more high tier japanese destroyer changes

[ColonelPete]

 

CV is hard counter to BB, but cause on higher battles it is seen only 1/5 or 1/10 battles it cant be seen as real hard counter if you cant count on them for every battle.

DD isnt doing enough damage to be real hard counter. even though psychologically they are great deterrent to BB, they arent doing nearly enough damage to really be a hard counter. .

 

lets take for example yamato. he is doing on average 1.3-2.1 CA hp pool damage

zao is doing on average 4 dd hp pool worth of damage

but if you take shimakaze on average is doing 40% pool, gearing 47% and khaba 58% (rounded yama hp pool to 100k)

 

and i didnt even took in the fact that BB can repair making their HP pool go over 100% easily.

 

This applies to all ships, not only high tier.

A counter class is not defined by average damage or kills/battle.

[HentaiKaiser]

So another nerf for IJN dds. For ijn dds, no torps no live , and they nerfed Torps again, gj WG !

[Verdius]

Seems that they changed their minds after all and left tier IX/X IJN DD's alone.

 

For now.....

 

CV is hard counter to BB

Which is why they buffed high tier US BB AAA  

[VeteranGamer84]

Seems that they changed their minds after all and left tier IX/X IJN DD's alone.

 

For now.....

 

Yup, The 20 km and 15 km torps are still there.

[Elenortirion]

Seems that they changed their minds after all and left tier IX/X IJN DD's alone.

 

For now.....

 

well acually the info about removing torpas should not get into widely posted patch notes - that idea was already dropped on a supertest

 

but someone, somewhere when getting patch notes to EU and NA regions have pulled the old version

 

[i can't link source atm, some stuff in russian forums and I believe someone from WG have made a single post on it somewhere on this forum]

[Capra76]

 

CV is hard counter to BB, but cause on higher battles it is seen only 1/5 or 1/10 battles it cant be seen as real hard counter if you cant count on them for every battle.

DD isnt doing enough damage to be real hard counter. even though psychologically they are great deterrent to BB, they arent doing nearly enough damage to really be a hard counter. .

 

 

The problem with that theory is CV's mirror MM, which means that any advantage one team gets in BB needs to be countered with a disadvantage in CA/DD, but how can the MM be said to be balanced if DD are not part of the rock-paper-scissors and a T9 DD does no more damage than a T7.

 

CV are a class that sits above all others, essentially fighting their own battle against the enemy CV, they have no hard counter of their own so how can they be part of R-P-S?

 

The R-P-S model is broken at the minute, BB are a very strong counter to CA and CA can strongly counter DD, but both BB and CV have no effective counters.

[Taffus]

Just as with the Mogami, Shimas are becoming a rare sight. WG solution to the so called torpedo spam is having them mothballed. Then when everybody gives up on this ship, you will see US and Russian dds nerfed, to promote UK and German dds.... I fear the Shima will become even rarer.

[KaraMon]

Shimas becoming rare cause every potato playing it use 20 km torps, fail with them and emoragequit because evil WG nerfed their ship. Only few players realised that they can use 12 km torps and still be dangerous on the battlefield

[Taffus]

Shimas becoming rare cause every potato playing it use 20 km torps, fail with them and emoragequit because evil WG nerfed their ship. Only few players realised that they can use 12 km torps and still be dangerous on the battlefield

 

That is so easy to conclude.

I think, even the better or dedicated players who were used to play the Shima at close and mid range, AND that were prepared to take the challenge with the new developments (torp nerfs, radar, and more US/RU dds), are dropping. I always loved to use the Shima close range (with 5,9 detectability). So much fun to launch 15 torps point blank at 7km or so. 

These players can do the same playing style in a Gearing or even Fletcher with much more fun factors, and better results. 

I even tried the 12km torps with torp acceleration. Reducing torps to 9km range but with very fast speed. It is suicidal. You will so easily get caught. And once you get caught the Shima is mostly in trouble.

 

And that is what you see. The Shimas easily die and hardly make an impact on the game any more. So one could easily conclude the other way: 

"Shimas becoming rare because the good and dedicated players left (and play Kageros, Fubukis and Gearings now) and only the potatoes (who finally reached Tier 10 and just need to try it) are still playing with long range torps that can be seen from the moon."

 

Besides statistics mentioned above already clearly marked that even the top players are seriously having worse results with the Shima.

[CavScorpion_2014]

I stopped climbing the IJN DD line with all the stuff on the server regarding nerfs, finished the Hatsu, sold it and rolled back the captain to a Minekaze

[Mayv]

Shimas becoming rare cause every potato playing it use 20 km torps, fail with them and emoragequit because evil WG nerfed their ship. Only few players realised that they can use 12 km torps and still be dangerous on the battlefield

 

The opposite reason as to why the Shimas average damage dropped post nerfs. "All the potatoes are playing it and cant make it work now". Wasnt you who said it, but why do people assume that a ship is only played by bad players?

 

I dont play my Shima now since the Gearing fills a similar role and is better in my opinion. I have also been playing RU DDs recently.

[GhostRiderMax123]

my own opinnon is that the max range of all torps should be no more than 10 km because I think that would go a long way to stopping masses of torps swimming across the map

[Elenortirion]

my own opinnon is that the max range of all torps should be no more than 10 km because I think that would go a long way to stopping masses of torps swimming across the map

 

if that was meant to be case then  they should also remove all those 12, 11, 9.6 radar consumables as well - cause I don't believe they'll give cruiser hp to DDs....

[GhostRiderMax123]

 

if that was meant to be case then  they should also remove all those 12, 11, 9.6 radar consumables as well - cause I don't believe they'll give cruiser hp to DDs....

 

If it stops the mass of torp spam in high tier games I am all for it.

[Mayv]

my own opinnon is that the max range of all torps should be no more than 10 km because I think that would go a long way to stopping masses of torps swimming across the map

 

We should cut all gun ranges to 10km too. It would stop BBs sitting at the map border.

[Taffus]

 

If it stops the mass of torp spam in high tier games I am all for it.

 

It is a stuborn assumtion that somehow almost made it to be considered a fact. I think there is no torpedo spam. And if there was one, it surely is over by now. Unless you consider it spam every time you see more than 2 waves of torps... Or you simply dont want to see torps in the game... Or should we also consider all the HE shells a spam? So much of them!... Ofcourse not. Equally silly it would be. Or should I say at Tier 10 some BB captains still have not found the WADS keys?

 

Now WoW is far from realistic, but they try to hang on to the imagination that it is. Go look up the Battle of Surigao Strait (October 1944). The Japanese fleet ran into a screen of 28 US destroyers and 39 US motor torpedo boats unleashing a wall of torps. Actually in the whole Battle of Leyte dd's and mtb played quite a significant role. In these battles there was not a 'so called torp spam'. There was one, and those torps were real. That is were the Fuso got torped to death.

 

Anyways. I think they should not have nerfed anyting, and instead should have worked on a better mm and avoid having battles with 10 dd's.

 

 

[GhostRiderMax123]

 

It is a stuborn assumtion that somehow almost made it to be considered a fact. I think there is no torpedo spam. And if there was one, it surely is over by now. Unless you consider it spam every time you see more than 2 waves of torps... Or you simply dont want to see torps in the game... Or should we also consider all the HE shells a spam? So much of them!... Ofcourse not. Equally silly it would be. Or should I say at Tier 10 some BB captains still have not found the WADS keys?

 

Now WoW is far from realistic, but they try to hang on to the imagination that it is. Go look up the Battle of Surigao Strait (October 1944). The Japanese fleet ran into a screen of 28 US destroyers and 39 US motor torpedo boats unleashing a wall of torps. Actually in the whole Battle of Leyte dd's and mtb played quite a significant role. In these battles there was not a 'so called torp spam'. There was one, and those torps were real. That is were the Fuso got torped to death.

 

Anyways. I think they should not have nerfed anyting, and instead should have worked on a better mm and avoid having battles with 10 dd's.

 

 

 

I will agree with you on the mm it could do with some improvement. As for looking up a battle no thanks personally I could not care less about something the US navy did sorry but it just does not interest me at all. 

[Elenortirion]

 

I will agree with you on the mm it could do with some improvement. As for looking up a battle no thanks personally I could not care less about something the US navy did sorry but it just does not interest me at all. 

 

ironically enought they've done more mischief than factuall damage, throwing that taskforce into chaos for a brief moment and making its commander believing that they have encountered full USN forces....

 

which is ironically to the point that if they realised at that point that main forces got into the CV chase [as plan assumed] they could have achieve at least some of their strategical goals in the battle