches with Kagerou I had maybe 2 or 3 where I lost a torpedo launcher permanently which I would not consider to be all that bad.

It's true that her AA is crap and worse than Fubuki's but she has a better rudder shift time instead which already saved me a lot of times.

I don't know how the current Fubuki plays but Kagerou is so much better than the pre 0.5.5 Fubuki I know (which is also visible in my stats with them) and as already said in my other post I feel really comfortable playing her with the F3 torpedoes.

[Nechrom]

 

I agree with your sentiment. I mentioned myself that the Shimakaze was overnerfed and I don't approve of the way they are trying to "fix" IJN DDs.

IJN DDs should have the bestest, most awesomest torpedoes and detection of any DDs, which isn't really the case.

 

I was simply arguing against the people that are using the performance of the Gearing as an argument to support their views about the Shima nerfs and want it nerfed, too.

The Gearing is fine as it is right now. It fires 5 torpedoes less per salvo which deal less damage and it's a lot less popular.

 

The problem with the IJN DDs is that they are a lot harder to balance because nearly all their damage is torpedo-based unlike battleships, cruisers and US/VMF DDs.

Torpedo-based ships spend a lot more time undetected and their damage comes in heavy bursts.

More than any other class they often do no damage at all or wreck somebody with a single salvo.

 

As outlined above my proposal would be to reduce the burst potential but keep the damage over time the same. Would allow players to react more to the presence of DDs.

 

First of all regarding the part I bolded. Can we please stop using popularity as a balancing tool?

 

With that out of the way, regarding your proposal. How would you go about reducing the burst potential but keep the average damage the same? First you lower the damage of the torpedoes, easy enough. But how do you keep the damage output the same? Higher volume? Do you really think it would go over better with the general playerbase to have even more torpedoes in the water even with lower individual damage? I would say that most targets of torpedoes would probably want the opposite, that is less torpedoes.

My suggestion has always been to start removing the randomness of using torpedoes. I'd like to see plane torpedo spotting removed or heavily reduced and I'd also propose to have the perma spotting feature removed as well. That would begin to reduce the dice rolling associated with using torpedoes as your main weapon. If you want to benefit from someone spotting a DD launching torpedoes or spotting the torpedoes heading your way, you should have to pay attention when they are spotted, not when they start getting close to your ship and no one is there to spot them any longer.

That's how you can turn torpedoes into a legitimate primary weapon. Not having a thousand and one possible future events that could mess up your hit chance without being able to do anything about it.

[Ew_]

People are kind of missing the points, the F3 torpedoes are great yeah, but the shimakaze, as a hull and ship, is still balanced for the 20km lancers. Its sole advantage which is concealment isnt good enough for the 8KM torps in the current meta with radars, fast cruisers, other DDs tight turning circles without speed bleed and gun traverse. And the other torpedoes were nerfed too hard to be useful, even the 12KM ones are super easy to dodge for solo IJN BBs, they spot them and turn away way in good time.

WG should go all the way and remove the 12KM ones too for their experiment, the shimakaze was nerfed, not rebalanced. It recieved torps that are exclusively situational and depend on luck. Did you go somewhere where no radar/planes/enemy DDs went? great!

Faced any counter to DDs? Enjoy a dull game where you spend 10 minutes relocating to line up torpedo strikes, or waiting for a carrier or something else to engage enemy DDs so you can pop smoke and stealth-shoot them, as going guns is never an option otherwise. And if you run into a superior kagero? you are dead, he got the same guns as you and better concealment, and thus have no problems trading his tier9 for your tier10.

[creamgravy]

 

Fubuki = Type93 torpedoes are a bit OP at tier 8. It was already well balanced without them, the 15km potatoes have always been a bit rubbish.

Kagero = Redundant now Fubuki has the same (better?) torpedoes.

Shimakaze =  Balanced with the Type93 mod. 3 torpedoes as stock (terrible with the ones everyone could spot at 3km)

 

Oh yeah. Fletcher = Easy mode! ...and I don't even have have the upgraded torpedoes or a well trained captain yet 

 

 

 

 

[NoirLotus]

Ok, so let's give WG 3 months, just the time necessary for most DD players to now rush USN destroyers and torp walls will be back again.

 

Maybe then the devs will understand what they missed when they nerfed japanese torps ...

[T0byJug]

 

Do you take the overall stats of all ships ever played in all versions ?

 

Because from last weeks stats I make three conclusions:

 

- Shimakaze already is the T 10 DD with the worst average damage.

- The best DD stats are on EU, on RU and US all DD stats are even worse.

- Shimakaze is the only T 10 DD with an average winrating < 50%. 

 

 

The only thing I take from the removal of the mod 1 torps is, that they had an idea of short range suicide DD, the players didn't like it and now they force the players. Well, good luck with the idea. I wish you well. Because a large amount of DD players is already burned and had to respec their captains to get rid of torpedo acceleration. 

I think the issue with the Shimakazee was not that she was the strongest DD at tier 10 or 9 for that matter.It was that the only torp on her worth any thing was the 20km torps. all others were just inferior. This led to the less gifted DD players sitting back 15+km away launching random spreads of torpedoes across the map.This was infuriating to friend and foe alike. I think most of the better players closed the rang before firing anyway so love the new torps that were supplied in the last patch.  Shimakazee is popular because of her mythical status and also the fact that she used to be able to operate with almost no risk as she could stay way out of spotting range.

 

 

DD's in general are not very forgiving 1 mistake and you are dead! the stealth nature of Japanies DD's makes them easer to do OK in but harder to do well. What do i mean! well your camo douse not change when you shoot Torps. Gun boat commanders have to take more in to consideration when they fire there guns.  Jap DD closes with target and Sit awareness sparks. this means he has just clipped in to someone's detection turn pull back and disengage. Gun Boat captain is not spotted and fires his guns he could be up to 4km (6in RU DD's) inside a ships detection bubble. Much more difficult for him to disengage. That said a Gun boat can at least fight back easer than a Jap DD can. Maybe wargaming need to take a look at the guns of high tier Jap DD's again. Changes in the Torp handling could be a reason to increase the guns capabilities and or turret rotation.  Why kagaroo guns/turrets are inferior to Fubuki in every way when its the same guns in just abut the same turret is very strange

[Doerte]

Already stopped playing my Shimakaze 2 nerfs ago.

Now after the 3rd one, it is just getting silly. I can't see, why anyone would still play high-tier IJN DDs. At this point, I don't much care anymore, since I went on to play other trees.

Shimakaze recently lost 25% of her average-DMG output on the EU server. Her win-rate was below 50% before already (worst tierX DD by far)

So now she is not only outmatched by Gearing's speed, guns and turret rotation, but also by her torp range (12km max on Shima vs 16,5km on Gearing)? Lol! Good hob!
Ah... and I forgot: The mighty Khaba rules them all.


I just hope, WG will not kill other tech-trees, too... just when reached them.

Or maybe this is just a sneaky way to make me spend loads of dubloons to respec my captains, constantly.
Also: WG wisely decided to NOT include these changes on PT, but ninja them in later.
Says a lot, does it not?

The sad part is just, how much less we will be discussing the really, really good changes, coming with 0.5.6. (and there are a lot)

[Ictogan]

Why bother about the range of the Gearing torpedoes in particular?

-snip-

 

I'm not saying the Gearing torps are an issue, but they wanted to reduce long range torp spam, which makes it seem very illogical to let a DD have 16.5km torp range.

Also Fletcher is now arguably a better torpedo boat than the Kagero, but unlike the Kagero is also a good gunboat.

[Kurbain]

 

First of all regarding the part I bolded. Can we please stop using popularity as a balancing tool?

 

With that out of the way, regarding your proposal. How would you go about reducing the burst potential but keep the average damage the same? First you lower the damage of the torpedoes, easy enough. But how do you keep the damage output the same? Higher volume? Do you really think it would go over better with the general playerbase to have even more torpedoes in the water even with lower individual damage? I would say that most targets of torpedoes would probably want the opposite, that is less torpedoes.

My suggestion has always been to start removing the randomness of using torpedoes. I'd like to see plane torpedo spotting removed or heavily reduced and I'd also propose to have the perma spotting feature removed as well. That would begin to reduce the dice rolling associated with using torpedoes as your main weapon. If you want to benefit from someone spotting a DD launching torpedoes or spotting the torpedoes heading your way, you should have to pay attention when they are spotted, not when they start getting close to your ship and no one is there to spot them any longer.

That's how you can turn torpedoes into a legitimate primary weapon. Not having a thousand and one possible future events that could mess up your hit chance without being able to do anything about it.

 

 

I like your proposal, but that aside I don't see what's wrong about basing buffs and nerfs partially on popularity.

 

The Shimakaze shows very well that the popularity of a class alone can greatly change its effect on gameplay.

The strength of the Shimakaze has never been the issue. I don't think the Shimakaze could have ever been considered overpowered even though its first strike damage potential is awfully large.

The issue was that too many torpedoes were creeping around at the high-tiers and this was caused by its popularity, not its strength.

How else would you reduce the amount of Shimakazes except with a nerf or re-design? (I'm aware that capping the amount of DDs would be an option, but we already know that WG doesn't wanna do that.)

 

If the Yamato would be as popular as the Shimakaze and 5 to 10 of them appeared every single match then obviously the Yamato should receive a nerf as well because it would influence cruiser gameplay too much in those numbers.

[Doerte]

The Shimakaze shows very well that the popularity of a class alone can greatly change its effect on gameplay.

The strength of the Shimakaze has never been the issue. I don't think the Shimakaze could have ever been considered overpowered even though its first strike damage potential is awfully large.

The issue was that too many torpedoes were creeping around at the high-tiers and this was caused by its popularity, not its strength.

How else would you reduce the amount of Shimakazes except with a nerf or re-design? (I'm aware that capping the amount of DDs would be an option, but we already know that WG doesn't wanna do that.)

 

If the Yamato would be as popular as the Shimakaze and 5 to 10 of them appeared every single match then obviously the Yamato should receive a nerf as well because it would influence cruiser gameplay too much in those numbers.

Man, you just opened a whole new way of thinking to me. I am being serious. I just, while looking up recent Shima-stats, realized how MUCH more total games have been played by Shimas, opposed to the Gearing. And that is a valid point, since Gearings are supposed to be a means of countering Shimas. If there is a huge disparity between Gearings and Shimas, it kind of breaks the balance, the devs were going for.

Now I get it. Thanks.

What I still don't quite get, is how Shima got that popular in the first place. 

I feel it has always been more difficult to reliably be good in her (discount random torp hits), than in your average gun-boat.

(Objections only accepted from seasoned Shima captains :-P)

[T0byJug]

 

What I still don't quite get, is how Shima got that popular in the first place. 

I feel it has always been more difficult to realiably be good in her (discount random torp hits), than in your average gun-boat.

(Objections only accepted from seasoned Shima captains :-P)

Reputation... People thought they would become a gaming god when they got the Shima.

 

Also long range Torps and not using guns make her easy mode for passive play.

[aboomination]

Did you go somewhere where no radar/planes/enemy DDs went? great!

 

Rock, paper, scissors...let's think about it a bit

 

(1) Make US ships have exceptional AA again, meaning:

(2) Nerf all other nation's AA >> USN cruisers would have something unique going for them again (even the Atlanta) but they'd still have a "bad" effective firing range and no torps so there'd be no flood of USN CA. CV will be more popular, Montana would also profit.

(3) Give IJN DD the ability to stealth torp from reasonable distances (15 km) while buffing their torp detection range a bit >> balanced by CV aircraft  who are spotting dd and torps

(4) Nerf CV torp dmg to punish lone players a bit less and make CV yolo runs against strong AA less likely to be successful.

 

Problem: This requires much more teamplay, knowledge and better MM (because different ships would have different roles (much more pronounced than it is atm) so it won't happen. Instead WG gave everyone good AA so that the high potential strike dmg of cv (skill dependent) gets negated by some automatic feature (AA) (frustrating) so CV leave the game.Thus DD became very popular and numbers are a quality in itself. So they nerf DD because there's nobody left to counter them effectively (and if there were CV, lots of them would ignore their duty). 

 

Second Problem: On the other hand - making CV such an important class again has it's downsides. One or two players basically decide if the rest of their team will have a good or bad time.

 

Am I wrong? What are your thoughts?